Originally posted by tele_pathic After reading your responses to your original post, it seems like you're being anti-elitist, or hipster-snobbish. In other words, I'm not sure I understand the point of your OP and your subsequent responses to, what seem to me, legitimate responses. If you complain about not giving answers to your questions, it seems like your only response to disliking/hating the Leica is that you don't understand the need to spend $8,000 on a camera. To which I say, until you've shot one, it's difficult to encapsulate the experience. And yes, digirev seemed torn, but he also seemed super concerned about the price tag too.
I'd say I'm anti-esotericism. When someone inquires how long I've been into photography because I asked how a camera that isn't the top of the line in hardly any, if any, specifications or any other comparable metrics commands an $8,000 price tag, that screams of esoteric arrogance.
I genuinely was interested in the film Leica models and was reading about them and some history. The prices of the older models, even the III's are fairly high, likely due to their collectability, and when I used the Google function to look up the Leica MP, I had no idea what their model system numbering was like, I was surprised to see a used body at $4,500 - $5,000. So, my inquiring mind wants to know what is it about these bodies that draws these prices. The reputation and responses here have focused on the lenses.
My earlier responses were to someone who acted as if I'm not qualified or entitled to ask questions about these cameras because he perceived me as a newb. I get the concept of precision and refinement, I was curious as to what is that special something that makes people pay these prices? You have to sell a lot of photographs or jobs to make up the difference between the top of the line gear from other brands of the film days.
I think the same concept applies with today's digital cameras - are Canon's L-series lenses really worth their price tag? Probably only if you're doing something that requires their capabilities. Ed at PhotoUniverse discusses that when talking about shooting sports. He has a video comparing the prices of the Pentax system with DA/FA Limiteds compared to the Leica system. Came out to under $4,000 or less for Pentax and nearly $20,000 for the Leica system and he goes back and forth with whether or not you could see a difference in image quality.
That's the point of my question - are Leica's products good enough to warrant that kind of difference in price? Is the rangefinder experience worth that premium? Or are we talking about the last ten thousandth of an inch on the scale of best possible image quality? From 35mm no less...
Maybe I need to answer this for myself some day and grab an old film Leica and run a few rolls through it. Nothing posted here has even began to budge the scales about their digital cameras. It's very likely it's a different conversation if I made a living with photography, but when I see what people can produce with non-$8,000 camera bodies, it's hard to even consider it, even in the fantasy world of I'm a pro photographer. I'd almost certainly want to go the medium format route with that kind of money.
---------- Post added 03-03-14 at 09:22 PM ----------
Originally posted by reeftool Leica has always made quality products and it's lenses are excellent. The big question is whether they really are worth the price premium. As always, are those "best images" the result of the camera or the photographer? The closest I will come to a Leica is the Panasonic LF 1 I own with a Leica branded lens. It's half the price of the same camera with a Leica brand which raises serious questions about the price premium.
This is what I'm getting at. Is it the name that adds on significant price?
Quote: I suppose you can apply the argument to any premium brand. Why ride a Harley? Or Ducati? Drive a Mercedes? A John Deere lawnmower? If you can afford it, why not?
I wouldn't call a Harley a premium brand. It's popular and has some history, but there are other American bike brands that may exceed Harley in quality. Harley has brand recognition and charges premium prices for anything with their brand on it. Harley went from a biker's bike to something entirely different. See the movie Wild Hogs. When Harley guys mock other bikes just because it's not a Harley, that's the kind of brand thing I'm talking about.
I'm looking at it from the other way around, as should anyone who wants to make money - at least that's been my experience being self-employed - if a tool can get the job done equally, or indistinguishably close enough, why pay two - three times as much because of the brand name?
To a degree, you get what you pay for applies, but that's typically when comparing the bottom of the barrel option; it may not apply when comparing the more than capable product to the most expensive product. Notice I didn't say most capable or best as I don't agree that most expensive = best.