Street portraiture with ME Super - seeking advice

Frank B. Jackson · 07-25-2014, 02:20 PM

Hi, and thanks again for this advice. I haven't been able to get online the last couple of days, but i've been out shooting a lot of test shots.

The information about flash is really helpful. The two Takumar lenses arrived and they're really enjoyable to use.

Unfortunately i've had some pretty confusing results (not with the Takumar's, i haven't had any shots developed yet).

I seem to be having some serious problems with noise that i've never had before. I am using a different ME Super body (i picked up a new one) and i'm wondering whether the light meter is off?

Even so, i don't actually understand the principles behind why this is happening, as many of the shots were shot in full daylight, or well lit rooms, and it seems in some cases they're almost overexposed in places.

I've posted a few examples below, if anyone could help i would be so grateful. I've been doing a lot of research, but so far not been able to really understand what's happening. It's a real setback as i've had the opportunity to shoot some people already and this noise problem has really compromised the shots.

In following some earlier advice i was shooting these mainly between 2.8 and 4. These are all with 50mm lens on 400 ISO Fuji Superia Premium.

It was really bad here, even thought the meter read ok.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/126316617@N06/14557679660/

A little better on the same composition, but still very noisy
https://www.flickr.com/photos/126316617@N06/14557683798/

Some outside shots
https://www.flickr.com/photos/126316617@N06/14744280805/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/126316617@N06/14557615030/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/126316617@N06/14557641939/

Any help would be brilliant. Thanks again

**gofour3** · 07-25-2014, 06:40 PM

Originally posted by Frank B. Jackson

In following some earlier advice i was shooting these mainly between 2.8 and 4. These are all with 50mm lens on 400 ISO Fuji Superia Premium.

Shooting 400 ISO film outside in summer daylight at f2.8 to f4 would require a very fast shutter speed. Are you sure your cameras meter indicated a reading below 1/2000 of a second? Shooting 400 ISO film in that environment would usually be around f/16 to f/22, with no filter factor iinvolved.

Phil.

Frank B. Jackson · 07-26-2014, 12:06 AM

Thank you for this. It still seems i have a lot to learn, but i'm determined to get there.

In these photos i was just going by the meter. The shutter speed was fast, somewhere between 1/500 and 1/2000, so i assumed as long as the meter said it was good, it would be.

I think my understanding of aperture usage is definitely a problem. I tried to keep the aperture around 2.8 - 4 as it was suggested that would retain sharpness and decent isolation.

Is it better to keep the aperture as closed as possible, whilst trying to retain a shutter speed of around 125?

EJMzagsfan · 07-26-2014, 01:19 AM

It would depend on what your going for. You should just google and read a few articles on exposure, there is a lot of info out there. Larger apertures ( smaller number) let in more light and give you a shallower depth of field. With letting in more light you need a faster shutter speed for the exposure.

With film cameras especially your limited to 1/2000, (comparatively my k5 goes to 1/8000) and your stuck with one sensitivity setting.

If your aperture is letting in to much light and your camera's shutter cant go fast enough there will be over exposure. Using 100 speed film would help unless it's very bright. I think something on your ME should flash when your aperture priority settings arent viable.

---------- Post added 07-26-14 at 01:29 AM ----------

Sorry if thats confusing, you will get it. Here is one of the first links I found that had some good information.
Camera Exposure: Aperture, ISO & Shutter Speed

Also I Understanding exposure by Bryan peterson is highly recommended. Photo equipment is nice, but photos definitely benefit as much from books.

**gofour3** · 07-26-2014, 09:59 AM

If your TTL meter did not indicate the exposure was “over”, then it may need adjusting via a CLA. We typically recommend sending a new camera in for a CLA before seriously using it.

400ISO film is used mostly for low light/indoor shooting or when you need lots of DOF, like when shooting macro or with a long telephoto.

You can still shoot 400ISO film outdoors in the summer months, but you may need to use a ND or Polarizer filter to slow things down. ISO 50 – 200 is recommend for summer sunshine.

If you want to shoot near wide open to isolate your subject outdoors, then 100ISO should do the trick.

Phil.

Frank B. Jackson · 07-30-2014, 04:22 AM

Thank you, that was a really good article. Been doing a ton more research.

Think i'm slowly getting there.

The ISO info is very helpful too.

I conducted a little experiment on ISO/noise using my digital camera (Canon 550d)

I shot two images of similar material, but my ME super showed up with a lot more noise.

Is this normal for film cameras using 400ISO? I don't mind there being noise, as long as it's normal and appropriate to the film stock, and it's not mine or a camera error that's causing it.

Both images were shot at 1/60 with a 50mm lens The canon was at 1.8 and the ME Super was at 1.7.

ME Super - https://www.flickr.com/photos/126316617@N06/14762270086/
550D - https://www.flickr.com/photos/126316617@N06/14784909682/

Something i'm finding really strange is that i also shot a series of images at night, also at 1/60 1.7 with the ME Super and there was no detectable noise at all in the correctly exposed shots.

Even the underexposed images (shot at around 125) weren't noisy. The blacks were grey, but the grey was quite smooth.

Underexposed - https://www.flickr.com/photos/126316617@N06/14598634700/
Correct exposure - https://www.flickr.com/photos/126316617@N06/14598823117/

Again, could this be a difference in the labs i'm using?

I asked the man in the new shop if they had tried to correct anything and he said that it was developed straight with no corrections.

This film stock was also Superia XTRA, as opposed to Premium. Could that be a factor? The difference is quite huge, so i'm a bit confused!

Will try more experiments tonight. Thank you again all for your input.

stevebrot · 07-30-2014, 07:32 AM

Originally posted by Frank B. Jackson

Is this normal for film cameras using 400ISO? I don't mind there being noise, as long as it's normal and appropriate to the film stock, and it's not mine or a camera error that's causing it.

Film does not have noise. It does have grain, however, and it is supposed to be there. The picture is composed of grain (clumps of silver granules or dye). The prominence of grain in the image structure is related to film speed (ISO), the film itself, exposure (to a degree), and processing. Here are a few bullet points:

Lower ISO films tend to have finer grain
Most (all?) films ISO 400 and above have prominent grain
Prominent grain can be used to an artistic advantage
Grain structure varies between films, even those of the same ISO
A poorly exposed negative may appear more grainy. Again, it depends on the film.
For B&W, the developer used and processing technique may significantly affect grain prominence. A good example would be Rodinal, which provides high acuity, but with graininess as the price.

Steve

jadedangel88201 · 04-13-2024, 09:56 PM

Going to Nasville,TN Tuesday. Taking my ME-Super, 50mm f1.4 with color Portra 400. Want to do some street photography. Will be downtown in the evening/night.
Any suggestions or advice is welcome!
Thank You!

07-30-2014, 04:22 AM	#21
Frank B. Jackson New Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 12 Original Poster	Thank you, that was a really good article. Been doing a ton more research. Think i'm slowly getting there. The ISO info is very helpful too. I conducted a little experiment on ISO/noise using my digital camera (Canon 550d) I shot two images of similar material, but my ME super showed up with a lot more noise. Is this normal for film cameras using 400ISO? I don't mind there being noise, as long as it's normal and appropriate to the film stock, and it's not mine or a camera error that's causing it. Both images were shot at 1/60 with a 50mm lens The canon was at 1.8 and the ME Super was at 1.7. ME Super - https://www.flickr.com/photos/126316617@N06/14762270086/ 550D - https://www.flickr.com/photos/126316617@N06/14784909682/ Something i'm finding really strange is that i also shot a series of images at night, also at 1/60 1.7 with the ME Super and there was no detectable noise at all in the correctly exposed shots. Even the underexposed images (shot at around 125) weren't noisy. The blacks were grey, but the grey was quite smooth. Underexposed - https://www.flickr.com/photos/126316617@N06/14598634700/ Correct exposure - https://www.flickr.com/photos/126316617@N06/14598823117/ Again, could this be a difference in the labs i'm using? I asked the man in the new shop if they had tried to correct anything and he said that it was developed straight with no corrections. This film stock was also Superia XTRA, as opposed to Premium. Could that be a factor? The difference is quite huge, so i'm a bit confused! Will try more experiments tonight. Thank you again all for your input. Last edited by Frank B. Jackson; 07-30-2014 at 05:09 AM.

07-30-2014, 07:32 AM	#22
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by Frank B. Jackson Is this normal for film cameras using 400ISO? I don't mind there being noise, as long as it's normal and appropriate to the film stock, and it's not mine or a camera error that's causing it. Film does not have noise. It does have grain, however, and it is supposed to be there. The picture is composed of grain (clumps of silver granules or dye). The prominence of grain in the image structure is related to film speed (ISO), the film itself, exposure (to a degree), and processing. Here are a few bullet points: Lower ISO films tend to have finer grain Most (all?) films ISO 400 and above have prominent grain Prominent grain can be used to an artistic advantage Grain structure varies between films, even those of the same ISO A poorly exposed negative may appear more grainy. Again, it depends on the film. For B&W, the developer used and processing technique may significantly affect grain prominence. A good example would be Rodinal, which provides high acuity, but with graininess as the price. Steve

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Pentax Me Super - Film Loading Advice/Question	jstillion	Film SLRs and Compact Film Cameras	4	07-13-2013 11:50 AM
Streets Street Shots with ME Super	yusuf	Post Your Photos!	13	05-07-2013 11:19 AM
Newbie seeking advice	SCADjacket	Troubleshooting and Beginner Help	10	09-02-2012 03:58 PM
Seeking Street Studio Advice	petercrane	Photographic Technique	25	11-17-2009 05:03 AM

07-25-2014, 02:20 PM	#16
Frank B. Jackson New Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 12 Original Poster	Hi, and thanks again for this advice. I haven't been able to get online the last couple of days, but i've been out shooting a lot of test shots. The information about flash is really helpful. The two Takumar lenses arrived and they're really enjoyable to use. Unfortunately i've had some pretty confusing results (not with the Takumar's, i haven't had any shots developed yet). I seem to be having some serious problems with noise that i've never had before. I am using a different ME Super body (i picked up a new one) and i'm wondering whether the light meter is off? Even so, i don't actually understand the principles behind why this is happening, as many of the shots were shot in full daylight, or well lit rooms, and it seems in some cases they're almost overexposed in places. I've posted a few examples below, if anyone could help i would be so grateful. I've been doing a lot of research, but so far not been able to really understand what's happening. It's a real setback as i've had the opportunity to shoot some people already and this noise problem has really compromised the shots. In following some earlier advice i was shooting these mainly between 2.8 and 4. These are all with 50mm lens on 400 ISO Fuji Superia Premium. It was really bad here, even thought the meter read ok. https://www.flickr.com/photos/126316617@N06/14557679660/ A little better on the same composition, but still very noisy https://www.flickr.com/photos/126316617@N06/14557683798/ Some outside shots https://www.flickr.com/photos/126316617@N06/14744280805/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/126316617@N06/14557615030/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/126316617@N06/14557641939/ Any help would be brilliant. Thanks again

07-25-2014, 06:40 PM	#17
gofour3 Site Supporter Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 8,092	Originally posted by Frank B. Jackson In following some earlier advice i was shooting these mainly between 2.8 and 4. These are all with 50mm lens on 400 ISO Fuji Superia Premium. Shooting 400 ISO film outside in summer daylight at f2.8 to f4 would require a very fast shutter speed. Are you sure your cameras meter indicated a reading below 1/2000 of a second? Shooting 400 ISO film in that environment would usually be around f/16 to f/22, with no filter factor iinvolved. Phil.

07-26-2014, 12:06 AM	#18
Frank B. Jackson New Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 12 Original Poster	Thank you for this. It still seems i have a lot to learn, but i'm determined to get there. In these photos i was just going by the meter. The shutter speed was fast, somewhere between 1/500 and 1/2000, so i assumed as long as the meter said it was good, it would be. I think my understanding of aperture usage is definitely a problem. I tried to keep the aperture around 2.8 - 4 as it was suggested that would retain sharpness and decent isolation. Is it better to keep the aperture as closed as possible, whilst trying to retain a shutter speed of around 125?

07-26-2014, 01:19 AM	#19
EJMzagsfan Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Idaho Photos: Albums Posts: 241	It would depend on what your going for. You should just google and read a few articles on exposure, there is a lot of info out there. Larger apertures ( smaller number) let in more light and give you a shallower depth of field. With letting in more light you need a faster shutter speed for the exposure. With film cameras especially your limited to 1/2000, (comparatively my k5 goes to 1/8000) and your stuck with one sensitivity setting. If your aperture is letting in to much light and your camera's shutter cant go fast enough there will be over exposure. Using 100 speed film would help unless it's very bright. I think something on your ME should flash when your aperture priority settings arent viable. ---------- Post added 07-26-14 at 01:29 AM ---------- Sorry if thats confusing, you will get it. Here is one of the first links I found that had some good information. Camera Exposure: Aperture, ISO & Shutter Speed Also I Understanding exposure by Bryan peterson is highly recommended. Photo equipment is nice, but photos definitely benefit as much from books.

07-26-2014, 09:59 AM	#20
gofour3 Site Supporter Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 8,092	If your TTL meter did not indicate the exposure was “over”, then it may need adjusting via a CLA. We typically recommend sending a new camera in for a CLA before seriously using it. 400ISO film is used mostly for low light/indoor shooting or when you need lots of DOF, like when shooting macro or with a long telephoto. You can still shoot 400ISO film outdoors in the summer months, but you may need to use a ND or Polarizer filter to slow things down. ISO 50 – 200 is recommend for summer sunshine. If you want to shoot near wide open to isolate your subject outdoors, then 100ISO should do the trick. Phil.

04-13-2024, 09:56 PM	#23
jadedangel88201 New Member Join Date: Aug 2023 Posts: 11	Going to Nasville,TN Tuesday. Taking my ME-Super, 50mm f1.4 with color Portra 400. Want to do some street photography. Will be downtown in the evening/night. Any suggestions or advice is welcome! Thank You!