Which camera to replace faulty ME Super ?

LesDMess · 10-30-2011, 06:55 PM

Originally posted by gregmacc

My initial preference was for a nice LX or MX (I really enjoy the solid all metal/mechanical cameras . . . Is there something out there that would allow me to conveniently use the old K mount manual focus lenses and shoot in manual mode (maybe occasionally in aperture priority auto)?

The LX by any measure of quality takes second to no other camera in terms of build. Titanium shutter, full weather sealing, precision film winding, no viewfinder blinds needed and the full compliment of finders/screens that will address any need. Unlike most other cameras capable of aperture priority auto exposure mode that are useless when batteries die, the LX continues the trend set by the Pentax ES and ESII of having numerous shutter speeds available when batteries are dead.

When it comes to aperture priority autoexposure there is no camera - past or present, that can do what the LX can do. First, it's unassisted metering range is unmatched by any camera at EV -6.5 to EV +20. In fact, I am unaware of any light meter that even matches that range either as my Sekonic L358 only has a range of EV-2 to EV 22.9. To go along with this the LX meters off the film that Pentax calls IDM (Integrated Direct Metering). So for very long auto exposures - I've successfully conducted more than 2 hour tests, the LX continuously monitors the scene for changes in lighting and will extend or curtail exposure time accordingly. This is yet another functionality that no other camera can match - past or present. TTL flash also uses this IDM.

You certainly can't go wrong in selecting the LX to replace your ME.

MysteryOnion · 10-30-2011, 09:46 PM

Originally posted by LesDMess

full weather sealing

Not full weather seal, it is more a dirt dust blocking and some moisture. Water can still seep through the following...
shutter knob, release cable hole, advance lever, the timer set button, the rewind knob, lens mount, lens release button. LesDMess is right about all else.

In a pitch the camera could take a splash of water as mine had when a driver was doing over 40mph through a puddle and got me and LX from around twenty feet away. I shock my camera off and ducked into a restaurant to dab off the body and looked good, it survived well with just some work needed to clear the rewind knob. The lens was soaked and required disassembly for clear out the water.

LesDMess · 10-31-2011, 04:50 AM

If you haven't yet, read the attached Popular Photography review of the LX I posted in another thread -> https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-film-slr-discussion/156554-1981-review-pentax-lx.html
In page 104 they actually go through the sealing applied to the LX. Best sealed but not amphibious which is what I consider weather sealed.

MysteryOnion · 10-31-2011, 10:18 AM

I still own the original magazine... As good as Pop-Photo was at reviews at reviews, they came up short of ...

Originally posted by LesDMess

full weather sealing

From the manual as mentioned in the Pop-Photog article "Pentax' credited, this is stressed in the instruction manual"...

"Special gaskets and linings at key points throughout the body make the LX extra durable and resistant to heat, shock and moisture."

"·Although your LX has specially-designed gaskets to minimize the possibility of damage from moisture, it is not waterproof. Several places exist where water can get inside and damage internal mechanisms. Protect both the camera body and lens from rain or splashing water. If the camera should get wet, dry it off immediately when a clean soft cloth. If it becomes submerged in salt water, place it in a pail of fresh water to retard the onset of corrosion and take it immediately to a Pentax Service Center to determine if repairs can be effected."

I know that the LX is a superb camera... but remember that many of the LX bodies have been around for a while and many examples are showing deterioration in the seals and some unauthorized repair places have been known to breach the gaskets and not re-seal (as happened with mine). Having folks read the article is an excellent call and people should read the manuals as well if they are thinking of picking up an LX. I would be careful about saying weather sealed, as it might give some the wrong idea. Unlike a dSLR the likes of K10D, K20D, K7, K5... the selling word for the LX was "sealed against dust and dirt" which was a big deal then. Heed the manual as it implies that you not go looking for bad weather to shoot in, but in a pinch that the seals are there.

Last edited by MysteryOnion; 10-31-2011 at 10:25 AM.

LesDMess · 10-31-2011, 10:56 AM

Like my original 1957 Asahi Pentax, these are fixable.

All you cited are fully dependent on electronics and need much more protection then these classics . . .

jeverettfine · 10-31-2011, 01:57 PM

Originally posted by LesDMess

The LX by any measure of quality takes second to no other camera in terms of build. Titanium shutter, full weather sealing, precision film winding, no viewfinder blinds needed and the full compliment of finders/screens that will address any need. Unlike most other cameras capable of aperture priority auto exposure mode that are useless when batteries die, the LX continues the trend set by the Pentax ES and ESII of having numerous shutter speeds available when batteries are dead.

When it comes to aperture priority autoexposure there is no camera - past or present, that can do what the LX can do. First, it's unassisted metering range is unmatched by any camera at EV -6.5 to EV +20. In fact, I am unaware of any light meter that even matches that range either as my Sekonic L358 only has a range of EV-2 to EV 22.9. To go along with this the LX meters off the film that Pentax calls IDM (Integrated Direct Metering). So for very long auto exposures - I've successfully conducted more than 2 hour tests, the LX continuously monitors the scene for changes in lighting and will extend or curtail exposure time accordingly. This is yet another functionality that no other camera can match - past or present. TTL flash also uses this IDM.

You certainly can't go wrong in selecting the LX to replace your ME.

You sold me. My next film body will be an LX, though I am sure my KX, K2 and MX will not be put away completely.

LesDMess · 10-31-2011, 04:57 PM

But make sure to exercise them all regularly . . .

LesDMess · 10-31-2011, 05:36 PM

Originally posted by MysteryOnion

I still own the original magazine... As good as Pop-Photo was at reviews at reviews, they came up short of ...

Just to be sure, they did not state it, I did. The weakest link of course are the lenses.

Additionally, the LX review at http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/hardwares/classics/pentaxlx/index.htm also cites the weather sealing in the Concept section http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/hardwares/classics/pentaxlx/html/concept.htm.

There is a quote in the section that reads as follows.

Quote:

As one of my good friend, Michael Patrick Wong, an award winning underwater photographers who is a proud owner of six LX bodies said "I have spent the last six years with the LX, in and out of the salt water, 8 hours a day during actual assignment - all survive ! What more can you ask from a camera with this kind of reliability ? while I am not so fortunate with another brand..." I agreed."

MysteryOnion · 10-31-2011, 11:02 PM

LesDMess, I am not looking to make a personal attack here, just throw a caution about a statement about absolute. As superbly as the LXs have been sealed, that optimum is when the seals are new or less than 12 years old. The three LX bodies I have are my insight to the the fact that today, many of the LXs are not going to hold up to extreme use. Folks that are reading these threads and getting great information including most of the stuff you have outlined is great to see, as the LX is one of my very favorites. It is important, however, that also folks read that they can't go to the edge of the seals abilities and interested future owners of the LX should not mis-understand what they can do. Some coming from the dSLR (example, K7, K20D) world and hoping for "full weather seal" are going to get a possible big let down or a very damaged body.

Additional
My LX #1 owned from the beginning: A dishonest repairman breached all my seals and 'F' up my shutter curtain, I did not know for almost five years, but the damp seeping in showed up on the circuitboard... repaired by Eric Hendrickson.

LX # 2: Some seals showing along bottom as possible heat and age. It is maybe that the bottom plate was removed due to a mis-firing magnet. Very common on first-gen bodies. The repair person didn't use the correct seal after?

LX # 3: Ebay "don't know what is wrong" item. All seals breached by someone or natural degrading... doubt it, much still in place to seem in order. Water seep marks in the top deck on the shutter dial side as well as bottom plate from slow infiltration... could be from a wet camera bag. This is a future repair project... because I really like the LX inside and out.

While I will not get a response soon from Mr. Wong, that the fact that he must use an underwater housing and that the resilience of the LX looks to be that it will stand up to high moisture conditions due to condensation is what he seems to be referring. I'm sure he has six LX bodies to rotate for proper maintenance.

LesDMess · 11-01-2011, 04:54 AM

I don't consider your sharing of your own experiences with your LXs to be a personal attack. Since you pointed this out at least three times I am sure you feel strongly about it.

LesDMess · 11-01-2011, 05:25 AM

Here is another very cool site that shows a brochure (?) that states, "Test in artificial rain Pentax technicians regularly submit cases to their goal, taken at random from the production line in a test simulating a severe storm to check the soundness and effectiveness of the seals." Link -> Google Translate

LesDMess · 11-01-2011, 05:28 AM

This is the starting page of the brochure above -> Google Translate
Click on "Suite" to move forward.

Mattco26 · 11-02-2011, 10:36 PM

I love my ME Super but I can't imagine using it in manual mode all the time. I'm not sure why you would do that anyway, tapping those little buttons to get the correct shutter speed is cumbersome and time consuming, the camera will select the correct shutter speed on it's own, that's how it was designed to work. I would suggest getting another ME Super and getting used to aperture-priority mode, as it works beautifully. Or you could look into a ZX-M. It's got aperture priority, full manual, and shutter priority with the KA lenses. The best part is the regular shutter speed dial on top. I don't use mine anymore since I have the Super and a ZX-7 now. PM me if you're interested in it.

womble · 11-04-2011, 03:49 PM

Originally posted by Mattco26

I love my ME Super but I can't imagine using it in manual mode all the time...

I used mine in manual for 15 years or so. I found the Av mode wasn't accurate enough when shooting slides (mainly Kodachrome 64), It would expose for the sky leaving the buildings (or whatever) about a stop or so under-exposed which with slides is not good. Mind you, it isn't that the ME Super was bad in that respect, most cameras I have used are similar.

K.

xwxobs · 12-03-2011, 05:12 PM

I know this is an old thread, but the SLR I like (after first shooting in 1980 with a Yashica GSN rangefinder) is the Ricoh XR-7. Yes, it needs a battery to function, but it is a great camera. It has an electronically-controlled shutter that ranges from 16 secs to 1/1000. More info can be found in this thread:

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-film-slr-discussion/131711-cant-find-much-info-camera-ricoh-xr7.html

10-31-2011, 11:02 PM	#39
MysteryOnion Giveaway winner! Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: beantown Photos: Albums Posts: 944	LesDMess, I am not looking to make a personal attack here, just throw a caution about a statement about absolute. As superbly as the LXs have been sealed, that optimum is when the seals are new or less than 12 years old. The three LX bodies I have are my insight to the the fact that today, many of the LXs are not going to hold up to extreme use. Folks that are reading these threads and getting great information including most of the stuff you have outlined is great to see, as the LX is one of my very favorites. It is important, however, that also folks read that they can't go to the edge of the seals abilities and interested future owners of the LX should not mis-understand what they can do. Some coming from the dSLR (example, K7, K20D) world and hoping for "full weather seal" are going to get a possible big let down or a very damaged body. Additional My LX #1 owned from the beginning: A dishonest repairman breached all my seals and 'F' up my shutter curtain, I did not know for almost five years, but the damp seeping in showed up on the circuitboard... repaired by Eric Hendrickson. LX # 2: Some seals showing along bottom as possible heat and age. It is maybe that the bottom plate was removed due to a mis-firing magnet. Very common on first-gen bodies. The repair person didn't use the correct seal after? LX # 3: Ebay "don't know what is wrong" item. All seals breached by someone or natural degrading... doubt it, much still in place to seem in order. Water seep marks in the top deck on the shutter dial side as well as bottom plate from slow infiltration... could be from a wet camera bag. This is a future repair project... because I really like the LX inside and out. While I will not get a response soon from Mr. Wong, that the fact that he must use an underwater housing and that the resilience of the LX looks to be that it will stand up to high moisture conditions due to condensation is what he seems to be referring. I'm sure he has six LX bodies to rotate for proper maintenance. Last edited by MysteryOnion; 11-01-2011 at 02:16 AM.

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10-30-2011, 06:55 PM	#31
LesDMess Pentaxian Join Date: May 2011 Location: Santa Cruz, CA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,235	Originally posted by gregmacc My initial preference was for a nice LX or MX (I really enjoy the solid all metal/mechanical cameras . . . Is there something out there that would allow me to conveniently use the old K mount manual focus lenses and shoot in manual mode (maybe occasionally in aperture priority auto)? The LX by any measure of quality takes second to no other camera in terms of build. Titanium shutter, full weather sealing, precision film winding, no viewfinder blinds needed and the full compliment of finders/screens that will address any need. Unlike most other cameras capable of aperture priority auto exposure mode that are useless when batteries die, the LX continues the trend set by the Pentax ES and ESII of having numerous shutter speeds available when batteries are dead. When it comes to aperture priority autoexposure there is no camera - past or present, that can do what the LX can do. First, it's unassisted metering range is unmatched by any camera at EV -6.5 to EV +20. In fact, I am unaware of any light meter that even matches that range either as my Sekonic L358 only has a range of EV-2 to EV 22.9. To go along with this the LX meters off the film that Pentax calls IDM (Integrated Direct Metering). So for very long auto exposures - I've successfully conducted more than 2 hour tests, the LX continuously monitors the scene for changes in lighting and will extend or curtail exposure time accordingly. This is yet another functionality that no other camera can match - past or present. TTL flash also uses this IDM. You certainly can't go wrong in selecting the LX to replace your ME.

10-30-2011, 09:46 PM	#32
MysteryOnion Giveaway winner! Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: beantown Photos: Albums Posts: 944	Originally posted by LesDMess full weather sealing Not full weather seal, it is more a dirt dust blocking and some moisture. Water can still seep through the following... shutter knob, release cable hole, advance lever, the timer set button, the rewind knob, lens mount, lens release button. LesDMess is right about all else. In a pitch the camera could take a splash of water as mine had when a driver was doing over 40mph through a puddle and got me and LX from around twenty feet away. I shock my camera off and ducked into a restaurant to dab off the body and looked good, it survived well with just some work needed to clear the rewind knob. The lens was soaked and required disassembly for clear out the water.

10-31-2011, 04:50 AM	#33
LesDMess Pentaxian Join Date: May 2011 Location: Santa Cruz, CA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,235	If you haven't yet, read the attached Popular Photography review of the LX I posted in another thread -> https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-film-slr-discussion/156554-1981-review-pentax-lx.html In page 104 they actually go through the sealing applied to the LX. Best sealed but not amphibious which is what I consider weather sealed.

10-31-2011, 10:18 AM	#34
MysteryOnion Giveaway winner! Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: beantown Photos: Albums Posts: 944	I still own the original magazine... As good as Pop-Photo was at reviews at reviews, they came up short of ... Originally posted by LesDMess full weather sealing From the manual as mentioned in the Pop-Photog article "Pentax' credited, this is stressed in the instruction manual"... "Special gaskets and linings at key points throughout the body make the LX extra durable and resistant to heat, shock and moisture." "·Although your LX has specially-designed gaskets to minimize the possibility of damage from moisture, it is not waterproof. Several places exist where water can get inside and damage internal mechanisms. Protect both the camera body and lens from rain or splashing water. If the camera should get wet, dry it off immediately when a clean soft cloth. If it becomes submerged in salt water, place it in a pail of fresh water to retard the onset of corrosion and take it immediately to a Pentax Service Center to determine if repairs can be effected." I know that the LX is a superb camera... but remember that many of the LX bodies have been around for a while and many examples are showing deterioration in the seals and some unauthorized repair places have been known to breach the gaskets and not re-seal (as happened with mine). Having folks read the article is an excellent call and people should read the manuals as well if they are thinking of picking up an LX. I would be careful about saying weather sealed, as it might give some the wrong idea. Unlike a dSLR the likes of K10D, K20D, K7, K5... the selling word for the LX was "sealed against dust and dirt" which was a big deal then. Heed the manual as it implies that you not go looking for bad weather to shoot in, but in a pinch that the seals are there. Last edited by MysteryOnion; 10-31-2011 at 10:25 AM.

10-31-2011, 10:56 AM	#35
LesDMess Pentaxian Join Date: May 2011 Location: Santa Cruz, CA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,235	Like my original 1957 Asahi Pentax, these are fixable. All you cited are fully dependent on electronics and need much more protection then these classics . . .

10-31-2011, 01:57 PM	#36
jeverettfine Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Austin, Texas Photos: Albums Posts: 328	Originally posted by LesDMess The LX by any measure of quality takes second to no other camera in terms of build. Titanium shutter, full weather sealing, precision film winding, no viewfinder blinds needed and the full compliment of finders/screens that will address any need. Unlike most other cameras capable of aperture priority auto exposure mode that are useless when batteries die, the LX continues the trend set by the Pentax ES and ESII of having numerous shutter speeds available when batteries are dead. When it comes to aperture priority autoexposure there is no camera - past or present, that can do what the LX can do. First, it's unassisted metering range is unmatched by any camera at EV -6.5 to EV +20. In fact, I am unaware of any light meter that even matches that range either as my Sekonic L358 only has a range of EV-2 to EV 22.9. To go along with this the LX meters off the film that Pentax calls IDM (Integrated Direct Metering). So for very long auto exposures - I've successfully conducted more than 2 hour tests, the LX continuously monitors the scene for changes in lighting and will extend or curtail exposure time accordingly. This is yet another functionality that no other camera can match - past or present. TTL flash also uses this IDM. You certainly can't go wrong in selecting the LX to replace your ME. You sold me. My next film body will be an LX, though I am sure my KX, K2 and MX will not be put away completely.

10-31-2011, 04:57 PM	#37
LesDMess Pentaxian Join Date: May 2011 Location: Santa Cruz, CA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,235	But make sure to exercise them all regularly . . .

10-31-2011, 05:36 PM	#38
LesDMess Pentaxian Join Date: May 2011 Location: Santa Cruz, CA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,235	Originally posted by MysteryOnion I still own the original magazine... As good as Pop-Photo was at reviews at reviews, they came up short of ... Just to be sure, they did not state it, I did. The weakest link of course are the lenses. Additionally, the LX review at http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/hardwares/classics/pentaxlx/index.htm also cites the weather sealing in the Concept section http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/hardwares/classics/pentaxlx/html/concept.htm. There is a quote in the section that reads as follows. Quote: As one of my good friend, Michael Patrick Wong, an award winning underwater photographers who is a proud owner of six LX bodies said "I have spent the last six years with the LX, in and out of the salt water, 8 hours a day during actual assignment - all survive ! What more can you ask from a camera with this kind of reliability ? while I am not so fortunate with another brand..." I agreed."

11-01-2011, 04:54 AM	#40
LesDMess Pentaxian Join Date: May 2011 Location: Santa Cruz, CA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,235	I don't consider your sharing of your own experiences with your LXs to be a personal attack. Since you pointed this out at least three times I am sure you feel strongly about it.

11-01-2011, 05:25 AM	#41
LesDMess Pentaxian Join Date: May 2011 Location: Santa Cruz, CA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,235	Here is another very cool site that shows a brochure (?) that states, "Test in artificial rain Pentax technicians regularly submit cases to their goal, taken at random from the production line in a test simulating a severe storm to check the soundness and effectiveness of the seals." Link -> Google Translate

11-01-2011, 05:28 AM	#42
LesDMess Pentaxian Join Date: May 2011 Location: Santa Cruz, CA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,235	This is the starting page of the brochure above -> Google Translate Click on "Suite" to move forward.

11-02-2011, 10:36 PM	#43
Mattco26 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 118	I love my ME Super but I can't imagine using it in manual mode all the time. I'm not sure why you would do that anyway, tapping those little buttons to get the correct shutter speed is cumbersome and time consuming, the camera will select the correct shutter speed on it's own, that's how it was designed to work. I would suggest getting another ME Super and getting used to aperture-priority mode, as it works beautifully. Or you could look into a ZX-M. It's got aperture priority, full manual, and shutter priority with the KA lenses. The best part is the regular shutter speed dial on top. I don't use mine anymore since I have the Super and a ZX-7 now. PM me if you're interested in it.

11-04-2011, 03:49 PM	#44
womble Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Hertfordshire Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,324	Originally posted by Mattco26 I love my ME Super but I can't imagine using it in manual mode all the time... I used mine in manual for 15 years or so. I found the Av mode wasn't accurate enough when shooting slides (mainly Kodachrome 64), It would expose for the sky leaving the buildings (or whatever) about a stop or so under-exposed which with slides is not good. Mind you, it isn't that the ME Super was bad in that respect, most cameras I have used are similar. K.

12-03-2011, 05:12 PM	#45
xwxobs New Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 6	I know this is an old thread, but the SLR I like (after first shooting in 1980 with a Yashica GSN rangefinder) is the Ricoh XR-7. Yes, it needs a battery to function, but it is a great camera. It has an electronically-controlled shutter that ranges from 16 secs to 1/1000. More info can be found in this thread: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-film-slr-discussion/131711-cant-find-much-info-camera-ricoh-xr7.html