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05-31-2012, 04:59 PM   #16
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I didn't know I had hopes for a FF.

05-31-2012, 06:19 PM   #17
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I expect this is the year where we see a FF Nikon at a lower price point, and lower spec then their top tier APS-c.

I would not be surprised to see the D600 at $1,500 to $1,700 and then a top tier D400 (aps-c) at $1,800.

We have already seen the 5D mkII at under $2,000 with a rebate.
05-31-2012, 06:25 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by TomTextura Quote
@jsherman999 That analysis makes a lot of sense. If the powers that be over at Pentax are in agreement then a FF Pentax body is imminent.
Yes, I agree, this analysis was well put.
05-31-2012, 06:51 PM   #19
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The potential FF will difinitely disturb the balance of current DLSR market. It makes sense to wait for a not-so-expensive K5 successor. Really appreciate that.

05-31-2012, 07:35 PM   #20
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Peter, you make some strong arguments against new FF developments and in many ways this might be true. Though I don't consider the big two already capitalising on the FF market as enough reason for Pentax to shy away from developing their own FF camera. You've mentioned profit margins for the rumoured D600 should it indeed be a budget FF camera, and even if in the sub $2k range it poses no threat to a $2,300-$2,500 Pentax FF for a couple of reasons:

1. It's a K-mount FF camera that all the FA and DFA (perhaps even some DA lenses) can mount onto and work with AF. Much better than mounting the lenses onto a 5DMkIII or D700/800 just to get FF results (which we do see happen). Existing Pentax users will not only be the market target, but the current FF users of the big two brands won't be (nor would we expect that they ever will be).

2. This FF camera will not be stripped-down and will offer so much more than the rumoured D600 that those in the market for a FF camera will look favourably upon the Pentax FF because of its weather sealing, its UI, its good ergonomics and build moreso than the D600's price point.

Pentax haven't made a bare-bones dSLR to date, and I don't see them doing this now (I wouldn't be buying it just because it's FF). If Pentax are going to enter the FF market, they'd be expending significant resources and investment to make it a success. A FF camera building on the strengths of the K-5, with even better AF and P-TTL systems, and the usual features and compatibilities as their previous cameras, would be a great success in my book. But I don't work for Pentax R&D, so this is all just a random opinion.
06-01-2012, 05:17 AM   #21
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Under $2,000 full frame dslrs already happened...

My 5DII bought in mid December 2011 cost me $1,999. It came with a lowepro bag shoulder bag, 16GB Sandisk Extreme III Pro card and video editing software tossed in for free. B&H said the gift bag was a $720 value.

Seeing Canikon Holiday deals repeat every year since 2007 I'm limiting most of my imaging gear purchases to just the two weeks before Christmas.
Both Nikon and Canon get serious about making unit sales and drop their MAP pricing year after year for the Holidays.


I suspect I'll get another brand new D700 this Holiday season bundled with a Nanocoat 24-70 f2.8 this time for I'll guess $300-$400 off instant rebate. Plus rumors says both D700 and 5DII will drop to $1999 msrp before they drop off the system. Thus I assume I'll see a tidy $600+ savings waiting till mid December.

Both Canon and Nikon compete in the $2,199 price slot and both are instock:

Canon EOS 5D Mark II Digital Camera (Body Only) 2764B003 B&H

Nikon D700 SLR Digital Camera (Body Only) 25444 B&H Photo Video





QuoteOriginally posted by KungPOW Quote
I expect this is the year where we see a FF Nikon at a lower price point, and lower spec then their top tier APS-c.

I would not be surprised to see the D600 at $1,500 to $1,700 and then a top tier D400 (aps-c) at $1,800.

We have already seen the 5D mkII at under $2,000 with a rebate.

Last edited by Samsungian; 06-01-2012 at 05:29 AM.
06-03-2012, 06:15 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by Samsungian Quote
Both Canon and Nikon compete in the $2,199 price slot and both are instock:
You are presenting superceded FF cameras and their current price points.
This is not an adequate comparison to what a new Pentax FF camera will cost when it is first released.
Better off considering the MSRP when these cameras were first being sold in retail stores.

06-03-2012, 07:44 AM   #23
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Every year that population increases - and also as wealth increases in areas throughout the world (even in places like rural China); more and more people are becoming interested in photography.

Is Pentax seeing their sales numbers increase, much?

Because for every month that Pentax does the following three items - their sales "technically" will decrease and they'll lose sales to the competition.


So what three things...
1. Get the word out about the Pentax name; in advertising, press releases, rentals, etc.
2. Get the product into stores where customers can see it and even use it.
3. Get any version of a full-frame out there. Even professionals are jumping ship (either all together or partally) because they need a full frame that perhaps is also not medium format.
06-05-2012, 01:31 AM   #24
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Yup, the sub $2000 FF cameras are already here. If anything Canon and Nikon will rebadge the 5DII and D700 this year and perhaps add a few things so they don't seem like "old" cameras. (Video to the D700 and better AF to the 5DII to name a few).

Realistically, I don't know how much downward pressure these will really have on APS-C. These budget FFs probably won't have the durability, weather sealing, and FPS/etc of the higher end APS-Cs. Besides, many folks buy into the cropped format because of the increased reach it gives their lenses.

I think Pentax could compete if if makes a knock-out-of the park FF. (Smaller body with WR, and excellent IQ and AF).
06-05-2012, 03:04 AM   #25
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Sb, I think you spiked your coffee a bit too much.

Canon isn't going to re-release the 5DMKII If they decide on a cheaper FF body, it will be a new sensor and design. Fixing the AF would be an admission there was a problem in the first place. Ain't gonna happen.

Nikon won't and can't re-release the D700. Where would they get the sensors from? This is a 2007 design, released in 2008 and we're now 4 years later. Sony have moved on with higher density sensors and won't keep producing an already 5 year old sensor for 2-4 more years. Doing so simply isn't profitable. Particularly if the D600 is going to be 24MP as rumoured. A D700s at 12MP would be an orphan in the line. They won't simply drop a different sensor in it either or add video. It's not that simple and would take a complete redesign.
06-05-2012, 09:13 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by Peter Zack Quote
Sb, I think you spiked your coffee a bit too much.

Canon isn't going to re-release the 5DMKII If they decide on a cheaper FF body, it will be a new sensor and design. Fixing the AF would be an admission there was a problem in the first place. Ain't gonna happen.
Clearly they won't release the same models, but I'm just saying....they already have sub $2000 bodies (heck, the 5DII can be had for $1750 or lower directly refurbished). I would think they'd be drawing on that slightly old tech heavily to produce something even cheaper. (Say, throw a bunch of the 5DII parts in a large Rebel body for instance). Possibly use the same sensor as it is already several years old.
06-05-2012, 11:36 AM   #27
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Having shot few times with nikon d700 recently I should admit that 1500 dollars full frame nikon may finally tip me over...
06-05-2012, 11:52 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by Boris Quote
Having shot few times with nikon d700 recently I should admit that 1500 dollars full frame nikon may finally tip me over...
I can believe the rumoured feature set for the D600 it's enough of a drop from the D800 to avoid hurting sales on that model (and in fact to relieve some of the inventory issues as well) I have doubts about $1500 if it is anything other than an apsc replacement for the D700/D300 in one unit. 1999 OTOH if it is FF is a highly probably price point. whether it is a 1500 or 1999 ff they will sell as many as they can supply, so why leave $500 on the table and kill any model above the d5200, while leaving a huge gap to the D800. anything less than 1999 is bad marketing unless it's actually an apsc unit
@ 1500 the line ends up being d3200/d5200/d600/d800/800e/d4 it misses at least 1 apsc above the d5200 but a 1500 ff makes a 1200 apsc with the same feature set a very tough sell, not to mention a new model of the d7000 would likely come in higher then drop as it ages

so realistically this looks better d3200/d5200/d7200/d600/d800/d4 or $700/$900/$1300/1999/3000/6000
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