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09-10-2021, 08:39 AM - 1 Like   #76
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
Adobe, yes - but in all honesty I've never been especially keen on the OEM embedded profiles in my K-5, K-3 and K-3II either. They're pretty bland and not particularly accurate where HSL of blues and reds are concerned, IMHO. They're OK as a starting point, though, and it takes little effort to come up with a decent-looking preset for Lightroom (or other raw development tool of choice) that can be applied to images right at the point of import. It's a bit more work to create one or more custom profiles, especially if you're matching the results between two different camera + lens combos, but it only needs to be done once and is well worth the effort. Best of all, it costs nothing
I’ve had that impression as well. Generally it’s closer to the mark with the embedded profiles on my Nikon’s vs my Pentax gear and easier to get where I want faster with the Nikon. But I an get the same results with the Pentax/Olympus/Fuji gear or even my IPhone 12 now with ProRaw files. I do prefer my latest Z5 JPEG profiles more than any of the others currently and often they’re what I want OOC without any post processing which saves a lot of time, esp with the EVF making it very easy to nail highlights without any chimping on the first try.

It would be interesting to see some RAW files with a PK to Z adapter and shot with a K-1 body and Z-7 Body, then let everyone here play around in Adobe/DXO etc and see the results. Megadap already has one you can AF your PK lenses with the Z body. It’s probably a matter of time before all lenses can be well adapted to the Z body as NIkon went last and make the largest mount so they can all be adapted.

Maybe that’s Pentax’s mirrorless endgame, the K-wider. Which will then adapt Nikon Z and everything else lol.

---------- Post added 09-10-2021 at 08:47 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Serkevan Quote
I resemble that remark, -0.7EV unless the scene is very flat... and -1.3-1.7 EV in strong backlight
Same here, I set -.7 or a little more in really strong light. I’ve done that with the K7/5 and my 3.

---------- Post added 09-10-2021 at 08:58 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Geee, perhaps there is something interesting to get from those curves, raw container etc.., I'm don't understand all this. I look at DXO curves between Z7 and K1, the difference between the curves is what? 0.1 ev? The Z7 lower ISO, I think I can get it by dialing +0.3 exposure compensation on the K1. My base ISO images on the K1 are stunning, my problem isn't that I don't have ISO64, it's more like I don't have enough situation where I can use ISO100 handheld. A lot of available light situations, I haven't used ISO100 and I wouldn't have used ISO64 either. Performance of SR really helps here, and IMO SR on the K1 now lags behind Nikon and Canon. I've seen SR tests done with MILCs camera (Sony, Nikon, Canon , Pana), some cameras stabilize 6 stops, 7 stops, no way I get 6 stops of SR on my K1. Practically, the K1 SR gives me approx. 2 to 3 stops depending on the lens, and maybe best case 4 stops with a wide lens.
I think in the end all the differences are pretty negligible for final output between all of these cameras. It’s probably the ergonomics/feel/menus and button placements and tactile feel of the camera that works with the you the human that matters more.

Most of these things are now running the same sony sensors and the final differences are tiny. I doubt ISO 64 or ISO 100 on a Nikon or Pentax (both using a sony sensor) are going to mean much to a person looking at a final processed image on a wall. They won’t go “that was obviously this brand” Nobody can tell from the end result.

Ive got the IBIS+Lens VR (24-200) in the Z5 combo and it’s probably slightly better than the K-3. Doesn’t make much difference in end use to me honestly, they both stabilize enough to not be a hinderance. It would be cool to see Pentax do the same and combo the stabilization with the lens like most of the other brands do in some combination now. I think it was Olympus who started that. Ironically I can’t get a weather sealed super zoom for my Pentax and the Nikon is fully sealed, which is what led me to Pentax in the first place.


Last edited by LeeRunge; 09-10-2021 at 09:00 AM.
09-11-2021, 06:58 PM - 3 Likes   #77
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QuoteOriginally posted by LeeRunge Quote
ergonomics/feel/menus and button placements and tactile feel of the camera that works with the you the human that matters more.
This, lens options, and pricing. And likely more so pricing, that is beyond us "passionate" people here haha. The number one mention I see in the beginner photographer corners of the internet is pricing. Got it for cheap, don't want to pay too much, bundle deal etc.


And it is amazing how many people I've seen that have an old digital camera and only one or two lenses. And they use that for years and years contently.


I think it is mostly armchair geeks and retirees cashing in the 401k that are the big money spenders here. In general. Outside of professionals that NEED a specific setup (and then use it until the 'wheels' fall off of it).


Lots more people who think 500 or 600 dollars is a very high amount of money to spend. And probably so considering their location and experiences. I'm not shaming anyone (to knock that idea down before it starts), but am pointing out there is a sizeable portion of the community that spends little on their photographic pursuits (in comparison). And those people likely aren't geeking out on DXO charts and the like!
10-27-2021, 09:46 AM - 2 Likes   #78
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To me it's all about lenses! The decision for me boils down to do I prefer lenses that I can put on a K-1 DSLR body or the lenses I can put on a Z7 mirrorless body.

I've owned multiple copies of the K-1 from when it first came out. Now I own Nikon Z6/Z7 bodies. Both the K1 and Z7 have more mega pixels than I need. Both have great ergonomics and image quality. I don't use GPS or Astro and I've found that pixel shift doesn't work for the subjects I shoot - so these wiz-bang K-1 features have no appeal to me.

The reason I've sold all my K-1's and am now all in with the Nikon Z bodies is that the Z's have the shortest flange focal distance (16mm) of any full frame body! That's shorter than even the Sony E and Canon R bodies. Such a short FFD enables me to easily adapt my bokehlicious Leica M, Voigtlander M, and LTM/L39 lenses (and dozens of others) to the Z bodies. One can not adapt these outstanding lenses to the K-1 with it's much longer 45.46mm FFD.

So, for those of you like me who primarily use premium, manual-focus adapted lenses with FFD's of less than 45mm, it's a no brainer - go with the Nikon Z full frame bodies.
10-27-2021, 09:58 PM - 1 Like   #79
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Plus the native Z lenses have been quality. Especially the S lineup. And Nikon is steadily building out the lineup with much more haste than Pentax has offered in several years.

I still miss 3rd Party Tamron and Sigma that have not shown up to the.. party. yet. I still think there are some kind of legal reasons or quiet agreements between 3rd parties and Nikon on that. Maybe, in time, that will change though?


Lots to use with adapters though as you say Fen. And Nikon is launching an FTZ II purportedly soonish. I think its the same as the old but rounded on the bottom more. Should know more tomorrow on the release event.

10-27-2021, 10:54 PM   #80
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
Plus the native Z lenses have been quality. Especially the S lineup. And Nikon is steadily building out the lineup with much more haste than Pentax has offered in several years.
I've considered the Z7 many times, but, given how much I invested in Pentax glass, and how tiny is the difference in image quality between K1 and Z7, it's hard to make a decision to switch to Nikon. The other thing is, Nikon Z7 grip system is unimpressive. But Nikon inner AF and image processing tech is ahead of Pentax, it's how the tech should be actually, not like K1 is K5 tech which is 2014 tech. Now, if Nikon would release a Z7 successor with the 61Mp BSI Sony sensor in it, and a solid camera build and solid grip and a solid articulated screen, then I might be interested to sell my K mount lenses and switch completely to Nikon. Once Nikon will have a 70-200 f4 available , Nikon will be even more compelling. With that all said, I don't say Nikon is better because I'm a Nikon owner, I'm not a Nikon fanboy, I don't evaluate Nikon offer with filtered glasses. If Ricoh make a K1 successor with 61Mp BSI and K3 III tech in it, then it'll be unlikely that I switch to Nikon, because I almost have all the lenses I exactly need for Pentax and I don't have any lens for Nikon Z.

Last edited by biz-engineer; 10-27-2021 at 11:06 PM.
10-28-2021, 04:40 AM - 1 Like   #81
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Nikon was my first love in cameras- I’m glad they have their mojo back. The reality is that 99% of us rarely exercise the capabilities of what we have enough to justify that next leap in whatever feature the shiny new thing has.
10-28-2021, 05:00 PM   #82
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
I've considered the Z7 many times, but, given how much I invested in Pentax glass, and how tiny is the difference in image quality between K1 and Z7, it's hard to make a decision to switch to Nikon. The other thing is, Nikon Z7 grip system is unimpressive. But Nikon inner AF and image processing tech is ahead of Pentax, it's how the tech should be actually, not like K1 is K5 tech which is 2014 tech. Now, if Nikon would release a Z7 successor with the 61Mp BSI Sony sensor in it, and a solid camera build and solid grip and a solid articulated screen, then I might be interested to sell my K mount lenses and switch completely to Nikon. Once Nikon will have a 70-200 f4 available , Nikon will be even more compelling. With that all said, I don't say Nikon is better because I'm a Nikon owner, I'm not a Nikon fanboy, I don't evaluate Nikon offer with filtered glasses. If Ricoh make a K1 successor with 61Mp BSI and K3 III tech in it, then it'll be unlikely that I switch to Nikon, because I almost have all the lenses I exactly need for Pentax and I don't have any lens for Nikon Z.
The Z7 or the Z7 II? There were improvements on the 2nd gen, esp on the AF and the inclusion of a proper portrait grip that's optional. Plus the SD card slot...


The Nikkor 50 S lens is hands down the sharpest and best rendering lens I've used. Better than my variety of F mount lenses. Better than my variety of K mount lenses. The difference is visible. Especially seen at lower aperture values. Slightly sharper than even the Sigma Art 50 f/1.4 stopped down to f/1.8 and much smaller and lighter haha

And the rendering is quite pleasing. Before using it, I didn't think there would be much difference either between old lenses and new. But there is. It's ...clear.. Nikon is trying to woo people to spend the money.


So the extra money from selling to buying wasn't a problem for me. That said, I do have some older K mount and a few F mount lenses I adapt to use. The optical flaws can be interesting. Almost like a built in filter.

10-28-2021, 05:29 PM - 1 Like   #83
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hi guys i ended up selling my k-1 which i thought i would never ever do but the lens roadmap for Pentax was very very poor


i still have my z7 with the latest version of the tech art adapter tze-02 and it is flawless with my voight lenses


Ive all so bought a Panasonic s1r and all i can say with good quality glass its beats thek-1 pixel shift by a large margin i use Vario-Elmarit-SL 24-90mmf/2.8-4 ASPH and i can tell you know for pure micro contrast and sharpness its unreal


i allso got the sl2 but i need the tilt screen. i like things about the sl2 over the s1r but in the end have kept the s1r


i am sure there will be lots of people who think crazy but that's me


now and this is abig if but maybe Pentax ricoh could join the L alliance that would bea great idea for them because how they will survive is beyond me i love Pentax loved the k-1 but better things are out there


my main gripe with the Pentax k-1 was AF to me it wasn't accurate like the other cameras i have it was all ways off and it did go in for repair and was OK for the first couple of months but then back to poor focus


most leica and Panasonic lenses can resolve 200 megapixels so pretty future proof and the sigma dg lenses which are super well priced are all so sharp as hell and very well made


out of all the forums i have been on i love the Pentax people in general and i will still come on here every now and then


with the z7 i get the 1.2 lenses voightlander and with the s1r i get the pixel shift and the superb leica lenses and can adapt all lenses like my Zeiss etc etc


leica M lenses below 35mm do have mussy corners as the sl2 this is perfect but not on thes1r


i wanted pin sharp images i all so wanted lenses that had character and a different look amazing colours and this setup i have is the best Ive got and am finally happy foveon type quality with better colours

even with my zeiss lenses pixel shift on the k-1 which once wowed me doesnt hold a candle to the s1r you must remember glass high quality is the key and pentax dont have it


yes 31mm ltd 77mm ltd and 43mm i have kept but for sharpness to the next level sl2 or s1r is the way to go and so many lenses to choose from

Last edited by andy271; 10-28-2021 at 05:35 PM.
10-28-2021, 09:41 PM   #84
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
The Z7 or the Z7 II? There were improvements on the 2nd gen, esp on the AF and the inclusion of a proper portrait grip that's optional. Plus the SD card slot...
Z7 or Z7ii , it's the same sensor.

---------- Post added 29-10-21 at 06:44 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by andy271 Quote
my main gripe with the Pentax k-1 was AF to me it wasn't accurate like the other cameras
With shooting manual focus lenses on the Z7, the Pentax AF accuracy issue makes sense.

---------- Post added 29-10-21 at 06:59 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by andy271 Quote
i am sure there will be lots of people who think crazy but that's me
It's not crazy at all, the camera industry need people who spend a lot of money on cameras, we need people like you.
10-29-2021, 05:03 AM - 1 Like   #85
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i buy what i think will meet my criteria pentax k-1 doesnt dont get me wrong its a superb camera apart from the AF but for me the z7 and s1r are far better supported ie glass
10-29-2021, 07:48 AM   #86
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Z7 or Z7ii , it's the same sensor.
You can buy and use what you want, not my concern. But you did express publicly a complaint about the grip system. The Z7 didn't have support for a portrait grip. The 2nd gen does however offer one. So I was pointing out your complaint was addressed in the 2nd gen model.


And there is more to IQ than the sensor. Namely, the lenses. And the S series lenses are much better across the frame. They're a cut above in actual practice. If sharpness across the frame, in and out of focus rendering, and chromatic aberration handling matters to you. Plus they're all tightly weather sealed and using in lens silent motors. It's perhaps a finer experience than you might expect.

If you're content with adapting lenses, then yes it wouldn't matter that much. But the experience of manual focusing on a viewfinder that can zoom in on your subject and/or provide visual aids to focus make it a snap on the mirrorless to obtain critical focus.
10-29-2021, 09:06 AM - 1 Like   #87
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
And the S series lenses are much better across the frame.
The S 24, 35, 50 and 85 f1.8 primes are all sharp edge to edge, very good. So far, my HD FA 35 f2, DFA50 macro and DFA 100 macro are also sharp edge to edge, but not as good as the nikons regarding CA. the thing is, now I have 2 x K1 and 9 Pentax lenses (bought new), so I'm hooked, and if I'd switched to Nikon it'd cost me a ton of money , and my Pentax gear is still working very well and produces images of quality in the same league as Nikon, I can't justify the cost of switching to Nikon.

Last edited by biz-engineer; 10-29-2021 at 09:24 AM.
10-29-2021, 04:19 PM   #88
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its well said biz-engineer i was hooked on the k-1 and i felt allmost sorry when i finally sold it for a couple of days i said to myself why didnt i just keep it but if your cash is invested in the pentax your wise keeping it ill allways have a fond spot for pentax and if they ever release another camera with better AF full frame big mega pixel count i will proberly come back
10-29-2021, 05:46 PM - 1 Like   #89
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
Plus the native Z lenses have been quality. Especially the S lineup. And Nikon is steadily building out the lineup with much more haste than Pentax has offered in several years.

I still miss 3rd Party Tamron and Sigma that have not shown up to the.. party. yet. I still think there are some kind of legal reasons or quiet agreements between 3rd parties and Nikon on that. Maybe, in time, that will change though?


Lots to use with adapters though as you say Fen. And Nikon is launching an FTZ II purportedly soonish. I think its the same as the old but rounded on the bottom more. Should know more tomorrow on the release event.
Yes, Z has been all solid lenses so far, I don’t think a single one of them for full frame isn’t well sealed against water and dust either. Even the $299 40 F2 is weather sealed. I’m not sure any other lens lineup offers that right now honestly. Canon demands L glass for it. Sony has a few but high end only. Olympus did with high end glass. Nikon Z in full frame, all of it. And a bunch of the DX glass too. Best outdoor weather camera system IMO.

I think Tamron and Sigma will happen, or we can just use it with an E mount adapter so I’m not worried much.

I bought Pentax for weather sealing in 2009. Nikon Z has far surpassed it in that respect. Just look at the schematics for the weather seals on them.

Both the primes (thats the 35mm) and the non S 24-200. This is how they all are, even the budget 40mm. The Z5 is just as well sealed as the 6/7. F glass was not like this. You had to buy the high end and they were vague in respect to what was sealed in those. Z is a totally different animal for use in less than perfect weather.

Canon and Sony are sorely lacking in this area. You are forced to buy the top of the line lenses to get this. And these are the lower priced Z lenses not even the high end stuff. Well done Nikon in this respect.



Last edited by LeeRunge; 10-29-2021 at 05:57 PM.
10-30-2021, 03:24 AM   #90
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QuoteOriginally posted by LeeRunge Quote
I bought Pentax for weather sealing in 2009. Nikon Z has far surpassed it in that respect.
Has it? Because every release from Pentax since the K-1 or even earlier has had weather sealing (re-issues of older models notwithstanding), including the "kit" DFA 28-105:

On top of that, the Pentax APS-C kit zooms, which are sub-$200, are weather sealed (I've used my 18-55 WR in the rain, actually), while the APS-C Nikon Z are not (16-50 or 50-250). That's a huge omission, IMO. It's the lenses that most people will use with their Z-50s and kind of invalidates having a sealed body...
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