Canon Blindsided by Mirrorless

Winder · 06-16-2019, 06:43 PM

Canon Was Blinded by Sony and the 'Mirrorless Revolution'

Canon is now stuck with two full-frame lens mounts, which puts it in a very awkward position. It has a well-developed EF mount that most photographers use and that it has to continue managing. It now also has the RF mount that it needs to continue developing, and all of this is costing it an absolute fortune for very little to no gain in the market.

In a nutshell, customers wanted better features and specs from their Canon cameras. When they didn’t receive that, they switched to Sony and the damage had already been done. This led Canon to panic and, instead of focusing on what customers wanted, it followed a trend down an extremely expensive path.
The new mirrorless cameras are subpar regardless of how well priced they are, which means Canon can’t sell their super premium lenses. Even after the 5D Mark IV was released and customers started to switch, instead of producing a mirrorless camera Canon should have instead produced a feature-filled DSLR. The whole mirrorless thing was a straw man point and people didn’t switch because they wanted cameras without a mirror box — they wanted the better features. Here’s the thing, if Canon had come up with the goods in its DSLRs, do you think the majority of those who did switch would have switched?

I think the author nails it. Canon isn't going to a mirrorless body to gain market share. They brought it out because they were loosing market share. I've always felt that Canon under delivered on products.

disconnekt · 06-16-2019, 08:16 PM

I think Canon was more likely hopeing to get away with their usual shenanigans that they've been doing with their DSLR's on their mirrorless camera's, and it bit them in the ass more than they thought.

biz-engineer · 06-16-2019, 08:33 PM

Sony is the best.

---------- Post added 17-06-19 at 05:38 ----------

Originally posted by disconnekt

I think Canon was more likely hopeing to get away with their usual shenanigans that they've been doing with their DSLR's on their mirrorless camera's, and it bit them in the ass more than they thought.

Could be. Meanwhile, a lot of people still shoot canon DSLR with no intention to buy any new camera any time soon. Sony sells to people who like to have always the latest tech, evidence is how fast the price of Sony previous model plummet when a new model is released.

---------- Post added 17-06-19 at 06:00 ----------

But will Sony compete with Fuji GFX100 and get blindsided?

MD Optofonik · 06-16-2019, 10:36 PM

How many different mounts has Canon come out with over the years? How many have been completely abandoned over the decades?

Mistral75 · 06-17-2019, 12:25 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by MD Optofonik

How many different mounts has Canon come out with over the years? (...)

Five: FL/FD, EF, EF-S, EF-M and RF.

Originally posted by MD Optofonik

(...) How many have been completely abandoned over the decades?

One: FD/FL.

**Rondec** · 06-17-2019, 03:19 AM - **1 Like**

I suppose there is doom and gloom around every camera maker. Mistral shared some world wide camera sales numbers (including camcorders) which seemed to indicate that Canon had a 40 percent market share and Sony a 29 percent market share. Nikon is actually the big faller with only about 20 percent world wide market share based on sales. In addition, by all accounts, Canon's mirrorless sales have been quite good in Asia and we have been told over and over that EOS functionality is perfectly maintained with the use of an adapter.

And I don't about this statement "customers wanted better features and specs from their Canon cameras." The implication is that Canon cameras lacked specifications compared to other SLRs and mirrorless cameras on the market at the time. But that isn't reality. Canon cameras had similar specifications to those offered by Nikon and for that matter, Sony. The big knock on Canon had nothing to do with mirrorless versus SLR performance and everything to do with DXO Mark scores for their sensors. They were routinely bashed as not having sensors that were as good as Sony's or others on the market. That has improved quite a bit recently, but certainly this article seems to miss that fact as a reason for sales loss.

All in all, Canon will be fine. They have a very nicely filled out EOS lens line up that will not require updating. They are releasing some very interesting lenses for their full frame MILCs -- lenses that Sony will probably not be able to match since their lens mount is smaller. And they still are number one in sales world wide. Everyone wants to predict the demise of the leader, but to me they are fine for the time being.

reh321 · 06-17-2019, 02:18 PM

Originally posted by Winder

I think the author nails it. Canon isn't going to a mirrorless body to gain market share. They brought it out because they were losing market share.

That is what I've been saying all along.

Quote:

I've always felt that Canon under delivered on products.

I disagree partially. Canon lenses are very good, their bodies not so much.

reh321 · 06-17-2019, 02:25 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by MD Optofonik

How many different mounts has Canon come out with over the years? How many have been completely abandoned over the decades?

Originally posted by Mistral75

Five: FL/FD, EF, EF-S, EF-M and RF.

The EF-S is just a specialization of the EF; if volume of their APS-C DSLR cameras drops off, they could easily discontinue developing new EF-S lenses with no one missing much of anything. In any case, their volume is such that they could easily support all four current mounts.

added: The people who developed the EF/USM mount thirty years ago did a good job; building full-function 'EF to EF-M' and 'EF to RF' adapters was straight-forward, so I really doubt there is much pressure on them to develop native EF-M and RF lens.

beholder3 · 06-17-2019, 02:51 PM - **2 Likes**

Every sentence in that article is a evidence free claim like Elvis lives.

And the real ROTFL part is the nasty „advice“ to build a D850 as a savior.
As if noone could see how much it helped Nikon: Not at all.

It’s also worthwhile recollecting how important Camera specs are:
Enthusiasts don’t care because they look at the glass. Canon is no. 1 there.
Noobs don’t read spec sheets.

Wheatfield · 06-17-2019, 03:20 PM

Originally posted by Winder

Canon Was Blinded by Sony and the 'Mirrorless Revolution'

Canon is now stuck with two full-frame lens mounts, which puts it in a very awkward position. It has a well-developed EF mount that most photographers use and that it has to continue managing. It now also has the RF mount that it needs to continue developing, and all of this is costing it an absolute fortune for very little to no gain in the market.

In a nutshell, customers wanted better features and specs from their Canon cameras. When they didn’t receive that, they switched to Sony and the damage had already been done. This led Canon to panic and, instead of focusing on what customers wanted, it followed a trend down an extremely expensive path.
The new mirrorless cameras are subpar regardless of how well priced they are, which means Canon can’t sell their super premium lenses. Even after the 5D Mark IV was released and customers started to switch, instead of producing a mirrorless camera Canon should have instead produced a feature-filled DSLR. The whole mirrorless thing was a straw man point and people didn’t switch because they wanted cameras without a mirror box — they wanted the better features. Here’s the thing, if Canon had come up with the goods in its DSLRs, do you think the majority of those who did switch would have switched?

I think the author nails it. Canon isn't going to a mirrorless body to gain market share. They brought it out because they were loosing market share. I've always felt that Canon under delivered on products.

Canon won't be supporting two lens mounts for long. The EF mount is not long for this world.
How many lens mounts is Sony supporting right now. The author seems to think it odd that Canon has two. Sony either has two or they no longer support the Alpha mount.

reh321 · 06-17-2019, 04:08 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Wheatfield

Canon won't be supporting two lens mounts for long. The EF mount is not long for this world.
How many lens mounts is Sony supporting right now. The author seems to think it odd that Canon has two. Sony either has two or they no longer support the Alpha mount.

At the moment, the top-ten camera bodies sold by B&H include

EF mount: (1) Canon 5Div, (5) Canon 6Dii

EF-M mount: (6) Canon M-50

EF-S mount: (7) Canon Rebel T6

R mount: (8) Canon 'R'

Their customers will have to start deserting lines before Canon will discontinue any of them.

rawr · 06-17-2019, 04:12 PM

Originally posted by Rondec

All in all, Canon will be fine. They have a very nicely filled out EOS lens line up that will not require updating. ... And they still are number one in sales world wide. Everyone wants to predict the demise of the leader, but to me they are fine for the time being.

Yep. I'm sure Ricoh/Pentax would be quite happy to have the same 'problems Canon currently has.

Wheatfield · 06-17-2019, 04:16 PM

Originally posted by reh321

At the moment, the top-ten camera bodies sold by B&H include

EF mount: (1) Canon 5Div, (5) Canon 6Dii

EF-M mount: (6) Canon M-50

EF-S mount: (7) Canon Rebel T6

R mount: (8) Canon 'R'

Their customers will have to start deserting lines before Canon will discontinue any of them.

Nope. Canon will abandon the EF mount for the RF mount, and their users will either suck it up and buy an adaptor, or keep shooting ever increasingly aged SLRs.
They did it with the FD mount, they will do it again with the EF mount.
In 1987, they promised support for the FD mount would continue well into the future. That future came in less than two years. I expect the EF mount will be gone within 2-3 years.

surfar · 06-17-2019, 04:27 PM

Youtu.be

abhaskare · 06-17-2019, 04:31 PM

Regardless, Canon still leads. And Pentax with its adamant non mirrorless strategy.. is going nowhere!

06-16-2019, 06:43 PM	#1
Winder Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 6,617	Canon Blindsided by Mirrorless Canon Was Blinded by Sony and the 'Mirrorless Revolution' Canon is now stuck with two full-frame lens mounts, which puts it in a very awkward position. It has a well-developed EF mount that most photographers use and that it has to continue managing. It now also has the RF mount that it needs to continue developing, and all of this is costing it an absolute fortune for very little to no gain in the market. In a nutshell, customers wanted better features and specs from their Canon cameras. When they didn’t receive that, they switched to Sony and the damage had already been done. This led Canon to panic and, instead of focusing on what customers wanted, it followed a trend down an extremely expensive path. The new mirrorless cameras are subpar regardless of how well priced they are, which means Canon can’t sell their super premium lenses. Even after the 5D Mark IV was released and customers started to switch, instead of producing a mirrorless camera Canon should have instead produced a feature-filled DSLR. The whole mirrorless thing was a straw man point and people didn’t switch because they wanted cameras without a mirror box — they wanted the better features. Here’s the thing, if Canon had come up with the goods in its DSLRs, do you think the majority of those who did switch would have switched? I think the author nails it. Canon isn't going to a mirrorless body to gain market share. They brought it out because they were loosing market share. I've always felt that Canon under delivered on products.

06-17-2019, 02:25 PM - 1 Like	#8
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,177	Originally posted by MD Optofonik How many different mounts has Canon come out with over the years? How many have been completely abandoned over the decades? Originally posted by Mistral75 Five: FL/FD, EF, EF-S, EF-M and RF. The EF-S is just a specialization of the EF; if volume of their APS-C DSLR cameras drops off, they could easily discontinue developing new EF-S lenses with no one missing much of anything. In any case, their volume is such that they could easily support all four current mounts. added: The people who developed the EF/USM mount thirty years ago did a good job; building full-function 'EF to EF-M' and 'EF to RF' adapters was straight-forward, so I really doubt there is much pressure on them to develop native EF-M and RF lens. Last edited by reh321; 06-17-2019 at 02:31 PM.

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06-16-2019, 08:16 PM	#2
disconnekt Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: SoCal/I.E. Photos: Albums Posts: 1,699	I think Canon was more likely hopeing to get away with their usual shenanigans that they've been doing with their DSLR's on their mirrorless camera's, and it bit them in the ass more than they thought.

06-16-2019, 08:33 PM	#3
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,231	Sony is the best. ---------- Post added 17-06-19 at 05:38 ---------- Originally posted by disconnekt I think Canon was more likely hopeing to get away with their usual shenanigans that they've been doing with their DSLR's on their mirrorless camera's, and it bit them in the ass more than they thought. Could be. Meanwhile, a lot of people still shoot canon DSLR with no intention to buy any new camera any time soon. Sony sells to people who like to have always the latest tech, evidence is how fast the price of Sony previous model plummet when a new model is released. ---------- Post added 17-06-19 at 06:00 ---------- But will Sony compete with Fuji GFX100 and get blindsided?

06-16-2019, 10:36 PM	#4
MD Optofonik Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: California Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 962	How many different mounts has Canon come out with over the years? How many have been completely abandoned over the decades?

06-17-2019, 12:25 AM - 1 Like	#5
Mistral75 Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Paris, France Posts: 7,527	Originally posted by MD Optofonik How many different mounts has Canon come out with over the years? (...) Five: FL/FD, EF, EF-S, EF-M and RF. Originally posted by MD Optofonik (...) How many have been completely abandoned over the decades? One: FD/FL.

06-17-2019, 03:19 AM - 1 Like	#6
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,653	I suppose there is doom and gloom around every camera maker. Mistral shared some world wide camera sales numbers (including camcorders) which seemed to indicate that Canon had a 40 percent market share and Sony a 29 percent market share. Nikon is actually the big faller with only about 20 percent world wide market share based on sales. In addition, by all accounts, Canon's mirrorless sales have been quite good in Asia and we have been told over and over that EOS functionality is perfectly maintained with the use of an adapter. And I don't about this statement "customers wanted better features and specs from their Canon cameras." The implication is that Canon cameras lacked specifications compared to other SLRs and mirrorless cameras on the market at the time. But that isn't reality. Canon cameras had similar specifications to those offered by Nikon and for that matter, Sony. The big knock on Canon had nothing to do with mirrorless versus SLR performance and everything to do with DXO Mark scores for their sensors. They were routinely bashed as not having sensors that were as good as Sony's or others on the market. That has improved quite a bit recently, but certainly this article seems to miss that fact as a reason for sales loss. All in all, Canon will be fine. They have a very nicely filled out EOS lens line up that will not require updating. They are releasing some very interesting lenses for their full frame MILCs -- lenses that Sony will probably not be able to match since their lens mount is smaller. And they still are number one in sales world wide. Everyone wants to predict the demise of the leader, but to me they are fine for the time being.

06-17-2019, 02:18 PM	#7
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,177	Originally posted by Winder I think the author nails it. Canon isn't going to a mirrorless body to gain market share. They brought it out because they were losing market share. That is what I've been saying all along. Quote: I've always felt that Canon under delivered on products. I disagree partially. Canon lenses are very good, their bodies not so much.

06-17-2019, 02:51 PM - 2 Likes	#9
beholder3 Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 3,112	Every sentence in that article is a evidence free claim like Elvis lives. And the real ROTFL part is the nasty „advice“ to build a D850 as a savior. As if noone could see how much it helped Nikon: Not at all. It’s also worthwhile recollecting how important Camera specs are: Enthusiasts don’t care because they look at the glass. Canon is no. 1 there. Noobs don’t read spec sheets.

06-17-2019, 03:20 PM	#10
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,981	Originally posted by Winder Canon Was Blinded by Sony and the 'Mirrorless Revolution' Canon is now stuck with two full-frame lens mounts, which puts it in a very awkward position. It has a well-developed EF mount that most photographers use and that it has to continue managing. It now also has the RF mount that it needs to continue developing, and all of this is costing it an absolute fortune for very little to no gain in the market. In a nutshell, customers wanted better features and specs from their Canon cameras. When they didn’t receive that, they switched to Sony and the damage had already been done. This led Canon to panic and, instead of focusing on what customers wanted, it followed a trend down an extremely expensive path. The new mirrorless cameras are subpar regardless of how well priced they are, which means Canon can’t sell their super premium lenses. Even after the 5D Mark IV was released and customers started to switch, instead of producing a mirrorless camera Canon should have instead produced a feature-filled DSLR. The whole mirrorless thing was a straw man point and people didn’t switch because they wanted cameras without a mirror box — they wanted the better features. Here’s the thing, if Canon had come up with the goods in its DSLRs, do you think the majority of those who did switch would have switched? I think the author nails it. Canon isn't going to a mirrorless body to gain market share. They brought it out because they were loosing market share. I've always felt that Canon under delivered on products. Canon won't be supporting two lens mounts for long. The EF mount is not long for this world. How many lens mounts is Sony supporting right now. The author seems to think it odd that Canon has two. Sony either has two or they no longer support the Alpha mount.

06-17-2019, 04:08 PM - 1 Like	#11
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,177	Originally posted by Wheatfield Canon won't be supporting two lens mounts for long. The EF mount is not long for this world. How many lens mounts is Sony supporting right now. The author seems to think it odd that Canon has two. Sony either has two or they no longer support the Alpha mount. At the moment, the top-ten camera bodies sold by B&H include EF mount: (1) Canon 5Div, (5) Canon 6Dii EF-M mount: (6) Canon M-50 EF-S mount: (7) Canon Rebel T6 R mount: (8) Canon 'R' Their customers will have to start deserting lines before Canon will discontinue any of them.

06-17-2019, 04:12 PM	#12
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	Originally posted by Rondec All in all, Canon will be fine. They have a very nicely filled out EOS lens line up that will not require updating. ... And they still are number one in sales world wide. Everyone wants to predict the demise of the leader, but to me they are fine for the time being. Yep. I'm sure Ricoh/Pentax would be quite happy to have the same 'problems Canon currently has.

06-17-2019, 04:16 PM	#13
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,981	Originally posted by reh321 At the moment, the top-ten camera bodies sold by B&H include EF mount: (1) Canon 5Div, (5) Canon 6Dii EF-M mount: (6) Canon M-50 EF-S mount: (7) Canon Rebel T6 R mount: (8) Canon 'R' Their customers will have to start deserting lines before Canon will discontinue any of them. Nope. Canon will abandon the EF mount for the RF mount, and their users will either suck it up and buy an adaptor, or keep shooting ever increasingly aged SLRs. They did it with the FD mount, they will do it again with the EF mount. In 1987, they promised support for the FD mount would continue well into the future. That future came in less than two years. I expect the EF mount will be gone within 2-3 years.

06-17-2019, 04:31 PM	#15
abhaskare Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Phoenixville, PA Posts: 136	Regardless, Canon still leads. And Pentax with its adamant non mirrorless strategy.. is going nowhere!