Help with marks on film.

Swift1 · 10-03-2010, 10:46 AM

I recently shot a roll with my SV and a few of the frame have some strange marks on them. they are the same 3 marks in the same spot on 3 or 4 different frames. They turn out bright like a light leak would but don't look like any leaks I have seen. Could it be a leak in the shutter curtain? Or a scanning issue?
Any idea what the are?

Vendee · 10-03-2010, 11:29 AM

You could eliminate scanning issues by rotating the neg 180 degrees and seeing if the marks stay on the same side. Looks like light leak to me though. Have you checked both shutter curtains?

PeteyJ · 10-03-2010, 11:53 AM

It looks like it could even be damaged negatives from poor handling. What do the marks look like on the negatives themselves?

fotaki · 10-03-2010, 12:45 PM

Originally posted by PeteyJ

It looks like it could even be damaged negatives from poor handling. What do the marks look like on the negatives themselves?

Agreed. These look like typical 'kink' marks caused in handling/loading of film prior to processing. Did you process the film yourself - say in a spiral unit? If so, then this could account for the marks viz, difficulties in threading the film. Kinking causes localised pressure on the emulsion which results in a higher density in those areas during processing (darker crescents on the film).

If this film was Lab processed then I think you have every right to complain.

Swift1 · 10-03-2010, 01:20 PM

Thanks guys.
I checked the negatives and I couldn't see any thing out of the ordinary, but it definitely makes the most sense.
I didn't really have a cap on the lens for most of the roll, so that makes me wonder about the shutter curtains.

I will have to run another roll through and see what happens.

stevebrot · 10-03-2010, 10:25 PM

They look like kink marks to me too.

Steve

Vendee · 10-03-2010, 10:44 PM

The second shot looks like kink marks but it seems odd that the marks are in the same position on each frame. I can't see how you could kink film with that consistency? You can usually see kink marks on the negs with the naked eye.

PeteyJ · 10-03-2010, 10:54 PM

Originally posted by Vendee

The second shot looks like kink marks but it seems odd that the marks are in the same position on each frame. I can't see how you could kink film with that consistency? You can usually see kink marks on the negs with the naked eye.

A bad developing reel could easily leave a consistent kink mark on the film.

Vendee · 10-04-2010, 12:57 PM

Originally posted by PeteyJ

A bad developing reel could easily leave a consistent kink mark on the film.

How could a bad reel leave a kink mark at the same position on each frame?

PeteyJ · 10-04-2010, 01:40 PM

Originally posted by Vendee

How could a bad reel leave a kink mark at the same position on each frame?

If it's stainless steel, it can't. But with a plastic reel, if there's a warp or other kind of imperfection where you feed the film in, it can leave a kink mark in every frame as you load the film. I just had to buy some new reels not too long ago because a bad reel was messing up my film.

Swift1 · 10-04-2010, 02:15 PM

I looked fairly closely at the negatives and the film is perfectly smooth with no kinks that I could see.

John Poirier · 10-04-2010, 07:07 PM

I think it's more likely a light leak than film kinks. It may be a leak around the mirror. Have you checked to see whether the mirror is closing completely when the shutter is open? (I'd expect the marks to be closer to the film edge if the back was leaking.)

John

Ratmagiclady · 10-04-2010, 07:16 PM

Originally posted by Swift1

I looked fairly closely at the negatives and the film is perfectly smooth with no kinks that I could see.

The key part there is if the emulsion cracked, which doesn't require the film base to take a visible set. We used to call em 'fingernail marks' which would be a big time misnomer.

Vertex Ninja · 10-05-2010, 12:02 PM

Originally posted by Swift1

I looked fairly closely at the negatives and the film is perfectly smooth with no kinks that I could see.

Originally posted by John Poirier

I think it's more likely a light leak than film kinks. ...

Both a light leak and a kink would show up dark(er) on the negative. Maybe the camera loaded the film slightly off, causing these problems until it straightened itself out. If there is nothing on the negative, then I'd look at the scanner. Did you scan these yourself? It could be dust on the the glass, mirrors, or sensor.

For what it's worth, it looks a lot like when I'm a little aggressive with my pressure on the sides of the film during development. Usually if it happens it's on the first or last frame.

10-03-2010, 10:46 AM	#1
Swift1 Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Oregon Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,079	Help with marks on film. I recently shot a roll with my SV and a few of the frame have some strange marks on them. they are the same 3 marks in the same spot on 3 or 4 different frames. They turn out bright like a light leak would but don't look like any leaks I have seen. Could it be a leak in the shutter curtain? Or a scanning issue? Any idea what the are?

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10-03-2010, 11:29 AM	#2
Vendee Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Norfolk, UK Posts: 1,134	You could eliminate scanning issues by rotating the neg 180 degrees and seeing if the marks stay on the same side. Looks like light leak to me though. Have you checked both shutter curtains?

10-03-2010, 11:53 AM	#3
PeteyJ Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Chicago/Cleveland Posts: 176	It looks like it could even be damaged negatives from poor handling. What do the marks look like on the negatives themselves?

10-03-2010, 12:45 PM	#4
fotaki Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Greece and UK Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 309	Originally posted by PeteyJ It looks like it could even be damaged negatives from poor handling. What do the marks look like on the negatives themselves? Agreed. These look like typical 'kink' marks caused in handling/loading of film prior to processing. Did you process the film yourself - say in a spiral unit? If so, then this could account for the marks viz, difficulties in threading the film. Kinking causes localised pressure on the emulsion which results in a higher density in those areas during processing (darker crescents on the film). If this film was Lab processed then I think you have every right to complain.

10-03-2010, 01:20 PM	#5
Swift1 Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Oregon Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,079 Original Poster	Thanks guys. I checked the negatives and I couldn't see any thing out of the ordinary, but it definitely makes the most sense. I didn't really have a cap on the lens for most of the roll, so that makes me wonder about the shutter curtains. I will have to run another roll through and see what happens.

10-03-2010, 10:25 PM	#6
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	They look like kink marks to me too. Steve

10-03-2010, 10:44 PM	#7
Vendee Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Norfolk, UK Posts: 1,134	The second shot looks like kink marks but it seems odd that the marks are in the same position on each frame. I can't see how you could kink film with that consistency? You can usually see kink marks on the negs with the naked eye.

10-03-2010, 10:54 PM	#8
PeteyJ Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Chicago/Cleveland Posts: 176	Originally posted by Vendee The second shot looks like kink marks but it seems odd that the marks are in the same position on each frame. I can't see how you could kink film with that consistency? You can usually see kink marks on the negs with the naked eye. A bad developing reel could easily leave a consistent kink mark on the film.

10-04-2010, 12:57 PM	#9
Vendee Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Norfolk, UK Posts: 1,134	Originally posted by PeteyJ A bad developing reel could easily leave a consistent kink mark on the film. How could a bad reel leave a kink mark at the same position on each frame?

10-04-2010, 01:40 PM	#10
PeteyJ Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Chicago/Cleveland Posts: 176	Originally posted by Vendee How could a bad reel leave a kink mark at the same position on each frame? If it's stainless steel, it can't. But with a plastic reel, if there's a warp or other kind of imperfection where you feed the film in, it can leave a kink mark in every frame as you load the film. I just had to buy some new reels not too long ago because a bad reel was messing up my film.

10-04-2010, 02:15 PM	#11
Swift1 Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Oregon Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,079 Original Poster	I looked fairly closely at the negatives and the film is perfectly smooth with no kinks that I could see.

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10-04-2010, 07:07 PM	#12
John Poirier Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Gabriola Island Posts: 619	I think it's more likely a light leak than film kinks. It may be a leak around the mirror. Have you checked to see whether the mirror is closing completely when the shutter is open? (I'd expect the marks to be closer to the film edge if the back was leaking.) John

10-04-2010, 07:16 PM	#13
Ratmagiclady Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: GA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,563	Originally posted by Swift1 I looked fairly closely at the negatives and the film is perfectly smooth with no kinks that I could see. The key part there is if the emulsion cracked, which doesn't require the film base to take a visible set. We used to call em 'fingernail marks' which would be a big time misnomer.

10-05-2010, 12:02 PM	#14
Vertex Ninja Inactive Account Join Date: May 2007 Location: Indianapolis, Indiana Posts: 652	Originally posted by Swift1 I looked fairly closely at the negatives and the film is perfectly smooth with no kinks that I could see. Originally posted by John Poirier I think it's more likely a light leak than film kinks. ... Both a light leak and a kink would show up dark(er) on the negative. Maybe the camera loaded the film slightly off, causing these problems until it straightened itself out. If there is nothing on the negative, then I'd look at the scanner. Did you scan these yourself? It could be dust on the the glass, mirrors, or sensor. For what it's worth, it looks a lot like when I'm a little aggressive with my pressure on the sides of the film during development. Usually if it happens it's on the first or last frame.