Which budget AF SLR would you recommend?

**todd** · 05-16-2014, 03:24 PM

Originally posted by chickentender

Edit: except the OP specifically specified and cheap AF cam, which that is not which renders most of this post of mine irrelevant. Move along.

You got me looking at the MX... How would my experience with that compare to my experience with ME Super, do you think? They seem about the same to me on paper but I noticed that the MX has a higher rating...

Eyewanders · 05-16-2014, 03:51 PM

Originally posted by todd

You got me looking at the MX... How would my experience with that compare to my experience with ME Super, do you think? They seem about the same to me on paper but I noticed that the MX has a higher rating...

I take it this question is unrelated to your search for a cheap AF camera, yes?

The MX and ME Super are similar in size, but the handling is completely different. I have never owned an ME Super but I've shot one a number of times over the years. They are geared toward program mode (aperture priority) while the MX is fully manual and mechanical. They both take pictures and both are very well built but in operation it's just a very different "flow" for lack of a better word. I've often thought about picking up a Super ME simply because I often work in aperture priority when using digitals.

**todd** · 05-16-2014, 04:52 PM

Originally posted by chickentender

I take it this question is unrelated to your search for a cheap AF camera, yes?

The MX and ME Super are similar in size, but the handling is completely different. I have never owned an ME Super but I've shot one a number of times over the years. They are geared toward program mode (aperture priority) while the MX is fully manual and mechanical. They both take pictures and both are very well built but in operation it's just a very different "flow" for lack of a better word. I've often thought about picking up a Super ME simply because I often work in aperture priority when using digitals.

Yes, Just looking at all possibilities. You didn't mention it being any easier/quicker to dial in the focus, which I figured wouldn't be your response. I have a feeling if I was shooting a higher volume of film, I'd get better at my focusing, but I have had some bummer scenarios (shots of the kids that were spoiled by my mis-focusings) with the ME Super. Strange for me that even with the larger viewfinder of the ME Super, I find myself able to manual focus much easier with the K5 than on film, not that that I do it a ton... It might be focus confirmation that I lean on... Although to be fair, I don't think I go it in manual focus very often when doing my kiddo shots. with the K5 either...

Eyewanders · 05-16-2014, 06:10 PM

Kid shots are tough to nail manually no matter the camera. You might try a different focusing screen - I can't recall if the ME Super is able to swap them or no but I'm sure someone else can chime in. I'd say I use MF 80% of the time and it truly does simply take practice. On my digital however, the K5 before and now the K3, a focusing screen change made all the difference for me, but that will vary on personal preference.

weijen · 05-16-2014, 07:49 PM

I thought the OP wanted an AF camera. Why did MX and ME come in? ;D

Anyway, my experience:
Best viewfinder ever: SFX(n) (0.81x)
Best lens compatibility: Z-1, Z-20, MZ-7, MZ-6 (Z-70 does not allow ISO override)
Best hardware compatibility: MZ-7, MZ-6 (they support wireless shutter trigger and the MZ-6 supports P-TTL)

The Z bodies seem to have the least problems. I've never seen anyone complaining of a stuck mirror in a Z body here.

Swift1 · 05-16-2014, 08:14 PM

Originally posted by weijen

I thought the OP wanted an AF camera. Why did MX and ME come in? ;D

Anyway, my experience:
Best viewfinder ever: SFX(n) (0.81x)
Best lens compatibility: Z-1, Z-20, MZ-7, MZ-6 (Z-70 does not allow ISO override)
Best hardware compatibility: MZ-7, MZ-6 (they support wireless shutter trigger and the MZ-6 supports P-TTL)

The Z bodies seem to have the least problems. I've never seen anyone complaining of a stuck mirror in a Z body here.

I've had the stuck mirror problem with a PZ-1

If the OP doesn't need ISO override, the SF7/SF10 can be picked up for next to nothing and is actually a decent camera.

For what they sell for, the ZX-L/MZ-6 is a superb little camera.

p38arover · 05-16-2014, 08:21 PM

I have an SFX and SF7 - I prefer the SFX which can be picked up quite cheaply.

**arnold** · 05-16-2014, 08:48 PM

Originally posted by todd

, I'd get better at my focusing, but I have had some bummer scenarios

Having learned on cameras without any focusing aids, I am somewhat puzzled when others have trouble with focus. When my MX was my main camera and I was planning some shooting that day, I would preset my speed and aperture to the expected light conditions, and set my focus to the distance I was expecting to use. An unexpected photo opportunity could be taken advantage of in an instant, even if all parameters weren't perfect.
Try estimating your distances as a confirmation of what is set on the lens. If you can guess the distance of your outstretched arms (6 feet), then you can guess half that or double that. Avoid large apertures if not needed for more depth of focus.

**todd** · 05-16-2014, 09:08 PM

Originally posted by chickentender

different focusing screen

I've flirted with the idea at points in the past for the K5 but have kept putting it off... Wiki says the finder is fixed in the Super... Me thinks I just keep using the Super but also land an AF body...

---------- Post added 05-16-14 at 09:17 PM ----------

Originally posted by arnold

Having learned on cameras without any focusing aids, I am somewhat puzzled when others have trouble with focus. When my MX was my main camera and I was planning some shooting that day, I would preset my speed and aperture to the expected light conditions, and set my focus to the distance I was expecting to use. An unexpected photo opportunity could be taken advantage of in an instant, even if all parameters weren't perfect.
Try estimating your distances as a confirmation of what is set on the lens. If you can guess the distance of your outstretched arms (6 feet), then you can guess half that or double that. Avoid large apertures if not needed for more depth of focus.

I've done this to some extent and it does help... It seems like I spend a lot of time second guessing myself during the take, while also trying to shoot at wide apertures a lot. I feel a lot of pressure to make every shot count with film, and that pressure is counter productive.. I've gotten better at the manual focusing, but I've only shot a few rolls and it has been feeling like a lot of work. I think I need to burn a few (less expensive than portra) rolls not shooting the kids, to get more comfortable and confident. And yes, I realized when I started shooting film how reliant I was on focus confirmation! Ugh

Thanks everybody for the input!

By the way, the two right now that I've been watching that are coming due this weekend over at goodwill.com (and still at low dollars ) are a ZX-7 and a PZ-10

I sure have noticed how there is an abundance of MZ-50's on the market. Makes me think to avoid...

kdf9511 · 05-16-2014, 11:13 PM

Originally posted by todd

I've flirted with the idea at points in the past for the K5 but have kept putting it off... Wiki says the finder is fixed in the Super... Me thinks I just keep using the Super but also land an AF body...

---------- Post added 05-16-14 at 09:17 PM ----------

I've done this to some extent and it does help... It seems like I spend a lot of time second guessing myself during the take, while also trying to shoot at wide apertures a lot. I feel a lot of pressure to make every shot count with film, and that pressure is counter productive.. I've gotten better at the manual focusing, but I've only shot a few rolls and it has been feeling like a lot of work. I think I need to burn a few (less expensive than portra) rolls not shooting the kids, to get more comfortable and confident. And yes, I realized when I started shooting film how reliant I was on focus confirmation! Ugh

Thanks everybody for the input!

By the way, the two right now that I've been watching that are coming due this weekend over at goodwill.com (and still at low dollars ) are a ZX-7 and a PZ-10

I sure have noticed how there is an abundance of MZ-50's on the market. Makes me think to avoid...

I don't think you could go wrong with the ZX-7. As a photographer that at the time had almost no clue about photography I got some pretty good pictures out of mine.

**patjp** · 05-16-2014, 11:44 PM

If you do pick up an MZ or ZX also look out for a cheap FG grip. It will not only make the camera a bit easier to hold but also lets you use Eneloop or similar AA batteries. Much cheaper than the standard CR batteries.

weijen · 05-17-2014, 12:27 AM

Originally posted by Swift1

I've had the stuck mirror problem with a PZ-1

If the OP doesn't need ISO override, the SF7/SF10 can be picked up for next to nothing and is actually a decent camera.

For what they sell for, the ZX-L/MZ-6 is a superb little camera.

The SF bodies has got a very cool built-in AF spotbeam. It projects a pattern when it's dark. So the "crappy no one's bidding even if it's a dollar" SF7 can nail the K-3 anytime at focusing on a blank wall! For its worth, the SFX is the better body. It has 3 program modes that allows more control if you plan to use DA lenses.

Originally posted by Swift1

I've had the stuck mirror problem with a PZ-1

Oh.. I thought that was supposed to be a tough camera!

hks_kansei · 05-17-2014, 01:50 AM

Another vote here for the SFX, I pretty much learned photography on an SFXn and a Super-A.

The SFX was a great camera, can't remember it ever having a single fault.

weijen · 05-17-2014, 02:01 AM

Originally posted by hks_kansei

Another vote here for the SFX, I pretty much learned photography on an SFXn and a Super-A.

The SFX was a great camera, can't remember it ever having a single fault.

The SFX is a very good looking camera. Totally oozing with that 80's boxy retro look. On the other hand, I feel the PZ-1 is the ugliest camera Pentax ever made. It's subjective though. Once you got used to the SFX's viewfinder, you won't want to look through the viewfinder of any other AF cameras. Even the MZ-S viewfinder is dinky compared to this one.

**gofour3** · 05-17-2014, 07:11 AM

Originally posted by arnold

Having learned on cameras without any focusing aids, I am somewhat puzzled when others have trouble with focus. When my MX was my main camera and I was planning some shooting that day, I would preset my speed and aperture to the expected light conditions, and set my focus to the distance I was expecting to use. An unexpected photo opportunity could be taken advantage of in an instant, even if all parameters weren't perfect.
Try estimating your distances as a confirmation of what is set on the lens. If you can guess the distance of your outstretched arms (6 feet), then you can guess half that or double that. Avoid large apertures if not needed for more depth of focus.

+1

That’s the way I shoot most of the time. I’ve never owned/used an AF camera and for me there is no reason to.

Phil.

05-16-2014, 09:08 PM	#24
todd Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Arizona Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,799 Original Poster	Originally posted by chickentender different focusing screen I've flirted with the idea at points in the past for the K5 but have kept putting it off... Wiki says the finder is fixed in the Super... Me thinks I just keep using the Super but also land an AF body... ---------- Post added 05-16-14 at 09:17 PM ---------- Originally posted by arnold Having learned on cameras without any focusing aids, I am somewhat puzzled when others have trouble with focus. When my MX was my main camera and I was planning some shooting that day, I would preset my speed and aperture to the expected light conditions, and set my focus to the distance I was expecting to use. An unexpected photo opportunity could be taken advantage of in an instant, even if all parameters weren't perfect. Try estimating your distances as a confirmation of what is set on the lens. If you can guess the distance of your outstretched arms (6 feet), then you can guess half that or double that. Avoid large apertures if not needed for more depth of focus. I've done this to some extent and it does help... It seems like I spend a lot of time second guessing myself during the take, while also trying to shoot at wide apertures a lot. I feel a lot of pressure to make every shot count with film, and that pressure is counter productive.. I've gotten better at the manual focusing, but I've only shot a few rolls and it has been feeling like a lot of work. I think I need to burn a few (less expensive than portra) rolls not shooting the kids, to get more comfortable and confident. And yes, I realized when I started shooting film how reliant I was on focus confirmation! Ugh Thanks everybody for the input! By the way, the two right now that I've been watching that are coming due this weekend over at goodwill.com (and still at low dollars ) are a ZX-7 and a PZ-10 I sure have noticed how there is an abundance of MZ-50's on the market. Makes me think to avoid... Last edited by todd; 05-16-2014 at 09:49 PM.

05-17-2014, 12:27 AM	#27
weijen Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 105	Originally posted by Swift1 I've had the stuck mirror problem with a PZ-1 If the OP doesn't need ISO override, the SF7/SF10 can be picked up for next to nothing and is actually a decent camera. For what they sell for, the ZX-L/MZ-6 is a superb little camera. The SF bodies has got a very cool built-in AF spotbeam. It projects a pattern when it's dark. So the "crappy no one's bidding even if it's a dollar" SF7 can nail the K-3 anytime at focusing on a blank wall! For its worth, the SFX is the better body. It has 3 program modes that allows more control if you plan to use DA lenses. Originally posted by Swift1 I've had the stuck mirror problem with a PZ-1 Oh.. I thought that was supposed to be a tough camera! Last edited by weijen; 05-17-2014 at 12:33 AM.

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05-16-2014, 03:24 PM	#16
todd Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Arizona Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,799 Original Poster	Originally posted by chickentender Edit: except the OP specifically specified and cheap AF cam, which that is not which renders most of this post of mine irrelevant. Move along. You got me looking at the MX... How would my experience with that compare to my experience with ME Super, do you think? They seem about the same to me on paper but I noticed that the MX has a higher rating...

05-16-2014, 03:51 PM	#17
Eyewanders Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Land of the Salish Sea Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,343	Originally posted by todd You got me looking at the MX... How would my experience with that compare to my experience with ME Super, do you think? They seem about the same to me on paper but I noticed that the MX has a higher rating... I take it this question is unrelated to your search for a cheap AF camera, yes? The MX and ME Super are similar in size, but the handling is completely different. I have never owned an ME Super but I've shot one a number of times over the years. They are geared toward program mode (aperture priority) while the MX is fully manual and mechanical. They both take pictures and both are very well built but in operation it's just a very different "flow" for lack of a better word. I've often thought about picking up a Super ME simply because I often work in aperture priority when using digitals.

05-16-2014, 04:52 PM	#18
todd Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Arizona Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,799 Original Poster	Originally posted by chickentender I take it this question is unrelated to your search for a cheap AF camera, yes? The MX and ME Super are similar in size, but the handling is completely different. I have never owned an ME Super but I've shot one a number of times over the years. They are geared toward program mode (aperture priority) while the MX is fully manual and mechanical. They both take pictures and both are very well built but in operation it's just a very different "flow" for lack of a better word. I've often thought about picking up a Super ME simply because I often work in aperture priority when using digitals. Yes, Just looking at all possibilities. You didn't mention it being any easier/quicker to dial in the focus, which I figured wouldn't be your response. I have a feeling if I was shooting a higher volume of film, I'd get better at my focusing, but I have had some bummer scenarios (shots of the kids that were spoiled by my mis-focusings) with the ME Super. Strange for me that even with the larger viewfinder of the ME Super, I find myself able to manual focus much easier with the K5 than on film, not that that I do it a ton... It might be focus confirmation that I lean on... Although to be fair, I don't think I go it in manual focus very often when doing my kiddo shots. with the K5 either...

05-16-2014, 06:10 PM	#19
Eyewanders Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Land of the Salish Sea Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,343	Kid shots are tough to nail manually no matter the camera. You might try a different focusing screen - I can't recall if the ME Super is able to swap them or no but I'm sure someone else can chime in. I'd say I use MF 80% of the time and it truly does simply take practice. On my digital however, the K5 before and now the K3, a focusing screen change made all the difference for me, but that will vary on personal preference.

05-16-2014, 07:49 PM	#20
weijen Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 105	I thought the OP wanted an AF camera. Why did MX and ME come in? ;D Anyway, my experience: Best viewfinder ever: SFX(n) (0.81x) Best lens compatibility: Z-1, Z-20, MZ-7, MZ-6 (Z-70 does not allow ISO override) Best hardware compatibility: MZ-7, MZ-6 (they support wireless shutter trigger and the MZ-6 supports P-TTL) The Z bodies seem to have the least problems. I've never seen anyone complaining of a stuck mirror in a Z body here.

05-16-2014, 08:14 PM	#21
Swift1 Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Oregon Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,079	Originally posted by weijen I thought the OP wanted an AF camera. Why did MX and ME come in? ;D Anyway, my experience: Best viewfinder ever: SFX(n) (0.81x) Best lens compatibility: Z-1, Z-20, MZ-7, MZ-6 (Z-70 does not allow ISO override) Best hardware compatibility: MZ-7, MZ-6 (they support wireless shutter trigger and the MZ-6 supports P-TTL) The Z bodies seem to have the least problems. I've never seen anyone complaining of a stuck mirror in a Z body here. I've had the stuck mirror problem with a PZ-1 If the OP doesn't need ISO override, the SF7/SF10 can be picked up for next to nothing and is actually a decent camera. For what they sell for, the ZX-L/MZ-6 is a superb little camera.

05-16-2014, 08:21 PM	#22
p38arover Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Western Sydney, Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,084	I have an SFX and SF7 - I prefer the SFX which can be picked up quite cheaply.

05-16-2014, 08:48 PM	#23
arnold Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Queensland Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,299	Originally posted by todd , I'd get better at my focusing, but I have had some bummer scenarios Having learned on cameras without any focusing aids, I am somewhat puzzled when others have trouble with focus. When my MX was my main camera and I was planning some shooting that day, I would preset my speed and aperture to the expected light conditions, and set my focus to the distance I was expecting to use. An unexpected photo opportunity could be taken advantage of in an instant, even if all parameters weren't perfect. Try estimating your distances as a confirmation of what is set on the lens. If you can guess the distance of your outstretched arms (6 feet), then you can guess half that or double that. Avoid large apertures if not needed for more depth of focus.

05-16-2014, 11:13 PM	#25
kdf9511 Senior Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Weatherford, Oklahoma Posts: 206	Originally posted by todd I've flirted with the idea at points in the past for the K5 but have kept putting it off... Wiki says the finder is fixed in the Super... Me thinks I just keep using the Super but also land an AF body... ---------- Post added 05-16-14 at 09:17 PM ---------- I've done this to some extent and it does help... It seems like I spend a lot of time second guessing myself during the take, while also trying to shoot at wide apertures a lot. I feel a lot of pressure to make every shot count with film, and that pressure is counter productive.. I've gotten better at the manual focusing, but I've only shot a few rolls and it has been feeling like a lot of work. I think I need to burn a few (less expensive than portra) rolls not shooting the kids, to get more comfortable and confident. And yes, I realized when I started shooting film how reliant I was on focus confirmation! Ugh Thanks everybody for the input! By the way, the two right now that I've been watching that are coming due this weekend over at goodwill.com (and still at low dollars ) are a ZX-7 and a PZ-10 I sure have noticed how there is an abundance of MZ-50's on the market. Makes me think to avoid... I don't think you could go wrong with the ZX-7. As a photographer that at the time had almost no clue about photography I got some pretty good pictures out of mine.

05-16-2014, 11:44 PM	#26
patjp Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2010 Photos: Albums Posts: 226	If you do pick up an MZ or ZX also look out for a cheap FG grip. It will not only make the camera a bit easier to hold but also lets you use Eneloop or similar AA batteries. Much cheaper than the standard CR batteries.

05-17-2014, 01:50 AM	#28
hks_kansei Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 834	Another vote here for the SFX, I pretty much learned photography on an SFXn and a Super-A. The SFX was a great camera, can't remember it ever having a single fault.

05-17-2014, 02:01 AM	#29
weijen Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 105	Originally posted by hks_kansei Another vote here for the SFX, I pretty much learned photography on an SFXn and a Super-A. The SFX was a great camera, can't remember it ever having a single fault. The SFX is a very good looking camera. Totally oozing with that 80's boxy retro look. On the other hand, I feel the PZ-1 is the ugliest camera Pentax ever made. It's subjective though. Once you got used to the SFX's viewfinder, you won't want to look through the viewfinder of any other AF cameras. Even the MZ-S viewfinder is dinky compared to this one.

05-17-2014, 07:11 AM	#30
gofour3 Site Supporter Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 8,092	Originally posted by arnold Having learned on cameras without any focusing aids, I am somewhat puzzled when others have trouble with focus. When my MX was my main camera and I was planning some shooting that day, I would preset my speed and aperture to the expected light conditions, and set my focus to the distance I was expecting to use. An unexpected photo opportunity could be taken advantage of in an instant, even if all parameters weren't perfect. Try estimating your distances as a confirmation of what is set on the lens. If you can guess the distance of your outstretched arms (6 feet), then you can guess half that or double that. Avoid large apertures if not needed for more depth of focus. +1 That’s the way I shoot most of the time. I’ve never owned/used an AF camera and for me there is no reason to. Phil.