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05-21-2011, 10:06 PM   #1
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Question for Sigma/Foveon....

Dear Sigma, please appraise my K-5. and tell me what its worth - thx

Pentax K-5, ISO800, 25MP from RAW/DNG
Overview:


Pre-post crop(30%):


Pre-post crop(60%):


Sigma SD1:


Processed crop:


The most notable being, that this K-5 file was shot at ISO800 and that there is overhead left in image for sharpening at 100%. So.. for me, the price/performance aspect of the SD1 really doesn't work out. Especially... were the output really doesn't seem to effectively justify the means.
Whatever the case, I doubt we can pass judgement until we've seen RAW files from the unit. There just isn't enough information from the limited JPG's posted to date to draw any sound conclusions from. However... with that's seen here, I'd say that its really not looking that good for the SD1.

Having said that: Pentax K-5 on sale: $10999.99

PS.this was a throwaway K-5 shot at ISO800 and developed at 25MP. We didn't like the outcome and effect of the silver eyeliner(blood shot eyes and highlights and so we scrapped it. However... I found the framing and size to be quite similar to one of the SD1 demo image and so I thought it would make a neat comparison.

Cheers.
JohnB


Last edited by JohnBee; 05-21-2011 at 11:06 PM.
05-22-2011, 08:29 AM   #2
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aren't you just comparing sharpness, mostly an effect of the lens used, not the sensor, though?
05-22-2011, 09:03 AM   #3
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Sharpness is directly effected by aliasing caused by the bayer pattern, a "problem" Sigma solves with Foveon.
Color rendition is also claimed to be improved (at least at low ISO), although the K-5 color rendition is pretty good too!

I think the point here isn't just sharpness, but the fact that other APS-C cameras offer arguably similar performance at 1/10th the price.

In my opinion, the jury is still out on the Sigma. But if it was truly earth shattering then Sigma would have already released many sample RAW files to impress the world. They may find some improvement over bayer sensors, but probably not enough to justify the ridiculous price tag.
05-22-2011, 10:19 PM   #4
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I'm not sure if Sigma somehow taken the 46MP resolution out of context a bit too far. although some people assumed (myself included) that it would be close to MF quality or atleast as far as resolution goes with older MF cameras (not the recent ones). I didn't specifically say that it would be MF level but rather a pseudo-MF type (better or above what FF dslrs could offer right now).

personally, I was greatly stunned as well considering that the supposed price was then would play at around $1,400 - $1,800. I'm not sure what made Sigma decide to advertise it by 6 folds without any clue or hint, not to mention real justification of it's worth. when the SD1 was on demo last year, nobody really knows what it is really capable of. actually, it was more of a mystery and left us dumbfounded rather than people having a good idea on what to expect from the camera, except for the advertised spec and marketing. so it was a poor advertising job done by the Sigma reps while the Fuji crew did a marvelous job on promoting their X100.

certainly, I don't know where the $10,000 price tag came from considering their people announced it to be around the 7D price point. I would say that someone made a grave mistake and possibly their marketing consultants have to do with it. it is a disaster to be honest and a big one. the price announcement has somehow brought down the Sigma market collapsing in one big swoop. loss of total (majority) of potential consumers of the SD1, sales of Sigma SA mount lenses, and loss of confidence in the brand. Sigma practically destroyed itself even before they made a significance to the dslr market. I dunno if it's greed or outright stupidity, but either way, stupidity in general. if Sigma doesn't do something about this asap, they would continue to lose more of the market share as the day goes by. if I were them, I would announce the price as was originally planned. keeping the price would be committing suicide. they shouldn't even bother cutting the price by half as there is no market for the SD1 at that price range as well. one more mistake and they're done.

05-23-2011, 06:57 AM   #5
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Indeed...its sad watching the number of previously hardcore committed posters in the Sigma dpreview forums talk of quiting Sigma. Even the most connected photographers (the ones that took the sample pictures) are baffled at this decision.

If Sigma doesn't both lower the price and release better samples (sans massive bad pixels and other IQ issues), then I'm afraid Sigma won't be making many more cameras.

JohnBee, excellent sample and comparison. Nice to see what the K-5 can produce!
05-24-2011, 01:32 PM   #6
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Sigma SD1 $6,899

Pentax 645D $9,995.95

The lenses are another matter.

(pricing based on BH)


QuoteOriginally posted by jeffshaddix Quote
Indeed...its sad watching the number of previously hardcore committed posters in the Sigma dpreview forums talk of quiting Sigma. Even the most connected photographers (the ones that took the sample pictures) are baffled at this decision.

If Sigma doesn't both lower the price and release better samples (sans massive bad pixels and other IQ issues), then I'm afraid Sigma won't be making many more cameras.

JohnBee, excellent sample and comparison. Nice to see what the K-5 can produce!

+1 bigthumbsup
06-02-2011, 10:34 AM   #7
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As an owner of an SD14, (and k10d and k7), I can't even fathom that they have made that many drastic changes to improve functionality and image quality, to justify a 7000.00 price tag. As someone else posted, I would more than shell out a few thousand more to get the medium format 645d. I would say Sigma is crazy… but truly, those who buy it will be the only crazy ones out there. I really hate the 46MP misrepresentation as well. Although, hopefully if you are spending that much on a camera you will do your research to discover what that really means in Sigma terms.


Last edited by NewTake; 06-02-2011 at 10:35 AM. Reason: misspelling
06-02-2011, 01:41 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by NewTake Quote
As an owner of an SD14, (and k10d and k7), I can't even fathom that they have made that many drastic changes to improve functionality and image quality, to justify a 7000.00 price tag. As someone else posted, I would more than shell out a few thousand more to get the medium format 645d. I would say Sigma is crazy… but truly, those who buy it will be the only crazy ones out there. I really hate the 46MP misrepresentation as well. Although, hopefully if you are spending that much on a camera you will do your research to discover what that really means in Sigma terms.
the least thing that Sigma could had done is to atleast disclose to the public early as what to expect from the camera and it's capabilities are, and not to surprise the public afterwards. I think everyone is still in a state of shock and at a loss considering the supposed 7D competitor is suddenly priced around MF territory. samples had been so far are limited and unsatisfactory and it's difficult to judge how good the camera would be. maybe if Sigma decides to release some better samples, preferably RAW inorder to see or validate it's superior IQ over other cameras, then people would understand or atleast concur with the SD1 price tag. but right now, it's all speculation and would continue to do so especially if the price would hamper the purchasing power of the common consumer.
06-08-2011, 05:55 PM   #9
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Yeah, the last minute price change is inexcusable. The SD1 was not something I was really excited about but I feel for all the Sigma shooters who held onto their old gear in hopes the SD1 would be what they expected...

Plus, the images are not very convincing so far. The older Sigma gear really had some magic going, but I wonder if maybe they pushed the Foveon too far with this one, I really do not see the 3D pop and fantastic clarity I get out of my DP2 in the images I have seen so far.
06-12-2011, 12:26 PM   #10
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eventhough I'm very disappointed and somehow been down low on the SD1, I looked at some of the more recent real-world use of the SD1. so far, it has been a mixed bag. there are some negs to consider like underwhelming or yet average results. I dunno if this was due to user error, bugs, really a downside of the Foveon sensor, or just plain ignorance on the part of the reader of what seems to be negative, is just normal for such sensor and the same for others or even yet, way better what other cameras could even hope for. however, one thing is certain is that it has a heck of a lot of details for an APS-C sized sensor which was deemed to possess a native 15MP sensor. it does look to have more than what a 20+MP Bayer sensor could offer, also way sharper and renders better as well. I also love the colors a lot.

I now think that perhaps Sigma does have something in the SD1 indeed. it's just too bad that a lot of us won't be able to afford it. maybe I'm going Samsung instead.
06-12-2011, 06:02 PM   #11
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One problem remains though and that is that even if the sensor turns out to be pretty awesome what you end up with is an awesome sensor in most likely a mediocre body with buggy firmware. As much as I like the output of my DP2 and that I have seen from SD14/SD15, the Sigma camera bodies seem like they came out of the late 90s at best. Doubt the SD1 will be radically different in that aspect.
06-12-2011, 06:32 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by pingflood Quote
One problem remains though and that is that even if the sensor turns out to be pretty awesome what you end up with is an awesome sensor in most likely a mediocre body with buggy firmware. As much as I like the output of my DP2 and that I have seen from SD14/SD15, the Sigma camera bodies seem like they came out of the late 90s at best. Doubt the SD1 will be radically different in that aspect.
if the body and ergo is something like the K7/K5, I could live with that. I do agree that a bug fix seems necessary to fix some of the issues raised by some pixel peepers. one of which is banding. aside from that, I haven't seen some problematic noise that needs to be addressed yet. although there had been a lot of full image jpeg samples that are already available, some RAW samples would be good inorder to see the full extent of the sensor's capability and see it's limits. I just downloaded a RAW sample from one of the bloggers. but I have yet to install a program that is compatible with the Sigma RAW.
06-12-2011, 07:09 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxor Quote
if the body and ergo is something like the K7/K5, I could live with that. I do agree that a bug fix seems necessary to fix some of the issues raised by some pixel peepers. one of which is banding. aside from that, I haven't seen some problematic noise that needs to be addressed yet. although there had been a lot of full image jpeg samples that are already available, some RAW samples would be good inorder to see the full extent of the sensor's capability and see it's limits. I just downloaded a RAW sample from one of the bloggers. but I have yet to install a program that is compatible with the Sigma RAW.
Both Lightroom 2 and Lightroom 3 support Sigma raw files. Aperture doesn't. Sigma Photo Pro is a free download also.
06-12-2011, 07:31 PM   #14
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2 things remain . . . 1) $7000 and 2) is it still a 1.7x factor sensor?
06-12-2011, 09:15 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
2 things remain . . . 1) $7000 and 2) is it still a 1.7x factor sensor?
first one is a killer. second one is actually 1.5x which is fine for someone who doesn't necessarily use ultra-shallow DOF. besides, if one was to get the best out of the detail from the camera, aren't they suppose to stop-down and get everything in focus? this might be a challenge for those doing landscapes, although not impossible to use for.
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