[B Grace]

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I've moved from 100% film in 2005 to probably 90% digital today. A couple of thoughts:

On shooting with film, I recommend it provided the cost isn't an issue. Anyone can afford to shoot film if it's budgeted properly. I'd say a person starting a film gear kit should go full manual as any camera offering automated features ends up moving a person away from the goal of shooting film in the first place. A fully automatic film camera might just as well have an electronic sensor in place of the frame of film. Also, I think there is a good risk the next ten years will see consumer grade still photography film for the average shooter disappear completely leaving only expensive full-core art products and unrecognizable pro-grade stuff. A film camera purchased today should be something a person would be happy to keep as a keepsake.

On digital malaise, it's not the digital part of photography we can grow tired of but the process in general. I guess a good question for any of us to ask ourselves is why not just set our digital camera(s) up like film cameras and shoot with them in that manner. Before leaving home, pick an ISO and WB, decide to shoot 36 shots, and then touch nothing but aperture and shutter speed while shooting. Digital shot like film, in other words. It's difficult to force oneself to do but turning off the image review on digital cameras is a major step back to film-like photography.

Finally, I think the issue isn't the type of gear being used but the occasional need to use different gear. A modern DSLR is a pretty sterile feeling device. I'm not sure I'd buy a K1000 because they're obviously expensive compared to other Pentax cameras such as the KM and KX. I think a small kit of Spotmatic gear would be an enjoyable change of pace. Regardless of the film camera used, I'm now thinking more than ever that I need to support Ilford.

[Urkeldaedalus]

As someone who still shoots digital primarily for work, but also owns the FA Limiteds and has dabbled in film recently, I can tell you that using film is a very refreshing contrast and will make your Limiteds feel like different lenses. It has also somewhat tamed my desire to own a fullframe digital camera (unless Pentax eventually decides to make my day and come out with one)

I would also concur that:

1. The PZ-1p (or its cousin the PZ-1) seems to be the best all around Pentax AF camera for the money. But it also is a little bulky for casual use, and I'm looking at trying to find a smaller AF backup camera to use with my FA43 as a walk around camera.

2. Finding a good camera shop to do your developing and scanning (even if you have to mail your film to them) will make your experience a lot better and bring out the richness and quality that film is capable of.

3. I still like digital better for some things (detail shots, landscapes), and I like film better for others (special portraits, evoking a mood). Neither is necessarily better than the other, they're just different, and it's the difference that I value.

[PPPPPP42]

A few more things for me to add (I love giving my 4 cents on this topic).
I personally avoid M42, but if a nice spottie with a good lens on it shows up its worth a look.
Stay away from the DX coding cameras, it was an impressively stupid feature to ever have been added and is not what you would want for creative workings.

Actually if you are going to go with any auto features at all and still have the ability to go 100% manual just go with a Super Program (not to be confused with Program Plus), there is a reason why in the review lists it as the top manual focus film camera aside from the LX. They can be found for absolute pocket change on Ebay in perfect working order with good Pentax A50mm 1.7 or even 1.4 lenses because people forget they exist and always look for other stuff. Then you will start leaning towards A lenses though and those can get pricey. The 2 buttons instead of a stutter dial (same as the newer film 645's) doesn't feel as fun, but its really handy since you can set shutter speed with pointer finger without moving your hands wheras with the K1000 the dial detents are stiff enough that it isn't always possible. Also even with my large hands the K1000 can bit a bit awkward because of its huge overall height, the Super Program is actually very small but has a nice grip on it so it fits the hands well.
My Super Program has reliably done 25 years or so already and I finally sent it off to Eric with a parts camera because it had been rained on so often the insides were getting rusty and the shutter half press was iffy at best, I coulda just taken it out shooting though, very sturdy and it does full manual very well.

Hmm, with its laundry list of high quality manual features and expanded low light sensitivity on the meter over the K1000, I think I'm changing my answer to Super Program with 1.7 or better 50mm lens on it off of ebay. You can still send it to Eric if you want, bout $100 for him to CLA it.

EDIT: The main places where film kicks DSLR ass (at least where Pentax is concerned) is the full frame image, and the dynamic range of film over any sensor. The Pentax FF DSLR will fix the one and the other is slowly being improved but its going to be awhile.

[CMG]

For the reasons you stated I don't believe you will be quite as happy as you think with one of the plastic fantastic auto focus film bodies, they were already leaning towards the camera doing most of the work and a lot of them started getting the kindergarten dial with the happy pictures instead of useful things like shutter speed.

On the other hand using my K1000 is almost Zen photography. When the K20D pisses me off I put it back in the bag and switch to film (mostly all home B&W) I picked the SE one because I like to also have the split prism, but you pay more for that. Most K1000's are overpriced because of their cult status, and anything on ebay not being sold by a reputable camera shop as just CLA'd will need to go to Eric, so add a month or two and $75 or so to the total purchase price.

Stick with the K1000 and M series lenses, all the good A series lenses are absurdly overpriced because they works so well on the DSLR's. You can get M series (or true K series) for usually half the price for the same if not better quality.

The MX is a nice camera but I don't need the DOF preview or self timer and I personally prefer the simplicity of the K1000 match stick meter and controls.
KX is another good possibility due to its slightly improved low light metering, but I have zero experience with them other than they tend to cost more lately.
KM is pretty much the K1000 with DOF preview and self timer.

The LX is not for you unless you are hardcore into film or stupid rich. This one was a steal at this price if that's any indication:
Pentax LX Black Body w/ FA-1 & Grip B, Just Serviced CLAd: Unused, Exc+ Cond! | eBay

If you want to do color film you will be buying a good film scanner, search the film forum for posts on that, or if you want to do darkroom B&W you will have several hundred dollars in used equipment and new chemicals and paper to buy just to get started.

That's exactly where I'm at. Would like to get a K1000 (or SE if I can find one) and get that "Zen" feeling you describe when my K-5 pisses me off. Bonus...learn even more about the nuts and bolts of exposure! Yes, I need to find a good lab to process the film...but I imagine there are a few left even if it's a mail order deal. I'm most interested in B&W anyhow, I convert most of my digital exposures to B&W.

[CMG]

Your thoughts echo a good deal of my criticism of digital.

Some film cameras are no better. I had a Pentax PZ-1P and it was far too complicated for me.

Working magic with your hands and potions in the darkroom is much more fun than mousing on a computer for hours over one lousy frame.
And in the end you've got a paper print to show for it - something real, not just an image on a video screen.

My advice is to get yourself a good Pentax manual focus camera. The K series bodies are my favorites. Have fun!

Chris

I couldn't have said it better myself....and I've tried! Thank you!! Of course, I don't have a dark room, but at one time I had access and it was great....I can't stand PP on my computer. I did make an investment in Pentax Glass....FA31, F43, FA77...but I did so because I felt that I would one day go back to film.
I think I'll pick up a K1000 because the KX bodies are very expensive and I can't find a K1000SE.
Any advice on what to watch out for when purchasing a K Body? Is it best to just buy a used refurbished one from B&H or Adorama?

[PPPPPP42]

A slight bit of patience will go a long way to getting a better camera, good deals slip through all the time. For a K1000 you absolutely have to get one with the Aoco logo on the pentaprism housing and Asahi opt co on the back, the ones without are the craptastic Chinese ones. The ones manufactured in Hong Kong using Japanese parts are just as good and will have the same logos.

Buying one that is stated as already having been serviced from adorama or B&H is good, otherwise get a cheap one and send it to Eric if you are not in a rush. If you do not know which Eric to whom I refer just search for "Eric pentax repair" he has a website.
Something like this: Pentax K1000 SE 35mm film camera & 50mm SMC A lens vtg for repair fix or parts | eBay

Most K1000's come with a 50mm F2 which is a useable good quality lens but I prefer its faster siblings so you are usually better off just getting a body only and picking up lenses separate. The 50mm 1.7 is the best deal of the lot money vs quality wise but I prefer the 1.4.

If you were to buy only one lens for a film camera I would recommend the A35-105 F3.5 it does just about everything you could ever want when its on a FF camera and its great on the DSLR too though a tad narrow for me on the bottom sometimes (like 24mm for crop sensors).

EDIT: a good priced K1000 that has been CLA's normally ends up costing around $100, maybe $150 for an SE. I think Eric charges around $75 for a K1000 CLA.

[CMG]

A slight bit of patience will go a long way to getting a better camera, good deals slip through all the time. For a K1000 you absolutely have to get one with the Aoco logo on the pentaprism housing and Asahi opt co on the back, the ones without are the craptastic Chinese ones. The ones manufactured in Hong Kong using Japanese parts are just as good and will have the same logos.

Buying one that is stated as already having been serviced from adorama or B&H is good, otherwise get a cheap one and send it to Eric if you are not in a rush. If you do not know which Eric to whom I refer just search for "Eric pentax repair" he has a website.
Something like this: Pentax K1000 SE 35mm film camera & 50mm SMC A lens vtg for repair fix or parts | eBay

Most K1000's come with a 50mm F2 which is a useable good quality lens but I prefer its faster siblings so you are usually better off just getting a body only and picking up lenses separate. The 50mm 1.7 is the best deal of the lot money vs quality wise but I prefer the 1.4.

If you were to buy only one lens for a film camera I would recommend the A35-105 F3.5 it does just about everything you could ever want when its on a FF camera and its great on the DSLR too though a tad narrow for me on the bottom sometimes (like 24mm for crop sensors).

EDIT: a good priced K1000 that has been CLA's normally ends up costing around $100, maybe $150 for an SE. I think Eric charges around $75 for a K1000 CLA.

I'm figuring that my FA Limiteds will work with the K1000....yes?

[PPPPPP42]

They will work normally though focus rings on the auto focus lenses are a bit of a short throw (not ideal for fine manual focus) so they take some getting used to. I have never used the FA ltds before so I can't say how they feel in manual focus. Try it in MF on the DSLR, it will work the same.

[patrick9]

KEH also has several K1000's for sale I would check them out also. I've had good luck buying used equipment from them .

[CMG]

They will work normally though focus rings on the auto focus lenses are a bit of a short throw (not ideal for fine manual focus) so they take some getting used to. I have never used the FA ltds before so I can't say how they feel in manual focus. Try it in MF on the DSLR, it will work the same.

The FA Ltds work well in MF on my K-5. Throws are a bit short but OK. Of course a focusing screen would be a blessing!

[CMG]

KEH also has several K1000's for sale I would check them out also. I've had good luck buying used equipment from them .

Cool thanks! Is their stuff refurbished or at least repaired if necessary?

[CMG]

A slight bit of patience will go a long way to getting a better camera, good deals slip through all the time. For a K1000 you absolutely have to get one with the Aoco logo on the pentaprism housing and Asahi opt co on the back, the ones without are the craptastic Chinese ones. The ones manufactured in Hong Kong using Japanese parts are just as good and will have the same logos.

Buying one that is stated as already having been serviced from adorama or B&H is good, otherwise get a cheap one and send it to Eric if you are not in a rush. If you do not know which Eric to whom I refer just search for "Eric pentax repair" he has a website.
Something like this: Pentax K1000 SE 35mm film camera & 50mm SMC A lens vtg for repair fix or parts | eBay

Most K1000's come with a 50mm F2 which is a useable good quality lens but I prefer its faster siblings so you are usually better off just getting a body only and picking up lenses separate. The 50mm 1.7 is the best deal of the lot money vs quality wise but I prefer the 1.4.

If you were to buy only one lens for a film camera I would recommend the A35-105 F3.5 it does just about everything you could ever want when its on a FF camera and its great on the DSLR too though a tad narrow for me on the bottom sometimes (like 24mm for crop sensors).

EDIT: a good priced K1000 that has been CLA's normally ends up costing around $100, maybe $150 for an SE. I think Eric charges around $75 for a K1000 CLA.

Founds Eric's site. Thanks!!

[CMG]

I've moved from 100% film in 2005 to probably 90% digital today. A couple of thoughts:

On shooting with film, I recommend it provided the cost isn't an issue. Anyone can afford to shoot film if it's budgeted properly. I'd say a person starting a film gear kit should go full manual as any camera offering automated features ends up moving a person away from the goal of shooting film in the first place. A fully automatic film camera might just as well have an electronic sensor in place of the frame of film. Also, I think there is a good risk the next ten years will see consumer grade still photography film for the average shooter disappear completely leaving only expensive full-core art products and unrecognizable pro-grade stuff. A film camera purchased today should be something a person would be happy to keep as a keepsake.

On digital malaise, it's not the digital part of photography we can grow tired of but the process in general. I guess a good question for any of us to ask ourselves is why not just set our digital camera(s) up like film cameras and shoot with them in that manner. Before leaving home, pick an ISO and WB, decide to shoot 36 shots, and then touch nothing but aperture and shutter speed while shooting. Digital shot like film, in other words. It's difficult to force oneself to do but turning off the image review on digital cameras is a major step back to film-like photography.

Finally, I think the issue isn't the type of gear being used but the occasional need to use different gear. A modern DSLR is a pretty sterile feeling device. I'm not sure I'd buy a K1000 because they're obviously expensive compared to other Pentax cameras such as the KM and KX. I think a small kit of Spotmatic gear would be an enjoyable change of pace. Regardless of the film camera used, I'm now thinking more than ever that I need to support Ilford.

Really well said and, IMHO, exactly on target!! I try to shoot in M mode on my K-5 and use it like a film camera, but sometimes I switch to Av or Sv when the action is too fast for me to keep up with in M mode (I don't know how photographers did this before semi-auto modes...I guess you just didn't get the shot....maybe that's part of the process, a part that digital is trying to dispense with for better or worse.). As to the difficulty, I think you are right again. I am tempted to make my exposure and then review it on the LCD and play with the custom image settings to see how it would look this way or that way. Then it goes to my computer. Since I shoot JPEG because I just can't see how RAW serves my purposes (I've tried but it just adds to the overall digitizing/sterilizing of the art), I tweak in Picasa because it's the most intuitive and makes me the least frustrated. So it sort of snowballs into this big digital-computer thing and I stop and say wait....I thought I was in this to make exposures as best as I can in the camera and then make some adjustments. I've been reading alot and I see that much of what I thought about "pure" photography was bit of a romantic notion about maestros whose camera spouted out perfection. I realize now that alot of PP went into those shots, but it's darkroom/lab PP which I find fascinating. Staring at my computer just frustrates me and keeps me from enjoying the art of photography...just my opinion. Anyhow, I think your really made an excellent point and I appreciate it because it helped me with my perspective!

[CMG]

As someone who still shoots digital primarily for work, but also owns the FA Limiteds and has dabbled in film recently, I can tell you that using film is a very refreshing contrast and will make your Limiteds feel like different lenses. It has also somewhat tamed my desire to own a fullframe digital camera (unless Pentax eventually decides to make my day and come out with one)

I would also concur that:

1. The PZ-1p (or its cousin the PZ-1) seems to be the best all around Pentax AF camera for the money. But it also is a little bulky for casual use, and I'm looking at trying to find a smaller AF backup camera to use with my FA43 as a walk around camera.

2. Finding a good camera shop to do your developing and scanning (even if you have to mail your film to them) will make your experience a lot better and bring out the richness and quality that film is capable of.

3. I still like digital better for some things (detail shots, landscapes), and I like film better for others (special portraits, evoking a mood). Neither is necessarily better than the other, they're just different, and it's the difference that I value.

Well said! What kinds of film do you use? Where is your lab? Which Pentax manual camera body do you shoot?

[CMG]

You will get more for your money with a KM, KX, K2, MX or ME Super.
Buy a clean functioning body and send it to Eric Hendrickson for CLA.
For a total investment of under $200 you will have a photographic tool that will last a lifetime.

Chris

Awesome! Thanks!