A Mirrorless Body for use with Legacy Glass?

**UncleVanya** · 07-19-2016, 07:31 PM

I'm lucky my mirrorless is the GX7 - I get in body image stabilization for my manual focus adapted lenses. It's not as strong as my Pentax K-3 - for two reasons (new implementation for Panasonic at the time, higher crop factor means more correction required for a given lens) - but it's very useful to have. I am happy to have IBIS since it makes it easier to shoot lower ISO for the same basic.

reh321 · 07-19-2016, 08:34 PM

Originally posted by TomB_tx

I've used cameras without stabilization for over 50 years, often down to 1/15 with a 50mm lens. I still shoot 250 and 400 mm hand-held on an A7 with no stabilization.
Yes, I have seen how it can help on my k-5, but the k-5 is still the camera I use least.
My most used digital is Leica M9 - no stabilization and mediocre ISO range, but it's my favorite for low light.
Learn good technique, and be stable yourself!

Yes, I used cameras without image stabilization for many many years also - I had to develop the skill to hand-hold the camera while taking pictures at 1/15 or slower because I was using Kodachrome 25 at places where a tripod or monopod simply was not allowed ... but a trip to visit our daughter in San Diego {March 2015} was an eyeopening experience for me. I took my Canon Rebel with a mixture of stabilized and unstabilized lenses along with my new Pentax Q-7 with its IBIS body. Although the Rebel had a much larger sensor, I found myself taking over half my pictures with the Q-7 because I was taking so many pictures in dark churches, museums, etc, and I found I trusted the Q-7 so much more after inspecting results each evening. As I become older, I will become less stable {this past weekend I noticed tremors in both my younger brother and in my wife}, but I am confident that I will be able to depend on K-body and Q-body IBIS regardless of the history of the lens I am using.

surfar · 07-20-2016, 05:38 PM

A very good option for mirrorless is Samsung ..NX300/500...NX30/20/10 if you need a viewfinder...

**Tony Belding** · 07-22-2016, 05:03 PM

I've recent gone through this dilemma myself, as I've pondered using either a Fujifilm X-T1 or a Sony Alpha A7 with older lenses, mostly M42 lenses. It's possible to get almost the full-frame field of view on the X-T1 using a focal reducer, such as the Lens Turbo or the Baveyes. Then you can use each lens with two different effective focal lengths, with or without the focal reducer. And the X-T1 does have very nice retro controls and some quite good manual focusing aids that work in the EVF.

However... The focal reducers have some pitfalls, both optical and mechanical. I am rather fond of wide and ultra-wide lenses, and the full-frame Sony presents the most direct and "pure" way of using them as they were intended to function. So, I think it's very likely that I'm going to track down a used A7 and see what I can do with it.

Sliver-Surfer · 07-22-2016, 09:36 PM

Originally posted by Tony Belding

I've recent gone through this dilemma myself, as I've pondered using either a Fujifilm X-T1 or a Sony Alpha A7 with older lenses, mostly M42 lenses. It's possible to get almost the full-frame field of view on the X-T1 using a focal reducer, such as the Lens Turbo or the Baveyes. Then you can use each lens with two different effective focal lengths, with or without the focal reducer. And the X-T1 does have very nice retro controls and some quite good manual focusing aids that work in the EVF.

However... The focal reducers have some pitfalls, both optical and mechanical. I am rather fond of wide and ultra-wide lenses, and the full-frame Sony presents the most direct and "pure" way of using them as they were intended to function. So, I think it's very likely that I'm going to track down a used A7 and see what I can do with it.

The booster , from my own test actually results in about a loss of about half to one stop of light between sony a6000 and a7 with the same lens. The booster however does Boost light a bit on aps c.

**UncleVanya** · 07-22-2016, 09:55 PM

Originally posted by Sliver-Surfer

The booster , from my own test actually results in about a loss of about half to one stop of light between sony a6000 and a7 with the same lens. The booster however does Boost light a bit on aps c.

Metabones brand or other?

pinholecam · 07-23-2016, 01:45 AM

Originally posted by butangmucat

What about the midrange Sony mirrorless? i.e. NEX-7, A6000?

No point imo.
Might as well just use a K-mount camera.
Yeah, its got focus peaking, but thats about it.
The Pentax DSLRs are much better as an image making tool imo.
YMMV of course.

The A7 is a good price (even cheaper 2nd hand), does what the NEX does with a FF image circle.
All the resolution that one really needs with that 24mp sensor too.

I'd argue against the half measure of focal reducers.
It messes with the mind.

One is left wonder if the edge sharpness and bokeh and even flare tolerance is really the lens or the focal reducer.

audiobomber · 07-23-2016, 04:54 AM

The a6000 is very capable if adapted lenses are the intent. Adapters are available for most any mount. I have K-mount adapters with aperture control, no aperture control and a speed booster (0.72 x focal length and aperture). AF adapters are available for Canon, Minolta and Sony.

Focus peaking is very sophisticated on the a6000, IQ is top drawer for APS-C, small size, excellent grip, decent controls, low price, built-in viewfinder, strong video performance. It's no fluke that it's the highest selling digital camera of all time. (I still much prefer my K-3, :-)

HopelessTogger · 07-23-2016, 06:56 AM

A used A7 or A7II is what you need. Good range of adaptor options including AF adaptors.

**Tony Belding** · 07-23-2016, 07:40 AM

Originally posted by pinholecam

No point imo.
Might as well just use a K-mount camera.
Yeah, its got focus peaking, but thats about it.
The Pentax DSLRs are much better as an image making tool imo.

Put a manual focus lens on a Pentax DSLR, then how are you going to focus it? The only good way is to install a split-prism focusing screen, and Katz Eye are out of business now, so that's a drag.

Quote:

I'd argue against the half measure of focal reducers.
It messes with the mind.

One is left wonder if the edge sharpness and bokeh and even flare tolerance is really the lens or the focal reducer.

I agree, but I think they do have their place for some people. If you are mostly shooting modern native lenses with your X-T1 (or whatever) and just want to dabble with "vintage" lenses on the side, and buying a special body just for that purpose isn't justified. . . Then the "half measure" might make good sense. For somebody who really wants to get into collecting and use those lenses, though, it does seem like the Sony A7 is the ticket.

reh321 · 07-23-2016, 06:00 PM

Originally posted by Tony Belding

Put a manual focus lens on a Pentax DSLR, then how are you going to focus it? The only good way is to install a split-prism focusing screen, and Katz Eye are out of business now, so that's a drag.

On my K-30, I turn the focus ring until the image appears to be in focus; I've noticed that the "in focus" indicator tends to come on at about the same time {but I have to admit that I've always tried to use a fairly deep DOF, so we may never know exactly how close I am}. When we visited Henry Ford's "Greenfield Village" this past May, I disciplined myself to use only an M42-mount lens on one particular day as a test to see if I could tolerate that mode of operation in case my K-30 suffered from the aperture control malady; all the pictures I took that day were in focus.

AquaDome · 07-23-2016, 07:48 PM

I only use my K-50 for manual lenses these days. I have added a "K3" focusing screen from FocusingScreen.com. Now it's just what I always wanted: a digital K1000.

HopelessTogger · 07-23-2016, 09:34 PM

Word of caution regarding getting a mirrorless for legacy glass. It doesn't stop at legacy glass. Soon you'll be buying native AF lenses for the thing.

This happened to me. It was a very expensive experience, poorly planned and ended up not really liking the gear at all. Well, some of it, ironically the cheaper body and cheapest native lens is genius (A6000 with FE 2/28, cheap and AWESOME COMBO! giving 42mm full frame equivalent)

butangmucat · 07-24-2016, 10:02 AM

Originally posted by audiobomber

I have K-mount adapters with aperture control, no aperture control and a speed booster (0.72 x focal length and aperture).

I am considering a used SMC-DA 21mm f3,2 as a modern walk-around lens. Does the adapter with aperture control allow me to stop a lens like this? And which one do you have? Thanks.

**UncleVanya** · 07-24-2016, 11:58 AM

Originally posted by butangmucat

I am considering a used SMC-DA 21mm f3,2 as a modern walk-around lens. Does the adapter with aperture control allow me to stop a lens like this? And which one do you have? Thanks.

On my GX7 I have a Fotodiox KDA adapter which allows me to control aperture continuously from wide open to fully stopped down (to the lens minimum). Be aware there are no stops shown and no calibration marks. You can however tell how much you have stopped down by the behavior of meter or by eyeballing it.

07-23-2016, 04:54 AM	#38
audiobomber Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Sudbury, Ontario Photos: Albums Posts: 6,806	The a6000 is very capable if adapted lenses are the intent. Adapters are available for most any mount. I have K-mount adapters with aperture control, no aperture control and a speed booster (0.72 x focal length and aperture). AF adapters are available for Canon, Minolta and Sony. Focus peaking is very sophisticated on the a6000, IQ is top drawer for APS-C, small size, excellent grip, decent controls, low price, built-in viewfinder, strong video performance. It's no fluke that it's the highest selling digital camera of all time. (I still much prefer my K-3, :-) Last edited by audiobomber; 07-23-2016 at 07:24 AM.

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07-19-2016, 07:31 PM	#31
UncleVanya Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2014 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 28,394	I'm lucky my mirrorless is the GX7 - I get in body image stabilization for my manual focus adapted lenses. It's not as strong as my Pentax K-3 - for two reasons (new implementation for Panasonic at the time, higher crop factor means more correction required for a given lens) - but it's very useful to have. I am happy to have IBIS since it makes it easier to shoot lower ISO for the same basic.

07-19-2016, 08:34 PM	#32
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,177	Originally posted by TomB_tx I've used cameras without stabilization for over 50 years, often down to 1/15 with a 50mm lens. I still shoot 250 and 400 mm hand-held on an A7 with no stabilization. Yes, I have seen how it can help on my k-5, but the k-5 is still the camera I use least. My most used digital is Leica M9 - no stabilization and mediocre ISO range, but it's my favorite for low light. Learn good technique, and be stable yourself! Yes, I used cameras without image stabilization for many many years also - I had to develop the skill to hand-hold the camera while taking pictures at 1/15 or slower because I was using Kodachrome 25 at places where a tripod or monopod simply was not allowed ... but a trip to visit our daughter in San Diego {March 2015} was an eyeopening experience for me. I took my Canon Rebel with a mixture of stabilized and unstabilized lenses along with my new Pentax Q-7 with its IBIS body. Although the Rebel had a much larger sensor, I found myself taking over half my pictures with the Q-7 because I was taking so many pictures in dark churches, museums, etc, and I found I trusted the Q-7 so much more after inspecting results each evening. As I become older, I will become less stable {this past weekend I noticed tremors in both my younger brother and in my wife}, but I am confident that I will be able to depend on K-body and Q-body IBIS regardless of the history of the lens I am using.

07-20-2016, 05:38 PM	#33
surfar Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: mid nth coast,nsw Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,137	A very good option for mirrorless is Samsung ..NX300/500...NX30/20/10 if you need a viewfinder...

07-22-2016, 05:03 PM	#34
Tony Belding Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Hamilton, Texas Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 777	I've recent gone through this dilemma myself, as I've pondered using either a Fujifilm X-T1 or a Sony Alpha A7 with older lenses, mostly M42 lenses. It's possible to get almost the full-frame field of view on the X-T1 using a focal reducer, such as the Lens Turbo or the Baveyes. Then you can use each lens with two different effective focal lengths, with or without the focal reducer. And the X-T1 does have very nice retro controls and some quite good manual focusing aids that work in the EVF. However... The focal reducers have some pitfalls, both optical and mechanical. I am rather fond of wide and ultra-wide lenses, and the full-frame Sony presents the most direct and "pure" way of using them as they were intended to function. So, I think it's very likely that I'm going to track down a used A7 and see what I can do with it.

07-22-2016, 09:36 PM	#35
Sliver-Surfer Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 1,558	Originally posted by Tony Belding I've recent gone through this dilemma myself, as I've pondered using either a Fujifilm X-T1 or a Sony Alpha A7 with older lenses, mostly M42 lenses. It's possible to get almost the full-frame field of view on the X-T1 using a focal reducer, such as the Lens Turbo or the Baveyes. Then you can use each lens with two different effective focal lengths, with or without the focal reducer. And the X-T1 does have very nice retro controls and some quite good manual focusing aids that work in the EVF. However... The focal reducers have some pitfalls, both optical and mechanical. I am rather fond of wide and ultra-wide lenses, and the full-frame Sony presents the most direct and "pure" way of using them as they were intended to function. So, I think it's very likely that I'm going to track down a used A7 and see what I can do with it. The booster , from my own test actually results in about a loss of about half to one stop of light between sony a6000 and a7 with the same lens. The booster however does Boost light a bit on aps c.

07-22-2016, 09:55 PM	#36
UncleVanya Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2014 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 28,394	Originally posted by Sliver-Surfer The booster , from my own test actually results in about a loss of about half to one stop of light between sony a6000 and a7 with the same lens. The booster however does Boost light a bit on aps c. Metabones brand or other?

07-23-2016, 01:45 AM	#37
pinholecam Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: North Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,706	Originally posted by butangmucat What about the midrange Sony mirrorless? i.e. NEX-7, A6000? No point imo. Might as well just use a K-mount camera. Yeah, its got focus peaking, but thats about it. The Pentax DSLRs are much better as an image making tool imo. YMMV of course. The A7 is a good price (even cheaper 2nd hand), does what the NEX does with a FF image circle. All the resolution that one really needs with that 24mp sensor too. I'd argue against the half measure of focal reducers. It messes with the mind. One is left wonder if the edge sharpness and bokeh and even flare tolerance is really the lens or the focal reducer.

07-23-2016, 06:56 AM	#39
HopelessTogger Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Roi-et, Thailand Posts: 773	A used A7 or A7II is what you need. Good range of adaptor options including AF adaptors.

07-23-2016, 07:40 AM	#40
Tony Belding Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Hamilton, Texas Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 777	Originally posted by pinholecam No point imo. Might as well just use a K-mount camera. Yeah, its got focus peaking, but thats about it. The Pentax DSLRs are much better as an image making tool imo. Put a manual focus lens on a Pentax DSLR, then how are you going to focus it? The only good way is to install a split-prism focusing screen, and Katz Eye are out of business now, so that's a drag. Quote: I'd argue against the half measure of focal reducers. It messes with the mind. One is left wonder if the edge sharpness and bokeh and even flare tolerance is really the lens or the focal reducer. I agree, but I think they do have their place for some people. If you are mostly shooting modern native lenses with your X-T1 (or whatever) and just want to dabble with "vintage" lenses on the side, and buying a special body just for that purpose isn't justified. . . Then the "half measure" might make good sense. For somebody who really wants to get into collecting and use those lenses, though, it does seem like the Sony A7 is the ticket.

07-23-2016, 06:00 PM	#41
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,177	Originally posted by Tony Belding Put a manual focus lens on a Pentax DSLR, then how are you going to focus it? The only good way is to install a split-prism focusing screen, and Katz Eye are out of business now, so that's a drag. On my K-30, I turn the focus ring until the image appears to be in focus; I've noticed that the "in focus" indicator tends to come on at about the same time {but I have to admit that I've always tried to use a fairly deep DOF, so we may never know exactly how close I am}. When we visited Henry Ford's "Greenfield Village" this past May, I disciplined myself to use only an M42-mount lens on one particular day as a test to see if I could tolerate that mode of operation in case my K-30 suffered from the aperture control malady; all the pictures I took that day were in focus.

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07-23-2016, 07:48 PM	#42
AquaDome Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: New Carlisle, IN Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,475	I only use my K-50 for manual lenses these days. I have added a "K3" focusing screen from FocusingScreen.com. Now it's just what I always wanted: a digital K1000.

07-23-2016, 09:34 PM	#43
HopelessTogger Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Roi-et, Thailand Posts: 773	Word of caution regarding getting a mirrorless for legacy glass. It doesn't stop at legacy glass. Soon you'll be buying native AF lenses for the thing. This happened to me. It was a very expensive experience, poorly planned and ended up not really liking the gear at all. Well, some of it, ironically the cheaper body and cheapest native lens is genius (A6000 with FE 2/28, cheap and AWESOME COMBO! giving 42mm full frame equivalent)

07-24-2016, 10:02 AM	#44
butangmucat Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2016 Posts: 709 Original Poster	Originally posted by audiobomber I have K-mount adapters with aperture control, no aperture control and a speed booster (0.72 x focal length and aperture). I am considering a used SMC-DA 21mm f3,2 as a modern walk-around lens. Does the adapter with aperture control allow me to stop a lens like this? And which one do you have? Thanks.

07-24-2016, 11:58 AM	#45
UncleVanya Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2014 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 28,394	Originally posted by butangmucat I am considering a used SMC-DA 21mm f3,2 as a modern walk-around lens. Does the adapter with aperture control allow me to stop a lens like this? And which one do you have? Thanks. On my GX7 I have a Fotodiox KDA adapter which allows me to control aperture continuously from wide open to fully stopped down (to the lens minimum). Be aware there are no stops shown and no calibration marks. You can however tell how much you have stopped down by the behavior of meter or by eyeballing it.