Scanning the film

**pentagor** · 03-21-2008, 01:03 PM

Not sure if this is the right topic, but I'm waiting for my MX-7 body and I also purchased a Canon 8800F scanner. I took some old films, shot with Minolta Dynax camera and tried to scan some pictures.
Here is one (River Themes - London, summer 2003):

Some post processing was done (saturation and sharpness). How do you guys get rid of this litlle tiny dust and hair on the film negative?
And, is it normal, that those scanned images are not sharp at all? Because prints of those negatives are amazing....

deejjjaaaa · 03-21-2008, 01:08 PM

FARE (Canon) = Infrared cleaning - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

PePe · 03-21-2008, 01:57 PM

Dedicated film scanners usually provide superior performance in terms of sharpness and ease of use. They employ advanced methods for dust/scratch removal, as well as better optical quality. The only disadvantage is the price, typically 2 x -3 x more expensive than flatbed scanners.
After learning by doing, I have currently two scanners, a Nikon film scanner and a Canon flatbed scanner. The latter I only use for scanning prints.

**Lowell Goudge** · 03-21-2008, 03:18 PM

I scanned all my slides and negatives using a 2880 dpi minolta dimage II scanner.

each strip of negatives or each slide was handled with clean cotton gloves, and wiped off, then blown off after inserted into the carrier with dust off.

The results yeilded very few dust spots at all (about 20,000 frames scanned)

Nesster · 03-21-2008, 03:29 PM

I think what Deejjjaaaa is saying is that Canon FARE is like Epson ICE - it does a second scan of the negative in the infrared to detect dust, and then has an algorithm to fill in.

It works, in many cases. In others, I find epson's ICE gives me artifacts I don't like - mainly if there's a large sky area for example. (Sort of analogous to when dust on camera sensor is trouble)

The other way, and one I use a lot: spotting with the clone stamp tool in PS.

The cleaner you start the less there is to do.

jgredline · 03-21-2008, 06:49 PM

I have a HP scanner that does both slides and photos. Now from what I read and learned is that HP makes very good scanners but Very Lousy software. I was able to verify this by purchasing Silverfast SE software and what an amazing difference...A pro told me of this and he was spot on.

SilverFast: Scanner Software and Software for Digital Camera and Imaging :: LaserSoft Imaging

séamuis · 03-22-2008, 10:00 AM

I have been looking at the 8800F for scanning of my negatives, but I don't much like the result of this photo...

Mike Cash · 03-22-2008, 04:33 PM

Originally posted by seamuis

I have been looking at the 8800F for scanning of my negatives, but I don't much like the result of this photo...

I picked one up a couple of weeks ago. I'm pretty well satisfied with it. The dust correction thingy works pretty well. Of course, it helps a lot if one is attentive to reducing dust in the first place by using a blower brush on both sides of the negative strip.

I'm having trouble getting VueScan to work with it, but that's something I have to work out with the VueScan guy.

1953 Mamiya Six Model V (6x4.5cm)
Fuji Acros 100
2400dpi

séamuis · 03-23-2008, 05:31 AM

well that photo is quite impressive, but I think the 4400 would probably be all the scanner I need.

johnsey · 03-28-2008, 01:45 PM

Well you can use air, a negative brush, or a a blower. I just blow it of before putting on the bed and clone stamp out the dust just like nesster mentioned. It's normal get used to it.. Dust on the negative or dust on the sensor, welcome to the wonderfull world of digital

Reps · 03-29-2008, 02:36 PM

I must say that 8800F is not bad at all- maybe reviews give a slight edge to Epsons but still I am very satisfied with it. I scan directly into bundled PSE 5.0 as TIFF and after slight corrections export in necessary format depending on "value" of image for me :-) Also bundled Silverfast SE is superb, unluckily it seems that VueScan is no-go for my system: Logitech keyboard-mouse and some other incompatibility issues :-(
Anyway I personally can recommend this scanner due to its great performance and value with supported software versus its price.
Best and happy scanning, JR

Mike Cash · 03-29-2008, 05:41 PM

I resolved my VueScan + 8800F issue last night. It turned out that the problem was having my Canon all-in-one scanner/copier/printer hooked up at the same time as the 8800F. Unplugging the all-in-one's USB cable solved the conflict and VueScan now works fine with the 8800F.

jgredline · 03-29-2008, 06:39 PM

Mike
How do you like View Scan?

Mike Cash · 03-30-2008, 02:44 AM

I love VueScan. I had been using it quite happily with my previous Epson scanner. The software that came bundled with the Epson was pure crap, especially for scanning black and white film. I downloaded it, ran the demo, and after about two or three scans went ahead and paid for it.

I e-mailed Ed Hamrick (the guy behind VueScan) last night for some help and was shocked to find that I had a reply literally within minutes. I expected to have to wait at least a couple of days.

The bundled interface that came with the 8800F isn't horrible...but VueScan is still much better in my opinion.

lithos · 03-30-2008, 08:00 AM

ICE/FARE (different name for the same thing, like SR for Pentax and Super Steady Shot for Sony) works on the principle that the dyes in C41 or E6 film are transparent to infrared light. Dust, of course, isn't. So the software can use this to find the dust, then automatically clone it out with a median filter - just like the Healing Brush in PS.

Note that IR cleaning will increase the time of scanning. And it uses a fair bit of processing power, too.

Oh, and what the bastards don't tell you on the box (because it would seem like a bad thing and might kill a few sales) is that ICE/FARE does not work with Silver Halide BW negatives. Not well.

Silver Halide is completely opaque which is why blacks look none more black (and why BW didn't die out with the advent of C41 BW.) What'll happen if you used IR cleaning on a BW neg is you'll get extremely blocked shadows. Like someone filled them in with the Pencil tool.

I find it's ok to just use white cotton film-handling gloves to gently wipe the film. I should get a nice soft paintbrush, which I promise I will tomorrow, maybe. Canned air is a waste of money.

I'm scanning a roll of Sensia right now, using an Epson 4490, with Vuescan, a great little piece of software. The 4490's a great little scanner, but the film holder is an utter PITA. Rumour has it that you can wetmount film directly onto the glass bed, as the depth of field is good enough, but I've yet to do that seriously. If you're scanning slides, it's easier to have them mounted. You might wanna do the same with negs, if you're desperate.

03-21-2008, 01:03 PM	#1
pentagor Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Ljubljana, Slovenia Posts: 495	Scanning the film Not sure if this is the right topic, but I'm waiting for my MX-7 body and I also purchased a Canon 8800F scanner. I took some old films, shot with Minolta Dynax camera and tried to scan some pictures. Here is one (River Themes - London, summer 2003): Some post processing was done (saturation and sharpness). How do you guys get rid of this litlle tiny dust and hair on the film negative? And, is it normal, that those scanned images are not sharp at all? Because prints of those negatives are amazing....

03-29-2008, 02:36 PM	#11
Reps Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Tartu, Estonia Posts: 159	CanoScan 8800F I must say that 8800F is not bad at all- maybe reviews give a slight edge to Epsons but still I am very satisfied with it. I scan directly into bundled PSE 5.0 as TIFF and after slight corrections export in necessary format depending on "value" of image for me :-) Also bundled Silverfast SE is superb, unluckily it seems that VueScan is no-go for my system: Logitech keyboard-mouse and some other incompatibility issues :-( Anyway I personally can recommend this scanner due to its great performance and value with supported software versus its price. Best and happy scanning, JR

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03-21-2008, 01:08 PM	#2
deejjjaaaa Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: steel city / rust belt Posts: 2,043	FARE (Canon) = Infrared cleaning - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

03-21-2008, 01:57 PM	#3
PePe Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Helsinki, Finland Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 597	Dedicated film scanners usually provide superior performance in terms of sharpness and ease of use. They employ advanced methods for dust/scratch removal, as well as better optical quality. The only disadvantage is the price, typically 2 x -3 x more expensive than flatbed scanners. After learning by doing, I have currently two scanners, a Nikon film scanner and a Canon flatbed scanner. The latter I only use for scanning prints.

03-21-2008, 03:18 PM	#4
Lowell Goudge Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,886	I scanned all my slides and negatives using a 2880 dpi minolta dimage II scanner. each strip of negatives or each slide was handled with clean cotton gloves, and wiped off, then blown off after inserted into the carrier with dust off. The results yeilded very few dust spots at all (about 20,000 frames scanned)

03-21-2008, 03:29 PM	#5
Nesster Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: NJ USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 13,072	I think what Deejjjaaaa is saying is that Canon FARE is like Epson ICE - it does a second scan of the negative in the infrared to detect dust, and then has an algorithm to fill in. It works, in many cases. In others, I find epson's ICE gives me artifacts I don't like - mainly if there's a large sky area for example. (Sort of analogous to when dust on camera sensor is trouble) The other way, and one I use a lot: spotting with the clone stamp tool in PS. The cleaner you start the less there is to do.

03-21-2008, 06:49 PM	#6
jgredline Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: LosAngeles, Ca. Photos: Albums Posts: 10,628	I have a HP scanner that does both slides and photos. Now from what I read and learned is that HP makes very good scanners but Very Lousy software. I was able to verify this by purchasing Silverfast SE software and what an amazing difference...A pro told me of this and he was spot on. SilverFast: Scanner Software and Software for Digital Camera and Imaging :: LaserSoft Imaging

03-22-2008, 10:00 AM	#7
séamuis Banned Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Savannah, U.S./Baguio City, P.H. Posts: 5,979	I have been looking at the 8800F for scanning of my negatives, but I don't much like the result of this photo...

03-22-2008, 04:33 PM	#8
Mike Cash Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Japan Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,950	Originally posted by seamuis I have been looking at the 8800F for scanning of my negatives, but I don't much like the result of this photo... I picked one up a couple of weeks ago. I'm pretty well satisfied with it. The dust correction thingy works pretty well. Of course, it helps a lot if one is attentive to reducing dust in the first place by using a blower brush on both sides of the negative strip. I'm having trouble getting VueScan to work with it, but that's something I have to work out with the VueScan guy. 1953 Mamiya Six Model V (6x4.5cm) Fuji Acros 100 2400dpi

03-23-2008, 05:31 AM	#9
séamuis Banned Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Savannah, U.S./Baguio City, P.H. Posts: 5,979	well that photo is quite impressive, but I think the 4400 would probably be all the scanner I need.

03-28-2008, 01:45 PM	#10
johnsey Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Fargo, ND Posts: 113	Well you can use air, a negative brush, or a a blower. I just blow it of before putting on the bed and clone stamp out the dust just like nesster mentioned. It's normal get used to it.. Dust on the negative or dust on the sensor, welcome to the wonderfull world of digital

03-29-2008, 05:41 PM	#12
Mike Cash Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Japan Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,950	I resolved my VueScan + 8800F issue last night. It turned out that the problem was having my Canon all-in-one scanner/copier/printer hooked up at the same time as the 8800F. Unplugging the all-in-one's USB cable solved the conflict and VueScan now works fine with the 8800F.

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03-29-2008, 06:39 PM	#13
jgredline Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: LosAngeles, Ca. Photos: Albums Posts: 10,628	Mike How do you like View Scan?

03-30-2008, 02:44 AM	#14
Mike Cash Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Japan Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,950	I love VueScan. I had been using it quite happily with my previous Epson scanner. The software that came bundled with the Epson was pure crap, especially for scanning black and white film. I downloaded it, ran the demo, and after about two or three scans went ahead and paid for it. I e-mailed Ed Hamrick (the guy behind VueScan) last night for some help and was shocked to find that I had a reply literally within minutes. I expected to have to wait at least a couple of days. The bundled interface that came with the 8800F isn't horrible...but VueScan is still much better in my opinion.

03-30-2008, 08:00 AM	#15
lithos Inactive Account Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Brisbane, QLD, AUS Posts: 3,261	ICE/FARE (different name for the same thing, like SR for Pentax and Super Steady Shot for Sony) works on the principle that the dyes in C41 or E6 film are transparent to infrared light. Dust, of course, isn't. So the software can use this to find the dust, then automatically clone it out with a median filter - just like the Healing Brush in PS. Note that IR cleaning will increase the time of scanning. And it uses a fair bit of processing power, too. Oh, and what the bastards don't tell you on the box (because it would seem like a bad thing and might kill a few sales) is that ICE/FARE does not work with Silver Halide BW negatives. Not well. Silver Halide is completely opaque which is why blacks look none more black (and why BW didn't die out with the advent of C41 BW.) What'll happen if you used IR cleaning on a BW neg is you'll get extremely blocked shadows. Like someone filled them in with the Pencil tool. I find it's ok to just use white cotton film-handling gloves to gently wipe the film. I should get a nice soft paintbrush, which I promise I will tomorrow, maybe. Canned air is a waste of money. I'm scanning a roll of Sensia right now, using an Epson 4490, with Vuescan, a great little piece of software. The 4490's a great little scanner, but the film holder is an utter PITA. Rumour has it that you can wetmount film directly onto the glass bed, as the depth of field is good enough, but I've yet to do that seriously. If you're scanning slides, it's easier to have them mounted. You might wanna do the same with negs, if you're desperate.