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11-13-2020, 09:12 PM - 1 Like   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
He is a good egg.
Seems he has the same opinion of you.

11-13-2020, 09:46 PM   #17
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I would test those lenses on the A7rii before making any decisions about paring down the gear. I do think that those Pentax lenses won't fully show the capability of a 42mp sensor on the FF edge because most of them just can't resolve that much detail that far out. Of course for a lot of shots that doesn't really matter....
11-14-2020, 07:44 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by automorphism Quote
I would test those lenses on the A7rii before making any decisions about paring down the gear. I do think that those Pentax lenses won't fully show the capability of a 42mp sensor on the FF edge because most of them just can't resolve that much detail that far out. Of course for a lot of shots that doesn't really matter....
What's the basis of this? I can't say you're wrong as I haven't tested it yet. But I'd be curious what makes you sure. Also, as you said fill resolution isn't always required. My experience is that all lenses get better with higher resolution sensor but some get better than others. If expect my better lenses to look quite good. Remember I'm shooting on a k-3. The pixel pitch of that sensor is 3.88 micro meters, the Sony is 4.51 micro meters. Detail resolution is already more difficult on the k-3. At least that my understanding. But I'm also sure the lenses I have may not be as razor sharp as some others so your point isn't lost on me.
11-14-2020, 09:12 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
What's the basis of this? I can't say you're wrong as I haven't tested it yet. But I'd be curious what makes you sure. Also, as you said fill resolution isn't always required. My experience is that all lenses get better with higher resolution sensor but some get better than others. If expect my better lenses to look quite good. Remember I'm shooting on a k-3. The pixel pitch of that sensor is 3.88 micro meters, the Sony is 4.51 micro meters. Detail resolution is already more difficult on the k-3. At least that my understanding. But I'm also sure the lenses I have may not be as razor sharp as some others so your point isn't lost on me.
Well, I am not sure really what will happen in practice, so it is just a theory. Could be wrong.

Even though the K3 has a smaller pixel pitch, I am talking about the FF edge, the part outside the APS-C range. In that range, the resolving power of most Pentax lenses (and indeed most DSLR lenses) is not that great. From seeing the MTF and Imatest results of these lenses I have a feeling that the edge performance on a high-resolution sensor like the A7rii won't be that much better than the edge performance on the K1.

So, my point is not that the images coming out of that combo will be bad or anything. I actually think they would be good. My point was just that the area outside the APS-C crop may not be that much better than a lower-res FF sensor.


Also, definitely true that lenses 'improve' on a high-resolution sensor...but only up to a point.

11-14-2020, 11:47 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by automorphism Quote
Well, I am not sure really what will happen in practice, so it is just a theory. Could be wrong.

Even though the K3 has a smaller pixel pitch, I am talking about the FF edge, the part outside the APS-C range. In that range, the resolving power of most Pentax lenses (and indeed most DSLR lenses) is not that great. From seeing the MTF and Imatest results of these lenses I have a feeling that the edge performance on a high-resolution sensor like the A7rii won't be that much better than the edge performance on the K1.

So, my point is not that the images coming out of that combo will be bad or anything. I actually think they would be good. My point was just that the area outside the APS-C crop may not be that much better than a lower-res FF sensor.


Also, definitely true that lenses 'improve' on a high-resolution sensor...but only up to a point.
Ah gotcha. Yes I don't know either but I would think the truly FF lenses on my list (FA* 300 and FA Limiteds) will do better than some of the less FF centric ones. I'm going to be curious how the FA 31 and the Sony FE 28 f2 compare for example, but I know from this list that the FE 28 isn't the most resolving lens around:

Here are the best lenses to maximise the potential of the Sony A7RIV - sonyalpharumors

And sure the A7rIV is more resolving than the A7rII but I am using this as a guidepost. The 24-105 my dad has on loan is pretty spectacular he says, but I haven't compared images yet. He took some with the 28 and says he can't tell the difference on his laptop screen even zoomed in. Time will tell.
11-14-2020, 04:20 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
Ah gotcha. Yes I don't know either but I would think the truly FF lenses on my list (FA* 300 and FA Limiteds) will do better than some of the less FF centric ones. I'm going to be curious how the FA 31 and the Sony FE 28 f2 compare for example, but I know from this list that the FE 28 isn't the most resolving lens around:

Here are the best lenses to maximise the potential of the Sony A7RIV - sonyalpharumors

And sure the A7rIV is more resolving than the A7rII but I am using this as a guidepost. The 24-105 my dad has on loan is pretty spectacular he says, but I haven't compared images yet. He took some with the 28 and says he can't tell the difference on his laptop screen even zoomed in. Time will tell.
Well, if you do end up testing all these lenses, I'd be very interested to hear your general opinion on their performance. I also have the FA* but only ever used it on a crop camera.
11-14-2020, 04:23 PM   #22
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"Testing" may be a bit more formal than my approach. Lol.

11-14-2020, 04:34 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
I current own a lot of nice lenses for Pentax, some are FF capable, some are mostly FF, some are not FF at all. I tried the K-1 and really didn't love the size and the bulk of the f2.8 zooms, but the IQ was very good. I ended up just sticking with my K-3. I also have a modest collection of m43 and my Dad is giving me his m43 gear since he is too old and doesn't want to carry anything more than the Sony RX100 mk III he has been using.

So Dad is a master at trading things and worked out getting a Sony A7rII recently in trade for a .380 pistol and some cash. It's going to be my Xmas and Birthday gift he says... . The body is in pristine condition, previous owner upgraded to the A7rIV and used this only in his studio. The body does not come with a lens.

So now what???? Obviously the new AF K to E mount adapter is of interest as is even a passive adapter for reuse of k mount gear on the Sony.

I'm in a bit of a dilemma. I like m43 for size, particularly when travelling. However I don't really want to maintain three lines of gear on top of what I have. Obviously I'll make my own decisions but I'm looking for input on what YOU might do if you had similar situation and interests in photography. I'm going to list my gear below in general - I may leave a bit out as this is off the top of my head:

Pentax Gear:
K-3 Body

Crop ONLY AF Zooms (** very limited range semi-ff coverage)
10-17 (SMC)
12-24 (SMC)**
16-50 (Screw Drive Converted)
18-50 (DAL)
18-135
20-40**
50-135
55-300 (DA SMC non-WR non-PLM) (Unclear what if any FF coverage this offers)

Full Frame Coverage AF Zooms:
60-250 (I have a baffle for it - just have not made the plunge to install it to reduce ff vignetting)**
F or FA 70-210 f4-5.6 (I don't remember which!)

DA ONLY AF Primes:
14
15 (SMC)

Full Frame AF Primes (* or nearly FF)
FA Ltd 31
DA Ltd 40 *
F 50 f1.7
FA 50 f1.4
DA* 55 *
DA Ltd 70 (HD) *
FA Ltd 77
DFA 100 Macro WR
DA* 200
FA* 300*

MF FF Primes:
Takumar Bayonet 135 2.5
a few more 50mm's
Tokina 35-70 f3.5-5.6

MF Crop Primes:
8mm Rokinon Fisheye (Non-removable hood)

m43 Bodies:
Panasonic GX1, GX7, GX8
Olympus EM1 mk1
Olympus Air-01

m43 Zooms:
Panasonic 12-32 f3.5-5.6
Panasonic 12-35 f/2.8
Panasonic 14-42 PZ f3.5-5.6
Panasonic 35-100 f4-5.6
Panasonic 45-175 f4-5.6

m43 Primes:
Panasonic 20mm f1.7
Sigma Art 30mm f2.8
Panasonic 42.5mm f1.7
Olympus 60mm Macro f2.8

m43 "toy lens":
Olympus 9mm Fisheye Body Cap Lens

m43 Adapters:
Pentax DA to m43
Canon FD to m43 (no FD lenses to speak of right now)

So what would you do? What would you change? Selling the A7rII isn't an option right away is not an option - but in the longer term it could be on the table. I need to try it to show my Dad I appreciate the effort he is making on this.
OMG you have enough lenses there to start your own store ! I don't think you need to get anymore lenses, it would be redundant. I would probably just get an adapter and leave it at that.
11-14-2020, 05:39 PM - 2 Likes   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by hjoseph7 Quote
OMG you have enough lenses there to start your own store ! I don't think you need to get anymore lenses, it would be redundant. I would probably just get an adapter and leave it at that.
Lol. Yes. I do have a story. My dad and I were both shooting K-50's and then K-3's. We kept two sets of lenses. Occasionally swapping back and forth this or that. Eventually he envied my m43 gear and he gave me all his Pentax gear for my m43 gear. Then I got a few more m43 items (cheaper and smaller for specific needs). Later he decided that the rx100 mk iii was all he really needed and again gave me his gear, this time m43. Now the Sony is another matter. I'm not sure why he's decided I need it and the two lenses he added (Sony FE 28/2, FE 85/1.8)...

Way too much gear... But I really don't want to get rid of any while Dad is still planning to come live here. I want to share the whole collection with him.
11-14-2020, 08:41 PM   #25
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Very nice... and very nice of you to bring him in as well.
That is how families should work.
You're a good man.
11-15-2020, 02:55 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
Lol. Yes. I do have a story. My dad and I were both shooting K-50's and then K-3's. We kept two sets of lenses. Occasionally swapping back and forth this or that. Eventually he envied my m43 gear and he gave me all his Pentax gear for my m43 gear. Then I got a few more m43 items (cheaper and smaller for specific needs). Later he decided that the rx100 mk iii was all he really needed and again gave me his gear, this time m43. Now the Sony is another matter. I'm not sure why he's decided I need it and the two lenses he added (Sony FE 28/2, FE 85/1.8)...

Way too much gear... But I really don't want to get rid of any while Dad is still planning to come live here. I want to share the whole collection with him.
It is a lot of gear, but with that sort of outlook you fully deserve it, Brad. May you and your Dad enjoy it in good health. You may not need all of it, but my what fun you'll share shooting with it
11-15-2020, 09:18 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
It is a lot of gear, but with that sort of outlook you fully deserve it, Brad. May you and your Dad enjoy it in good health. You may not need all of it, but my what fun you'll share shooting with it
Thanks. He's a bit gear crazy, I'm more into whatever tool is in hand is the best tool to use. Lol.
11-15-2020, 10:18 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
I current own a lot of nice lenses for Pentax, some are FF capable, some are mostly FF, some are not FF at all. I tried the K-1 and really didn't love the size and the bulk of the f2.8 zooms, but the IQ was very good. I ended up just sticking with my K-3. I also have a modest collection of m43 and my Dad is giving me his m43 gear since he is too old and doesn't want to carry anything more than the Sony RX100 mk III he has been using.

So Dad is a master at trading things and worked out getting a Sony A7rII recently in trade for a .380 pistol and some cash. It's going to be my Xmas and Birthday gift he says... . The body is in pristine condition, previous owner upgraded to the A7rIV and used this only in his studio. The body does not come with a lens.

So now what???? Obviously the new AF K to E mount adapter is of interest as is even a passive adapter for reuse of k mount gear on the Sony.

I'm in a bit of a dilemma. I like m43 for size, particularly when travelling. However I don't really want to maintain three lines of gear on top of what I have. Obviously I'll make my own decisions but I'm looking for input on what YOU might do if you had similar situation and interests in photography. I'm going to list my gear below in general - I may leave a bit out as this is off the top of my head:

Pentax Gear:
K-3 Body

Crop ONLY AF Zooms (** very limited range semi-ff coverage)
10-17 (SMC)
12-24 (SMC)**
16-50 (Screw Drive Converted)
18-50 (DAL)
18-135
20-40**
50-135
55-300 (DA SMC non-WR non-PLM) (Unclear what if any FF coverage this offers)

Full Frame Coverage AF Zooms:
60-250 (I have a baffle for it - just have not made the plunge to install it to reduce ff vignetting)**
F or FA 70-210 f4-5.6 (I don't remember which!)

DA ONLY AF Primes:
14
15 (SMC)

Full Frame AF Primes (* or nearly FF)
FA Ltd 31
DA Ltd 40 *
F 50 f1.7
FA 50 f1.4
DA* 55 *
DA Ltd 70 (HD) *
FA Ltd 77
DFA 100 Macro WR
DA* 200
FA* 300*

MF FF Primes:
Takumar Bayonet 135 2.5
a few more 50mm's
Tokina 35-70 f3.5-5.6

MF Crop Primes:
8mm Rokinon Fisheye (Non-removable hood)

m43 Bodies:
Panasonic GX1, GX7, GX8
Olympus EM1 mk1
Olympus Air-01

m43 Zooms:
Panasonic 12-32 f3.5-5.6
Panasonic 12-35 f/2.8
Panasonic 14-42 PZ f3.5-5.6
Panasonic 35-100 f4-5.6
Panasonic 45-175 f4-5.6

m43 Primes:
Panasonic 20mm f1.7
Sigma Art 30mm f2.8
Panasonic 42.5mm f1.7
Olympus 60mm Macro f2.8

m43 "toy lens":
Olympus 9mm Fisheye Body Cap Lens

m43 Adapters:
Pentax DA to m43
Canon FD to m43 (no FD lenses to speak of right now)

So what would you do? What would you change? Selling the A7rII isn't an option right away is not an option - but in the longer term it could be on the table. I need to try it to show my Dad I appreciate the effort he is making on this.
That father sounds like a keeper!
11-15-2020, 08:51 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by automorphism Quote
Well, I am not sure really what will happen in practice, so it is just a theory. Could be wrong.
No, the KP or K-70 or whatever has greater pixel density than the A7 Rii.
11-15-2020, 08:59 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
No, the KP or K-70 or whatever has greater pixel density than the A7 Rii.
Yeah, I am fully aware of that. I was talking about what would happen outside the APS-C area, where lenses generally have weaker resolving power.
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