Pentax's MF SLR Metering Pattern: Just Centerweighted?

Karénine · 04-25-2015, 02:55 AM

I can appreciate the idea of the horizon pattern but I think I like the center weighted best. I realized than half of my photos were taken vertically, on average. I don't know if it's unorthodox, but yeah, when i'm about to take a photo i like to have more vertical lenght than horizontal. Glad the KX is center-weighted.

womble · 04-25-2015, 03:08 AM

I spent many years shooting Kodachrome 64 using an ME Super. For landscape / architecture shots (which was most of them) I used manual and dipped the camera to exclude most (but not quite all) the sky. That worked well for 99% of my slides. I got caught out once or twice when I used someone else's camera! K.

Cuthbert · 04-25-2015, 04:37 AM

Originally posted by Karénine

I can appreciate the idea of the horizon pattern but I think I like the center weighted best. I realized than half of my photos were taken vertically, on average. I don't know if it's unorthodox, but yeah, when i'm about to take a photo i like to have more vertical lenght than horizontal. Glad the KX is center-weighted.

I think this M metering pattern is also very effective when you are using the camera to takes vertically pics of tall buildings and full size people as well.

Originally posted by gofour3

Yep the ME & MX have the same meter sensitivity pattern.

The K Series are different.

K2's & KX are center weighted but have different patterns and the KM & K1000 use averaging.

Phil.

Is it possible to find about the metering pattern of the KX and K2?

Karénine · 04-25-2015, 06:07 AM

Originally posted by Cuthbert

I think this M metering pattern is also very effective when you are using the camera to takes vertically pics of tall buildings and full size people as well.

The horizon pattern isn't a problem itself, but if it has more weight on the bottom (like shown on the ME pattern), when you take a vertical photograph, you end up with an asymetrical metering.

Cuthbert · 04-25-2015, 08:42 AM

Originally posted by Karénine

The horizon pattern isn't a problem itself, but if it has more weight on the bottom (like shown on the ME pattern), when you take a vertical photograph, you end up with an asymetrical metering.

Pretty sure if you fill the metering area in question with your subject it's gonna be fine.

I have good memories of the MX metering pattern, even when I was a noob I could take decent pics, for instance here I was toying with a M28mm f2.8:

**gofour3** · 04-25-2015, 08:43 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Cuthbert

Is it possible to find about the metering pattern of the KX and K2?

I have a picture of the K2, KX and KM pattern, just have to scan them and post. I'll take the book to work next week, so give we a few days.

Phil.

cooltouch · 04-25-2015, 01:03 PM

Phil, that would be great, beings as I have all three of those cameras.

**gofour3** · 04-26-2015, 04:30 PM - **1 Like**

Sorry for the crap pictures, but here are the meter patterns for the K2, KX & KM. I'm assuming the K1000 & Spotmatic will have the same "averaging" pattern as the KM.

Phil.

Cuthbert · 04-26-2015, 04:53 PM

The K2 looks like a mild spot while the KX more an average central.

**Lowell Goudge** · 04-27-2015, 04:54 AM

Originally posted by cooltouch

Interesting. I agree with LessDMess on this one. I like to keep in mind that a camera's meter is going to interpret the subject as being 18% gray, so on that basis I would say your shot of the statue is somewhat overexposed. The camera doesn't know it's white marble. It doesn't even know it's white. It will see all that is in the metering area as 18% gray and expose accordingly. This is why you often need to overexpose when you're shooting predominant snow scenes, for example. It seems counter-intuitive, but if you don't, the snow comes out looking like mud.

Nonetheless, to me, the above scene is just slightly overexposed. There's burn-through in the face and the right shoulder/breast area. If I were to bump down the exposure just a touch, more texture would show up in the marble, which is my preference.

This is exactly how the camera should expose if there is no compensation. The 18%grey is a combination of black and white so aside from a little beenfit of center weighting, it will try to make the mix 18% grey, resulting I. Trying to elevate the black more because more of the frame is black than white.

---------- Post added 04-27-2015 at 07:58 AM ----------

Originally posted by Cuthbert

The K2 looks like a mild spot while the KX more an average central.

The KX is what they call lower center weighted. It ignores the sky more than other cameras. If you want to do an experiment. Shoot a bright sky shot with the camera oriented normally, and a second upside down.

The one thing the lower weighted pattern also helps out with, is long tele lenses, because the KX mirror is a little undersized and you give up the top of the frame in the viewfinder when shooting with 400mm or more. This is likely why the pattern is lower center weighted. The sensor does not see the top

**ChrisPlatt** · 04-27-2015, 05:57 AM

IMO the difference in metering pattern among these cameras is not significant, and should not determine camera choice; other features are more important.
Any of these bodies is capable of making properly exposed photos consistently if used intelligently by a knowledgeable and experienced photographer.

Chris

Cuthbert · 04-27-2015, 07:48 AM

Originally posted by ChrisPlatt

IMO the difference in metering pattern among these cameras is not significant, and should not determine camera choice; other features are more important.
Any of these bodies is capable of making properly exposed photos consistently if used intelligently by a knowledgeable and experienced photographer.

Chris

If the metering pattern is not significant there's point in studying it so deeply and makes like Canon spent a lot of money for nothing developing for instance the interchangeable screens for the F-1N or the multispot metering of the T90.

I don't think most of the photographers then and now consider the metering pattern not significant, on my side I can say the A-1 doesn't wok for me while my favourite camera, the F-1N, is my favourite because I can change screen ad choose the best metering pattern for the shots I have in mind.

**ChrisPlatt** · 04-27-2015, 02:00 PM

IMO so much of this stuff is just marketing hype.

Sophisticated metering patterns and matrix metering may be useful for fully automated exposure.
But for manual exposure or intelligently biased autoexposure they're just unnecessary.

A good photographer can determine perfect exposure using a simple handheld meter.
I know some who don't even need that - they can nail it consistently using Sunny 16!

Chris

Cuthbert · 04-27-2015, 02:07 PM

Originally posted by ChrisPlatt

IMO so much of this stuff is just marketing hype.

Sophisticated metering patterns and matrix metering may be useful for fully automated exposure.
But for manual exposure or intelligently biased autoexposure they're just unnecessary.

A good photographer can determine perfect exposure using a simple handheld meter.
I know some who don't even need that - they can nail it consistently using Sunny 16!

Chris

All my shots with soviet RFs and Leicas M3 and M4P are sunny 16 BUT I would never try it with colour, or better I tried and the results haven't been positive.

04-25-2015, 04:37 AM	#18
Cuthbert Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,740	Originally posted by Karénine I can appreciate the idea of the horizon pattern but I think I like the center weighted best. I realized than half of my photos were taken vertically, on average. I don't know if it's unorthodox, but yeah, when i'm about to take a photo i like to have more vertical lenght than horizontal. Glad the KX is center-weighted. I think this M metering pattern is also very effective when you are using the camera to takes vertically pics of tall buildings and full size people as well. Originally posted by gofour3 Yep the ME & MX have the same meter sensitivity pattern. The K Series are different. K2's & KX are center weighted but have different patterns and the KM & K1000 use averaging. Phil. Is it possible to find about the metering pattern of the KX and K2? Last edited by Cuthbert; 04-25-2015 at 04:48 AM.

04-26-2015, 04:30 PM - 1 Like	#23
gofour3 Site Supporter Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 8,091	Sorry for the crap pictures, but here are the meter patterns for the K2, KX & KM. I'm assuming the K1000 & Spotmatic will have the same "averaging" pattern as the KM. Phil. Attached Images

04-27-2015, 05:57 AM	#26
ChrisPlatt Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Rockaway Beach NYC Posts: 7,694	IMO the difference in metering pattern among these cameras is not significant, and should not determine camera choice; other features are more important. Any of these bodies is capable of making properly exposed photos consistently if used intelligently by a knowledgeable and experienced photographer. Chris Last edited by ChrisPlatt; 04-27-2015 at 07:01 AM.

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04-25-2015, 02:55 AM	#16
Karénine New Member Join Date: Oct 2014 Posts: 19	I can appreciate the idea of the horizon pattern but I think I like the center weighted best. I realized than half of my photos were taken vertically, on average. I don't know if it's unorthodox, but yeah, when i'm about to take a photo i like to have more vertical lenght than horizontal. Glad the KX is center-weighted.

04-25-2015, 03:08 AM	#17
womble Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Hertfordshire Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,324	I spent many years shooting Kodachrome 64 using an ME Super. For landscape / architecture shots (which was most of them) I used manual and dipped the camera to exclude most (but not quite all) the sky. That worked well for 99% of my slides. I got caught out once or twice when I used someone else's camera! K.

04-25-2015, 06:07 AM	#19
Karénine New Member Join Date: Oct 2014 Posts: 19	Originally posted by Cuthbert I think this M metering pattern is also very effective when you are using the camera to takes vertically pics of tall buildings and full size people as well. The horizon pattern isn't a problem itself, but if it has more weight on the bottom (like shown on the ME pattern), when you take a vertical photograph, you end up with an asymetrical metering.

04-25-2015, 08:42 AM	#20
Cuthbert Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,740	Originally posted by Karénine The horizon pattern isn't a problem itself, but if it has more weight on the bottom (like shown on the ME pattern), when you take a vertical photograph, you end up with an asymetrical metering. Pretty sure if you fill the metering area in question with your subject it's gonna be fine. I have good memories of the MX metering pattern, even when I was a noob I could take decent pics, for instance here I was toying with a M28mm f2.8:

04-25-2015, 08:43 AM - 1 Like	#21
gofour3 Site Supporter Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 8,091	Originally posted by Cuthbert Is it possible to find about the metering pattern of the KX and K2? I have a picture of the K2, KX and KM pattern, just have to scan them and post. I'll take the book to work next week, so give we a few days. Phil.

04-25-2015, 01:03 PM	#22
cooltouch Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Houston, Texas Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 982 Original Poster	Phil, that would be great, beings as I have all three of those cameras.

04-26-2015, 04:53 PM	#24
Cuthbert Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,740	The K2 looks like a mild spot while the KX more an average central.

04-27-2015, 04:54 AM	#25
Lowell Goudge Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,888	Originally posted by cooltouch Interesting. I agree with LessDMess on this one. I like to keep in mind that a camera's meter is going to interpret the subject as being 18% gray, so on that basis I would say your shot of the statue is somewhat overexposed. The camera doesn't know it's white marble. It doesn't even know it's white. It will see all that is in the metering area as 18% gray and expose accordingly. This is why you often need to overexpose when you're shooting predominant snow scenes, for example. It seems counter-intuitive, but if you don't, the snow comes out looking like mud. Nonetheless, to me, the above scene is just slightly overexposed. There's burn-through in the face and the right shoulder/breast area. If I were to bump down the exposure just a touch, more texture would show up in the marble, which is my preference. This is exactly how the camera should expose if there is no compensation. The 18%grey is a combination of black and white so aside from a little beenfit of center weighting, it will try to make the mix 18% grey, resulting I. Trying to elevate the black more because more of the frame is black than white. ---------- Post added 04-27-2015 at 07:58 AM ---------- Originally posted by Cuthbert The K2 looks like a mild spot while the KX more an average central. The KX is what they call lower center weighted. It ignores the sky more than other cameras. If you want to do an experiment. Shoot a bright sky shot with the camera oriented normally, and a second upside down. The one thing the lower weighted pattern also helps out with, is long tele lenses, because the KX mirror is a little undersized and you give up the top of the frame in the viewfinder when shooting with 400mm or more. This is likely why the pattern is lower center weighted. The sensor does not see the top

04-27-2015, 07:48 AM	#27
Cuthbert Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,740	Originally posted by ChrisPlatt IMO the difference in metering pattern among these cameras is not significant, and should not determine camera choice; other features are more important. Any of these bodies is capable of making properly exposed photos consistently if used intelligently by a knowledgeable and experienced photographer. Chris If the metering pattern is not significant there's point in studying it so deeply and makes like Canon spent a lot of money for nothing developing for instance the interchangeable screens for the F-1N or the multispot metering of the T90. I don't think most of the photographers then and now consider the metering pattern not significant, on my side I can say the A-1 doesn't wok for me while my favourite camera, the F-1N, is my favourite because I can change screen ad choose the best metering pattern for the shots I have in mind.

04-27-2015, 02:00 PM	#28
ChrisPlatt Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Rockaway Beach NYC Posts: 7,694	IMO so much of this stuff is just marketing hype. Sophisticated metering patterns and matrix metering may be useful for fully automated exposure. But for manual exposure or intelligently biased autoexposure they're just unnecessary. A good photographer can determine perfect exposure using a simple handheld meter. I know some who don't even need that - they can nail it consistently using Sunny 16! Chris

04-27-2015, 02:07 PM	#29
Cuthbert Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,740	Originally posted by ChrisPlatt IMO so much of this stuff is just marketing hype. Sophisticated metering patterns and matrix metering may be useful for fully automated exposure. But for manual exposure or intelligently biased autoexposure they're just unnecessary. A good photographer can determine perfect exposure using a simple handheld meter. I know some who don't even need that - they can nail it consistently using Sunny 16! Chris All my shots with soviet RFs and Leicas M3 and M4P are sunny 16 BUT I would never try it with colour, or better I tried and the results haven't been positive.