[redpit]

I would not be surprised if it is under $7000 USD

Here in Canada people are hinting at the $8000 dollar mark

Thank you for the relpy Ian. If it is around that price that would be great for MILC Nikonians. It is ~40% the price of the 800/5.6 and although very expensive, those interested in such a lens will see it as a good deal in comparison.

[mee]

Well, I'm using three Pentax rebranded Tamron lenses, and they are pretty good, especially the 70-210. Actually, my 70-210 f/4 has a major advantage over my 70-200 f/2.8. For stitching images the Pentax 70-200 has a nodal point (to avoid parallax errors) moving from the back of the lens up to the front when zooming-in/out, my 200mm rail isn't long enough... The 70-210 is easy the nodal point doesn't move when zooming in/out, so I don't even need a rail. The recent Tamron (or Sigma) lens designs are very good, comparable to OEM, it's not like 20 years ago. Now you can get the Z 28-75 f/2.8 and use the Tam. 70-210 f4 with an adapter. If the 70-180 is also made available for the Z mount, even better. For me, the only thing that Nikon's lacking right now is a Z 70-200 f4 lens. Light weight kit: Z7II, Z 20 1.8, Z 24-70 f/4, Z 70-200 f/4 , 20mm to 200mm capability, DONE.

I agree. I also own that Tamron 70-210 f/4 in F mount (and adapter). I'd still like the native Z version of the 70-180mm f/2.8 one day.

It's funny that 20 years ago I scoffed at Tamron lenses specifically. Thought they were junk. Now I own several Tamron lenses in F mount and want them to sell their products in Z mount. It's quite the turn around due to their turn around on quality.

[biz-engineer]

I agree. I also own that Tamron 70-210 f/4 in F mount (and adapter). I'd still like the native Z version of the 70-180mm f/2.8 one day.

The 70-180 is f2.8 and not much heavier than the 70-210 f4 (not like my 2Kg Pentax 70-200 2.8), so yes, if I was you I'd still prefer the 70-180 2.8 .

---------- Post added 16-12-21 at 17:54 ----------

It's funny that 20 years ago I scoffed at Tamron lenses specifically. Thought they were junk. Now I own several Tamron lenses in F mount and want them to sell their products in Z mount. It's quite the turn around due to their turn around on quality.

Clear. Now, I'd be on the edge to select a camera just because Tamron makes the lenses for it, because the Tamron are probably 95% as good as the OEM, but 30% to 50% cheaper, so I'd easily trade the 5% quality for the lower price.

[mee]

The 70-180 is f2.8 and not much heavier than the 70-210 f4 (not like my 2Kg Pentax 70-200 2.8), so yes, if I was you I'd still prefer the 70-180 2.8 .

---------- Post added 16-12-21 at 17:54 ----------


Clear. Now, I'd be on the edge to select a camera just because Tamron makes the lenses for it, because the Tamron are probably 95% as good as the OEM, but 30% to 50% cheaper, so I'd easily trade the 5% quality for the lower price.

Yep that's what I've said too. I'd only buy the S line zooms if there were no alternatives or I had larges amounts of cash to burn.

[gatorguy]

Nice pairing! That 50 f/1.8 S is just as sharp as the Sigma 50mm f/1.4 ART stopped down to f/1.8 !! And it has a nice rendering both in and out of focus imo.

Haven't had much time with it since receiving it today, but fairly straightforward and intuitive. Shot a couple dozen images with the takeaway that eye-fucus needs to be pretty close to the subject, but face recognition has a far greater range. But it doesn't consistently recognize faces either.

Early impression is I quite like it. Not as ergonomic as my Pentax gear, but quiet and when AF is locked it's pretty reliable.

[mee]

Haven't had much time with it since receiving it today, but fairly straightforward and intuitive. Shot a couple dozen images with the takeaway that eye-fucus needs to be pretty close to the subject, but face recognition has a far greater range. But it doesn't consistently recognize faces either.

Early impression is I quite like it. Not as ergonomic as my Pentax gear, but quiet and when AF is locked it's pretty reliable.

You also may want to ensure it has the latest firmware as that firmware specifically improved the focus tracking and face/eye recognition.


Also there is a mode in the settings to ensure both face AND eye detect are enabled (option 'a4' in the autofocus settings under the pencil icon in the menu). I'm not sure that's enabled by default, seems like it might be on your copy but also might be worth a check to ensure.

But yes the focus mode automatically switches from general box/face to eye depending on distance of subject in frame. That is by design though.

I find it is a really capable body considering only 1k USD and it being the most entry in the Z full frame lineup. Not a miracle worker on face tracking if small in the frame, so expectations need to be tempered imo. Yet a nice body to dabble into mirrorless with or get one's foot in the door if building a system.

[LeeRunge]

I don't see Nikon Z as negative. I have a significant investment in the K mount so I'm nowhere near to switch, but I just find that the Nikon Z FF offering right now is better than Pentax FF offering. There is more choice of Nikon Z lenses than Pentax K, the Z primes are modern and cheaper than Pentax K primes, and the "old" Nikon Z bodies are more advanced that K1II. Nikon is now the value brand that Pentax used to be. The recent introduction of the DFA21 ltd is interesting, it cost 1500 euro, both Nikon 20 1.8 and Sony 20 f1.8 cost under 1000, and most other Z f1.8 primes are also under 800 Euro. Of course I don't like the cheap plastic build of Nikon Z lenses, but the image quality is there, so if I only care about image results Nikon is a good choice right now.

---------- Post added 14-12-21 at 13:30 ----------


You just don't know, let's wait and see.

They also have better weather sealing then Pentax at this point Almost every single lens, prime or zoom is sealed in that Z line up, as much so as the DA* Pentax lenses.

With the trickle down from th e Z9 we'll likely see Z6/7 iii models with top line AF as well.

Z is going to be really good looking at that point.

Plus it's a matter of time before AF adapters for every other mount come along. You already have options for a few with AF, manual focus adapters already exist for everything. The Z mount will be the only one that can do this as Nikon went last and went for the largest mount opening.

---------- Post added 12-20-2021 at 01:20 PM ----------



---------- Post added 12-20-2021 at 01:21 PM ----------

Haven't had much time with it since receiving it today, but fairly straightforward and intuitive. Shot a couple dozen images with the takeaway that eye-fucus needs to be pretty close to the subject, but face recognition has a far greater range. But it doesn't consistently recognize faces either.

Early impression is I quite like it. Not as ergonomic as my Pentax gear, but quiet and when AF is locked it's pretty reliable.

Def check the firmware like mee said above, and I think the Face/eye detection is range specific for depth of field. There isn't any point in having just the eye lock if the whole face is in depth, I think that got misinterpreted as worse in initial reviews. The latest firmware release improved it .

---

Last edited by LeeRunge; 12-20-2021 at 12:24 PM.

[biz-engineer]

They also have better weather sealing then Pentax at this point Almost every single lens, prime or zoom is sealed in that Z line up, as much so as the DA* Pentax lenses.

DA* is old. I don't know why people compare new Nikon product with old Pentax products.

[repaap]

Haven't had much time with it since receiving it today, but fairly straightforward and intuitive. Shot a couple dozen images with the takeaway that eye-fucus needs to be pretty close to the subject, but face recognition has a far greater range. But it doesn't consistently recognize faces either.

Early impression is I quite like it. Not as ergonomic as my Pentax gear, but quiet and when AF is locked it's pretty reliable.

Interesting! Did you compare that with K-3III(eye af and subject recognition(I do recon that it seeks for face instead of body too now with K-3III). now that it has been couple of days you'v got it..

---------- Post added 12-21-21 at 17:14 ----------

DA* is old. I don't know why people compare new Nikon product with old Pentax products.

pretty common is comparison with K-5II or K-3 with some old DA* lenses to new MILC system. Perhaps, because this is whre 'they' -jumped-...?

[gatorguy]

Interesting! Did you compare that with K-3III(eye af and subject recognition(I do recon that it seeks for face instead of body too now with K-3III). now that it has been couple of days you'v got it..[COLOR="Silver"]

I've not taken the two out together yet, but will be doing so over the weekend. I do find the K3III faster to lock in a shot, and focus tracking is better on the K3III than the Nikon IMO. But focus accuracy seems better on the Nikon. Once locked in it's generally been spot on. Eye focus seems to be more of a marketing gimmick on both bodies unless you're in pretty close to the subject. I'd not base any purchase decision on the feature.

I very much like the WYSIWYG on the Nikon, watching the image adjust in real-time when apertures/shutter speeds are changed as it removes the need to chimp (for the most part), but the K3III absolutely beats the Z5 into submission if the light is low, and high ISO images from it are much cleaner. I'm not impressed with Z5 performance in dimmer lighting, and that's one of the areas of interest (stage performances, indoor gigs, evening events) where I've relied on the K3III.

I still have the kit until early next week but I'm not entirely opposed to adding a mirrorless Nikon with perhaps one or two lens only, the Nikkor Z50 1.8 and Nikkor Z 24-70 F4 for example. Anything else would lean on my excellent Pentax glass and manual focus. We will see. So far it seems like it might be a nice addition for outdoor model/portrait work, but I'd be leaning towards the Z7 (II) instead of the Z5 if I did and it's relatively expensive, on par with the K3III price. I'd really have to seriously consider what I'd factually gain by choosing to use it over the K1 I use now for that work. It would also make my "carry two cameras" obsession a little messier.

[mee]

You guys are comparing a 1300 dollar body (that often goes on sale for 1000 dollars) in the Z5 to a 2000 dollar body in the K-3 III.

So I would have no doubt thinking the pricier body would perform better in certain ways. The Z5 comes with a non-BSI sensor, so low light performance isn't going to be as favorable as the BSI sensor based K-3III. You'd have to compare the Z6 II to the K-3 III to get a proper comparison in pricing tiers (both have BSI sensors for one, Z6 II has a purportedly more robust AF Tracking system with dual processors over the Z5 for two).

The Z7 II is 3 grand though at retail, so its in another category above both. Something to consider though -- features in pricing tiers.

[repaap]

I've not taken the two out together yet, but will be doing so over the weekend. I do find the K3III faster to lock in a shot, and focus tracking is better on the K3III than the Nikon IMO. But focus accuracy seems better on the Nikon. Once locked in it's generally been spot on. Eye focus seems to be more of a marketing gimmick on both bodies unless you're in pretty close to the subject. I'd not base any purchase decision on the feature.

I very much like the WYSIWYG on the Nikon, watching the image adjust in real-time when apertures/shutter speeds are changed as it removes the need to chimp (for the most part), but the K3III absolutely beats the Z5 into submission if the light is low, and high ISO images from it are much cleaner. I'm not impressed with Z5 performance in dimmer lighting, and that's one of the areas of interest (stage performances, indoor gigs, evening events) where I've relied on the K3III.

I still have the kit until early next week but I'm not entirely opposed to adding a mirrorless Nikon with perhaps one or two lens only, the Nikkor Z50 1.8 and Nikkor Z 24-70 F4 for example. Anything else would lean on my excellent Pentax glass and manual focus. We will see. So far it seems like it might be a nice addition for outdoor model/portrait work, but I'd be leaning towards the Z7 (II) instead of the Z5 if I did and it's relatively expensive, on par with the K3III price. I'd really have to seriously consider what I'd factually gain by choosing to use it over the K1 I use now for that work. It would also make my "carry two cameras" obsession a little messier.

I have panasonic S5, which i thought I'd have used more, but seems that your findings with Z5 would be pretty much in line with what I see Panasonic is. As well as I do no like EVF. This is one of the reasons why K-3III is much better for my photography. This is why I only use Panasonic if I want High quality video, which is why it was purchased at the first place. I suppose that Nikon AF should be a tad better than Panasonic.? Maybe not.


I'm looking at replacement for Panasonic, and I'd not like to have Sony as I'd like to have very good WR, althou they say it is better in new cameras. I'll keep looking.

---------- Post added 12-21-21 at 21:02 ----------

You guys are comparing a 1300 dollar body (that often goes on sale for 1000 dollars) in the Z5 to a 2000 dollar body in the K-3 III.

So I would have no doubt thinking the pricier body would perform better in certain ways. The Z5 comes with a non-BSI sensor, so low light performance isn't going to be as favorable as the BSI sensor based K-3III. You'd have to compare the Z6 II to the K-3 III to get a proper comparison in pricing tiers (both have BSI sensors for one, Z6 II has a purportedly more robust AF Tracking system with dual processors over the Z5 for two).

The Z7 II is 3 grand though at retail, so its in another category above both. Something to consider though -- features in pricing tiers.

Z6 & Z7 III should be some what interesting. Not sure what II version would add on the table other than tad better AF and FPS?

[mee]

Z6 & Z7 III should be some what interesting. Not sure what II version would add on the table other than tad better AF and FPS?

There are plenty of thorough reviews in text and video to explain the differences. And what I find valuable in a camera may not be what you find valuable. So I won't hazard trying to get into details, however there is more than autofocus tracking and burst rate to consider as differences.


But yes 3rd gens hopefully will get some of the performance improvements of the Z9, if you should desire them. When that will happen and at what price is another story.


I suppose it just comes down to what level of performance is required for your type of photographic application and budget. There are different levels of hardware out there now in Z land for different requirements and they are all rather decent for much photography.

I'm more interested in new lenses coming out now than new bodies. The bodies are all pretty fantastic after firmware updates imo.

[repaap]

There are plenty of thorough reviews in text and video to explain the differences. And what I find valuable in a camera may not be what you find valuable. So I won't hazard trying to get into details, however there is more than autofocus tracking and burst rate to consider as differences.


But yes 3rd gens hopefully will get some of the performance improvements of the Z9, if you should desire them. When that will happen and at what price is another story.


I suppose it just comes down to what level of performance is required for your type of photographic application and budget. There are different levels of hardware out there now in Z land for different requirements and they are all rather decent for much photography.

I'm more interested in new lenses coming out now than new bodies. The bodies are all pretty fantastic after firmware updates imo.

This is true. I'm more after MILC with very good video specs but my absolute top is around 3000€(body). It would be a benefit if my K-mount lenses would be possible to be had around(this seems to be where monster adapter step in picture). I'll see when next gen Z come out. There are plenty alternatives now for what I want/need.

[luftfluss]

DPR has posted their 24-120/4 S gallery:

Nikon Z 24-120mm F4 S sample gallery: Digital Photography Review