Which Pentax film camera is equal to Nikon FM2

stevebrot · 12-16-2014, 02:06 PM

Originally posted by Cuthbert

As you can see the "blades" are basically eternal but the ribbons worn out so that's what you have to do if your Contax doesn't work.

That is a cool illustration showing the Contax shutter and its tambour-style curtains. I had to laugh when you used the word speed to describe its operation. The distance may be half, but the shutter crawls across it. X flash sync was only 1/25s. In regards to the ribbons, I was surprised to find that those are readily available. Aki-Asahi in Japan sells them and I believe they are available elsewhere too.

Steve

stevebrot · 12-16-2014, 02:11 PM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by LesDMess

I have not disassembled any yet but that 30s Zeiss metal vertically travelling shutter looks like the same arrangement as the horizontal except vertically laid out?

The ribbons drive the curtains and most owners of Contax or Kiev who actually use their cameras will have to replace them at some point. Rick Oleson has provided detailed instructions. Contax Shutter Ribbons

Steve

Cuthbert · 12-16-2014, 02:12 PM

No, it's made of metal blades (rigid like a garage gate) and it's rolled on the top but the ribbons run inside the tracks, unlike a cloth shutter, that's the reason why the ribbons wear out.

And Contax could achieve 1/1250s (!!!) instead of 1/1000 of the Leica...yes they heavily advertised the advantage!

LesDMess · 12-16-2014, 02:17 PM

Originally posted by stevebrot

That is a cool illustration showing the Contax shutter and its tambour-style curtains. I had to laugh when you used the word speed to describe its operation. The distance may be half, but the shutter crawls across it. X flash sync was only 1/25s. In regards to the ribbons, I was surprised to find that those are readily available. Aki-Asahi in Japan sells them and I believe they are available elsewhere too.
Steve

Probably sync speed wasn't so important back then but I had no idea 1/25!

Cuthbert · 12-16-2014, 02:24 PM

Originally posted by LesDMess

Probably sync speed wasn't so important back then but I had no idea 1/25!

We are talking about 1936, guys!!!

Hitler was in power, the USA were still in recession, Franco had just started the civil war against the Spanish Repubblic, Stalin had just started the great purges in Soviet Union and...a top speed of 1/1250s for a shutter was something unheard until then.

Personally I've seen a Contax II exploded (=completely disassembled) on Castelli's table and I remained fascinated by the complexity and the engineering refinement of something built almost 80 years ago. Today with 3D CADs, FEA etc... we can do stuff like that relatively easily, but I wonder how many engineers they needed just to draw all the drawings by hand and make everything work back then.

LesDMess · 12-16-2014, 02:38 PM

Originally posted by Cuthbert

We are talking about 1936, guys!!!

Hitler was in power, the USA were still in recession, Franco had just started the civil war against the Spanish Repubblic, Stalin had just started the great purges in Soviet Union and...a top speed of 1/1250s for a shutter was something unheard until then.

Probably didn't have internet back then either . . .

I do tend to keep timelines into perspective when I went on my manual cameras exploration.

stevebrot · 12-16-2014, 02:47 PM

Originally posted by LesDMess

Probably sync speed wasn't so important back then but I had no idea 1/25!

The screw-mount Leica's were about the same. I don't believe for those that had sync, any got above 1/30s. Heck, my Pentax SV ~~only syncs at 1/45s~~ will only sync with electronic flash at X (1/50s) and lower.

The cool thing about the Contax shutter is that it is easy to demonstrate how the fast speeds for a focal plane shutter work. The curtain travel is sufficiently slow that the width of the opening is easy to see.

Steve

Last edited by stevebrot; 12-16-2014 at 03:31 PM.

LesDMess · 12-16-2014, 02:53 PM

Originally posted by stevebrot

The screw-mount Leica's were about the same. I don't believe for those that had sync, any got above 1/30s. Heck, my Pentax SV only syncs at 1/45s.

The cool thing about the Contax shutter is that it is easy to demonstrate how the fast speeds for a focal plane shutter work. The curtain travel is sufficiently slow that the width of the opening is easy to see.

Steve

My original AP manual lists X as in between 1/25 and 1/50. It shows FP flash as good from 1/500 1/25 and electronic flash from X down to B.

stevebrot · 12-16-2014, 03:29 PM

Originally posted by LesDMess

It shows FP flash as good from 1/500 1/25 and electronic flash from X down to B.

My grammar was poor. I should have said, "My SV only has X sync at 1/45s* and lower". I will correct.

Steve

* actually 1/50s per the manual

Pioneer · 12-20-2014, 10:18 PM

I do believe that the relatively slow shutter travel speed of the Contax is what helps ensure the longevity of the blades, probably the ribbons as well. The much faster speeds achieved with the more modern vertical shutters would probably tear apart the Contax shutter. But it is still a magnificent engineering feat for 1936, and still a wonderful camera all these years later.

stevebrot · 12-21-2014, 05:00 PM

Originally posted by Pioneer

I do believe that the relatively slow shutter travel speed of the Contax is what helps ensure the longevity of the blades, probably the ribbons as well. The much faster speeds achieved with the more modern vertical shutters would probably tear apart the Contax shutter. But it is still a magnificent engineering feat for 1936, and still a wonderful camera all these years later.

I agree! I can't image the Contax shutter in transit at 4+ m/s

Steve

(...clackety clack...)

Pioneer · 12-22-2014, 06:41 PM

Originally posted by stevebrot

I agree! I can't image the Contax shutter in transit at 4+ m/s

Steve

(...clackety clack...)

Yes, it does kind of boggle the mind.

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12-16-2014, 02:06 PM	#46
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by Cuthbert As you can see the "blades" are basically eternal but the ribbons worn out so that's what you have to do if your Contax doesn't work. That is a cool illustration showing the Contax shutter and its tambour-style curtains. I had to laugh when you used the word speed to describe its operation. The distance may be half, but the shutter crawls across it. X flash sync was only 1/25s. In regards to the ribbons, I was surprised to find that those are readily available. Aki-Asahi in Japan sells them and I believe they are available elsewhere too. Steve

12-16-2014, 02:11 PM - 2 Likes	#47
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by LesDMess I have not disassembled any yet but that 30s Zeiss metal vertically travelling shutter looks like the same arrangement as the horizontal except vertically laid out? The ribbons drive the curtains and most owners of Contax or Kiev who actually use their cameras will have to replace them at some point. Rick Oleson has provided detailed instructions. Contax Shutter Ribbons Steve

12-16-2014, 02:12 PM	#48
Cuthbert Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,740	No, it's made of metal blades (rigid like a garage gate) and it's rolled on the top but the ribbons run inside the tracks, unlike a cloth shutter, that's the reason why the ribbons wear out. And Contax could achieve 1/1250s (!!!) instead of 1/1000 of the Leica...yes they heavily advertised the advantage!

12-16-2014, 02:17 PM	#49
LesDMess Pentaxian Join Date: May 2011 Location: Santa Cruz, CA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,235	Originally posted by stevebrot That is a cool illustration showing the Contax shutter and its tambour-style curtains. I had to laugh when you used the word speed to describe its operation. The distance may be half, but the shutter crawls across it. X flash sync was only 1/25s. In regards to the ribbons, I was surprised to find that those are readily available. Aki-Asahi in Japan sells them and I believe they are available elsewhere too. Steve Probably sync speed wasn't so important back then but I had no idea 1/25!

12-16-2014, 02:24 PM	#50
Cuthbert Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,740	Originally posted by LesDMess Probably sync speed wasn't so important back then but I had no idea 1/25! We are talking about 1936, guys!!! Hitler was in power, the USA were still in recession, Franco had just started the civil war against the Spanish Repubblic, Stalin had just started the great purges in Soviet Union and...a top speed of 1/1250s for a shutter was something unheard until then. Personally I've seen a Contax II exploded (=completely disassembled) on Castelli's table and I remained fascinated by the complexity and the engineering refinement of something built almost 80 years ago. Today with 3D CADs, FEA etc... we can do stuff like that relatively easily, but I wonder how many engineers they needed just to draw all the drawings by hand and make everything work back then.

12-16-2014, 02:38 PM	#51
LesDMess Pentaxian Join Date: May 2011 Location: Santa Cruz, CA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,235	Originally posted by Cuthbert We are talking about 1936, guys!!! Hitler was in power, the USA were still in recession, Franco had just started the civil war against the Spanish Repubblic, Stalin had just started the great purges in Soviet Union and...a top speed of 1/1250s for a shutter was something unheard until then. Probably didn't have internet back then either . . . I do tend to keep timelines into perspective when I went on my manual cameras exploration.

12-16-2014, 02:47 PM	#52
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by LesDMess Probably sync speed wasn't so important back then but I had no idea 1/25! The screw-mount Leica's were about the same. I don't believe for those that had sync, any got above 1/30s. Heck, my Pentax SV ~~only syncs at 1/45s~~ will only sync with electronic flash at X (1/50s) and lower. The cool thing about the Contax shutter is that it is easy to demonstrate how the fast speeds for a focal plane shutter work. The curtain travel is sufficiently slow that the width of the opening is easy to see. Steve Last edited by stevebrot; 12-16-2014 at 03:31 PM.

12-16-2014, 02:53 PM	#53
LesDMess Pentaxian Join Date: May 2011 Location: Santa Cruz, CA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,235	Originally posted by stevebrot The screw-mount Leica's were about the same. I don't believe for those that had sync, any got above 1/30s. Heck, my Pentax SV only syncs at 1/45s. The cool thing about the Contax shutter is that it is easy to demonstrate how the fast speeds for a focal plane shutter work. The curtain travel is sufficiently slow that the width of the opening is easy to see. Steve My original AP manual lists X as in between 1/25 and 1/50. It shows FP flash as good from 1/500 1/25 and electronic flash from X down to B.

12-16-2014, 03:29 PM	#54
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by LesDMess It shows FP flash as good from 1/500 1/25 and electronic flash from X down to B. My grammar was poor. I should have said, "My SV only has X sync at 1/45s* and lower". I will correct. Steve * actually 1/50s per the manual

12-20-2014, 10:18 PM	#55
Pioneer Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Wandering the Streets Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,411	I do believe that the relatively slow shutter travel speed of the Contax is what helps ensure the longevity of the blades, probably the ribbons as well. The much faster speeds achieved with the more modern vertical shutters would probably tear apart the Contax shutter. But it is still a magnificent engineering feat for 1936, and still a wonderful camera all these years later.

12-21-2014, 05:00 PM	#56
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by Pioneer I do believe that the relatively slow shutter travel speed of the Contax is what helps ensure the longevity of the blades, probably the ribbons as well. The much faster speeds achieved with the more modern vertical shutters would probably tear apart the Contax shutter. But it is still a magnificent engineering feat for 1936, and still a wonderful camera all these years later. I agree! I can't image the Contax shutter in transit at 4+ m/s Steve (...clackety clack...)

12-22-2014, 06:41 PM	#57
Pioneer Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Wandering the Streets Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,411	Originally posted by stevebrot I agree! I can't image the Contax shutter in transit at 4+ m/s Steve (...clackety clack...) Yes, it does kind of boggle the mind.