Any love for rangefinders?

stevebrot · 02-21-2013, 02:42 PM

Originally posted by Nesster

Sorry about your health, hope you'll recover completely. The Contax is a wonderful camera, perhaps the best ever mechanical camera, though it was being made obsolete by Leica advancements. It takes a bit of work to get used to, but using one I find very fun indeed.

What he said (on all counts)

Steve

hks_kansei · 02-21-2013, 02:53 PM

The thing I like about my rangefinder is that it's different.

Plain and simple.

The Pentax SLRs are wonderful cameras, so easy to use, such wonderful images.

But the rangefinder is great fun simply because it's so quirky and slow to use. Loading film by removing the camera back, and the spool. Check focus by a strange yellow picture that lines up with the scene, remember that the scene is slightly offset to the viewfinder. Take the image without the viewfinder blacking out.

If I'm honest, the rangefinder system is pretty shit, it's counterintuitive, extremely limited in it's use, and unnecessarily complicated. BUT, for those exact reasons it's fun.

Mine is a 1958 Zorki4

tuco · 02-21-2013, 03:22 PM

Originally posted by hks_kansei

...
If I'm honest, the rangefinder system is pretty shit, it's counterintuitive, extremely limited in it's use, and unnecessarily complicated. BUT, for those exact reasons it's fun.

Mine is a 1958 Zorki4

It's not easy to generalize a rangefinder that bad. In medium format, a rangefinder has some strong points at the expense of others things which is not any different than other MF film camera offerings.

They say without a mirror, lenses have the potential to be really good. Rangefinders in medium format have much smaller lenses too, lighter bodies and quiet leaf shutter lenses. You can shoot a large majority of what any other MF camera can do. It's all about using one where it works best. So if you do a lot of telephoto and/or macro work, for example, a rangefinder is a poor choice. But for all the shooting that is like street photography, it is a fine choice.

hks_kansei · 02-21-2013, 05:13 PM

Perhaps I was too harsh, but to me it's just a much less flexible system.

The wonder of the SLR is that it can do almost anything, large zoom to shoot the moon, tiny macro to shoot a fly, attach to a microscope to shoot microbes, fisheye to shoot 180deg, etc.
It's a wonderfully flexible system.

To me, the rangefinder system offers no real benefits over an SLR, with a lot of detriment in flexibility.

(do note that I'm only talking 35mm here, I've never used medium format in any form)

stevebrot · 02-21-2013, 10:08 PM

Originally posted by hks_kansei

The wonder of the SLR is that it can do almost anything, large zoom to shoot the moon, tiny macro to shoot a fly, attach to a microscope to shoot microbes, fisheye to shoot 180deg, etc.
It's a wonderfully flexible system.

And that is a good part of why rangefinder cameras fell from favor with enthusiasts, though it would be good to point out that the consumer 35mm camera market was dominated by rangefinder cams right up until the early 1980s. At that time they were eclipsed by high quality AF compact P&S and lower-end SLRs.

So why shoot with one? I for one really enjoy the experience. I tend to shoot differently and "see" differently with my FED or Zorki or Kiev or Canon P or Yashica Lynx or Olympus XA than I do with any of my SLRs. Framing is less precise, so I tend to not frame so carefully. Focus is more of a pain so I tend to pre-focus and/or shoot the hyperfocal. Exposure is fully manual using a handheld meter (except for the XA) so I tend to meter once and shoot until the light changes. The results are a world away from what I normally come home with. Some of my best shots from the last couple of years were made with one of the above cameras.

Steve

(...at the far end of the spectrum for usability is the view camera...and yes, I shoot and "see" differently with that one too! Would love to have a medium format rangefinder, but $$$)

hks_kansei · 02-21-2013, 10:20 PM

Originally posted by stevebrot

So why shoot with one? I for one really enjoy the experience. I tend to shoot differently and "see" differently with my FED or Zorki or Kiev or Canon P or Yashica Lynx or Olympus XA than I do with any of my SLRs. Framing is less precise, so I tend to not frame so carefully. Focus is more of a pain so I tend to pre-focus and/or shoot the hyperfocal. Exposure is fully manual using a handheld meter (except for the XA) so I tend to meter once and shoot until the light changes. The results are a world away from what I normally come home with. Some of my best shots from the last couple of years were made with one of the above cameras.

And that's exactly why I use mine as well.

Because it's so odd it helps me keep from falling into the same habits with my photos, it forces me to think differently.

It's the same reason I switch between my cameras, Zorki (w/Jupiter8 50mmF2), SP1000 (w/135mm F3.5 preset lens and damaged aperture), ME (K mount), *istDS (K mount)

Each one requires me to shoot a different way, they force me to learn to work around, or with, each camera's foibles.

Bogie · 02-24-2013, 06:08 AM

New to the thread - got into rangefinders only a short time ago and currently shooting an Argus C3 and a Canon QL17 GIII - man the Canon is quiet! Firing my 645n sounds like an earthquake compared to the QL...or maybe I just had a temporary loss of hearing after shooting the 645! Just finished my first roll through both camera and looking forward to seeing the results when I find the time to get into the dark room.

On another note, anyone have any experience with the Canon? I have a battery that works, and the camera fires properly when set to "A"/auto (which it will not do without the battery), yet the meter does not respond to light when set to manual mode...

Attached Images

Last edited by Bogie; 02-24-2013 at 06:14 AM.

**ChrisPlatt** · 02-24-2013, 06:24 AM

When your film SLR's viewfinder blacks out you can only hope that you got the shot...

Chris

**lmd91343** · 02-24-2013, 10:03 AM

I have that camera.

It is functioning properly. You must meter in auto then move to manual. PIA. However, nIce camera and lens.

Manual
http://www.cameramanuals.org/canon_pdf/canonet_g-iii_17.pdf

lesmore49 · 02-24-2013, 08:32 PM

Leica 11f and Zeiss Ikon Super Ikonta B are my two rangefinders.

**arnold** · 02-24-2013, 11:43 PM

Just love the range finders. These Retinas are like dainty jewels. Although this one doesn't have a range finder on it, it is probably my favourite Retina (out of a dozen Retinas and Retinettes). It has a light meter uncoupled, and a large view finder which the older models lack. I have little trouble guessing distances, so a quick confirmation of sunny 16 on the light meter, and the softest click lets you know the picture has been taken. While the "C" models have the more expensive 5 element Zenon lenses, the Zenar looks every bit as good to me taking very sharp pictures.

Bogie · 02-25-2013, 05:03 AM

Originally posted by lmd91343

I have that camera.

It is functioning properly. You must meter in auto then move to manual. PIA. However, nIce camera and lens.

Manual
http://www.cameramanuals.org/canon_pdf/canonet_g-iii_17.pdf

Thanks for the info and the link, Lance!

VisualDarkness · 08-11-2015, 08:41 AM - **1 Like**

I will use some black magic and bring back this thread from the abyss for some rangey love.

Some Contax IIa shots!

Helios-103 50mm F1.8
TMax 400 + D76 + TMax fixer + Epson v600

**arnold** · 08-12-2015, 05:34 AM

Originally posted by VisualDarkness

I will use some black magic and bring back this thread from the abyss for some rangey love.

Some Contax IIa shots!

Helios-103 50mm F1.8
TMax 400 + D76 + TMax fixer + Epson v600

Those are good. Got to love the range/viewfinders, they have a very different feel and are so very quiet. I have heard that because they have the lens closer to the film (no mirror in the way), it improves image quality.

02-24-2013, 06:24 AM	#413
ChrisPlatt Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Rockaway Beach NYC Posts: 7,692	Advantage: Rangefinder When your film SLR's viewfinder blacks out you can only hope that you got the shot... Chris

02-24-2013, 11:43 PM	#416
arnold Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Queensland Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,294	Just love the range finders. These Retinas are like dainty jewels. Although this one doesn't have a range finder on it, it is probably my favourite Retina (out of a dozen Retinas and Retinettes). It has a light meter uncoupled, and a large view finder which the older models lack. I have little trouble guessing distances, so a quick confirmation of sunny 16 on the light meter, and the softest click lets you know the picture has been taken. While the "C" models have the more expensive 5 element Zenon lenses, the Zenar looks every bit as good to me taking very sharp pictures. Attached Images

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02-21-2013, 02:42 PM	#406
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by Nesster Sorry about your health, hope you'll recover completely. The Contax is a wonderful camera, perhaps the best ever mechanical camera, though it was being made obsolete by Leica advancements. It takes a bit of work to get used to, but using one I find very fun indeed. What he said (on all counts) Steve

02-21-2013, 02:53 PM	#407
hks_kansei Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 834	The thing I like about my rangefinder is that it's different. Plain and simple. The Pentax SLRs are wonderful cameras, so easy to use, such wonderful images. But the rangefinder is great fun simply because it's so quirky and slow to use. Loading film by removing the camera back, and the spool. Check focus by a strange yellow picture that lines up with the scene, remember that the scene is slightly offset to the viewfinder. Take the image without the viewfinder blacking out. If I'm honest, the rangefinder system is pretty shit, it's counterintuitive, extremely limited in it's use, and unnecessarily complicated. BUT, for those exact reasons it's fun. Mine is a 1958 Zorki4

02-21-2013, 03:22 PM	#408
tuco Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Pugetopolis Posts: 11,024	Originally posted by hks_kansei ... If I'm honest, the rangefinder system is pretty shit, it's counterintuitive, extremely limited in it's use, and unnecessarily complicated. BUT, for those exact reasons it's fun. Mine is a 1958 Zorki4 It's not easy to generalize a rangefinder that bad. In medium format, a rangefinder has some strong points at the expense of others things which is not any different than other MF film camera offerings. They say without a mirror, lenses have the potential to be really good. Rangefinders in medium format have much smaller lenses too, lighter bodies and quiet leaf shutter lenses. You can shoot a large majority of what any other MF camera can do. It's all about using one where it works best. So if you do a lot of telephoto and/or macro work, for example, a rangefinder is a poor choice. But for all the shooting that is like street photography, it is a fine choice.

02-21-2013, 05:13 PM	#409
hks_kansei Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 834	Perhaps I was too harsh, but to me it's just a much less flexible system. The wonder of the SLR is that it can do almost anything, large zoom to shoot the moon, tiny macro to shoot a fly, attach to a microscope to shoot microbes, fisheye to shoot 180deg, etc. It's a wonderfully flexible system. To me, the rangefinder system offers no real benefits over an SLR, with a lot of detriment in flexibility. (do note that I'm only talking 35mm here, I've never used medium format in any form)

02-21-2013, 10:08 PM	#410
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by hks_kansei The wonder of the SLR is that it can do almost anything, large zoom to shoot the moon, tiny macro to shoot a fly, attach to a microscope to shoot microbes, fisheye to shoot 180deg, etc. It's a wonderfully flexible system. And that is a good part of why rangefinder cameras fell from favor with enthusiasts, though it would be good to point out that the consumer 35mm camera market was dominated by rangefinder cams right up until the early 1980s. At that time they were eclipsed by high quality AF compact P&S and lower-end SLRs. So why shoot with one? I for one really enjoy the experience. I tend to shoot differently and "see" differently with my FED or Zorki or Kiev or Canon P or Yashica Lynx or Olympus XA than I do with any of my SLRs. Framing is less precise, so I tend to not frame so carefully. Focus is more of a pain so I tend to pre-focus and/or shoot the hyperfocal. Exposure is fully manual using a handheld meter (except for the XA) so I tend to meter once and shoot until the light changes. The results are a world away from what I normally come home with. Some of my best shots from the last couple of years were made with one of the above cameras. Steve (...at the far end of the spectrum for usability is the view camera...and yes, I shoot and "see" differently with that one too! Would love to have a medium format rangefinder, but $$$)

02-21-2013, 10:20 PM	#411
hks_kansei Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 834	Originally posted by stevebrot So why shoot with one? I for one really enjoy the experience. I tend to shoot differently and "see" differently with my FED or Zorki or Kiev or Canon P or Yashica Lynx or Olympus XA than I do with any of my SLRs. Framing is less precise, so I tend to not frame so carefully. Focus is more of a pain so I tend to pre-focus and/or shoot the hyperfocal. Exposure is fully manual using a handheld meter (except for the XA) so I tend to meter once and shoot until the light changes. The results are a world away from what I normally come home with. Some of my best shots from the last couple of years were made with one of the above cameras. And that's exactly why I use mine as well. Because it's so odd it helps me keep from falling into the same habits with my photos, it forces me to think differently. It's the same reason I switch between my cameras, Zorki (w/Jupiter8 50mmF2), SP1000 (w/135mm F3.5 preset lens and damaged aperture), ME (K mount), *istDS (K mount) Each one requires me to shoot a different way, they force me to learn to work around, or with, each camera's foibles.

02-24-2013, 06:08 AM	#412
Bogie Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Texas Photos: Gallery Posts: 228	New to the thread - got into rangefinders only a short time ago and currently shooting an Argus C3 and a Canon QL17 GIII - man the Canon is quiet! Firing my 645n sounds like an earthquake compared to the QL...or maybe I just had a temporary loss of hearing after shooting the 645! Just finished my first roll through both camera and looking forward to seeing the results when I find the time to get into the dark room. On another note, anyone have any experience with the Canon? I have a battery that works, and the camera fires properly when set to "A"/auto (which it will not do without the battery), yet the meter does not respond to light when set to manual mode... Attached Images Last edited by Bogie; 02-24-2013 at 06:14 AM.

02-24-2013, 10:03 AM	#414
lmd91343 Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Los Angeles, CA USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,027	I have that camera. It is functioning properly. You must meter in auto then move to manual. PIA. However, nIce camera and lens. Manual http://www.cameramanuals.org/canon_pdf/canonet_g-iii_17.pdf

02-24-2013, 08:32 PM	#415
lesmore49 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Western Canada Posts: 12,337	Leica 11f and Zeiss Ikon Super Ikonta B are my two rangefinders.

02-25-2013, 05:03 AM	#417
Bogie Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Texas Photos: Gallery Posts: 228	Originally posted by lmd91343 I have that camera. It is functioning properly. You must meter in auto then move to manual. PIA. However, nIce camera and lens. Manual http://www.cameramanuals.org/canon_pdf/canonet_g-iii_17.pdf Thanks for the info and the link, Lance!

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08-11-2015, 08:41 AM - 1 Like	#418
VisualDarkness Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Uppsala, Sweden Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,439	I will use some black magic and bring back this thread from the abyss for some rangey love. Some Contax IIa shots! Helios-103 50mm F1.8 TMax 400 + D76 + TMax fixer + Epson v600

08-12-2015, 05:34 AM	#419
arnold Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Queensland Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,294	Originally posted by VisualDarkness I will use some black magic and bring back this thread from the abyss for some rangey love. Some Contax IIa shots! Helios-103 50mm F1.8 TMax 400 + D76 + TMax fixer + Epson v600 Those are good. Got to love the range/viewfinders, they have a very different feel and are so very quiet. I have heard that because they have the lens closer to the film (no mirror in the way), it improves image quality.