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06-08-2017, 08:38 AM   #1
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How best to use expired film?

So, I got film cameras, and decided which ones to use (Ricoh KR-5 Super and Pentax P3N).

I have a roll of TMAX 100, expired in 2003, and a roll of TMAX 400, expired in 2004.



What should I expect from expired film, and how will it affect image quality?


Last edited by timw4mail; 06-08-2017 at 09:02 AM.
06-08-2017, 08:46 AM   #2
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Expired film isn't a problem. Just have fun with it. The negatives you get back will still be exciting
06-08-2017, 08:54 AM - 2 Likes   #3
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The starting rule of thumb I heard is to set ISO one stop slower (or overexpose one stop) for every ten years past best-by date. Results may vary for your particular batch, so be prepared to deal with that and maybe bracket a bit if the shots are critical.

Remember that your.... um, I'm gathering that by M3N you really meant P3n? Yeah, that; you'll have to dial in the overexposure yourself, for every shot, because ASA setting on that camera is by DX code only with no override. (I don't know what the Ricoh can do in that regard.)

Alternatively, because you're shooting black and white you might be able to make up for it at the development and scan/print stage - either yourself if you do your own darkroom work, or by telling the lab you send it to what they're dealing with so they can push it for you as needed.

Your films are 13-14 years old, so perhaps round up to fifteen years and slow down by about a stop and a half - your TMAX 100 will by the above guidelines prefer something closer to 32ASA; your 400 will shoot more like 125 or 160.

If it turns out the film's performance hasn't decayed that badly, the best thing about print film is that it copes with overexposure relatively well (especially when compared against slides or digital), but some compensation will be required at the scan/wet print stage. Again, let any external laboratory know in detail what you have done and why. You might want them to generate a contact print of all the strips in the first instance, possibly multiple ones at different exposures, and then send them back with the desired frames circled to indicate which ones you want printed.
06-08-2017, 09:11 AM   #4
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It all depends on time and stored conditions. Old film's base can fog over time. So it can impact the image's contrast and quality if the fogging becomes too much. I developed some 320 TXP from that time frame a few years ago and it the base was definitely fogged but the images were acceptable.

06-08-2017, 09:15 AM   #5
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Depending on storage conditions, your expired film may be just fine. For B&W, you can do a test roll using a target setup designed to challenge tonal range. Shoot three stops over and three stops under in half-stop increments to determine your working EI. Color shifts are the concern for both color negative and color slide film. Whether those can be addressed in scanning or PP depends on severity of the shift.


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06-08-2017, 09:22 AM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by tuco Quote
Old film's base can fog over time. So it can impact the image's contrast and quality if the fogging becomes too much.
You succinctly stated the technical aspect that I omitted. Good work


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06-08-2017, 09:26 AM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
Shoot three stops over and three stops under in half-stop increments to determine your working EI.
My impression is that OP's got just one roll of each that he wants to give a try to have fun with his new film cameras; shooting like that is going to exhaust his rolls in a couple of subjects. (If it were a 100ft roll he was going to spool himself, or a shrink-wrapped brick of 8 or 10 x 36, or if there is much more of this on offer where the originals came from, that's another matter. Then your advice is spot on.)

06-08-2017, 09:53 AM - 1 Like   #8
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See my post #13 at

Ancient bulk lots of expired film... - PentaxForums.com
06-08-2017, 10:01 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by pathdoc Quote
My impression is that OP's got just one roll of each that he wants to give a try to have fun with his new film cameras
Good point. I got carried away


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06-08-2017, 10:07 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by tuco Quote
It all depends on time and stored conditions. Old film's base can fog over time. So it can impact the image's contrast and quality if the fogging becomes too much. I developed some 320 TXP from that time frame a few years ago and it the base was definitely fogged but the images were acceptable.
QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
Depending on storage conditions, your expired film may be just fine. For B&W, you can do a test roll using a target setup designed to challenge tonal range. Shoot three stops over and three stops under in half-stop increments to determine your working EI. Color shifts are the concern for both color negative and color slide film. Whether those can be addressed in scanning or PP depends on severity of the shift.


Steve
All I know is that the film was originally 100 and 400 speed, it's black and white, and the film color was pinkish on the leader.
06-08-2017, 10:40 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by timw4mail Quote
All I know is that the film was originally 100 and 400 speed, it's black and white, and the film color was pinkish on the leader.
100TMX has a lot of anti-halation dye in it. Here is what Kodak says about it when you are getting pink negatives:

QuoteQuote:
IMPORTANT: With KODAK PROFESSIONAL T-MAX Films, fixer will be exhausted more rapidly than with other films. If negatives show a magenta (pink) stain after fixing, fixer may be near exhaustion, or fixing time is too short. If the stain is pronounced and irregular, refix the film in fresh fixer.
I use a double fixing stage with 100TMX and 400TMY. That is, fix normally and fix additional minute with a fresher fixer. Plus a good wash and I don't get any pink negatives with those films.
06-08-2017, 10:47 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by tuco Quote
100TMX has a lot of anti-halation dye in it. Here is what Kodak says about it when you are getting pink negatives:

I use a double fixing stage with 100TMX and 400TMY. That is, fix normally and fix additional minute with a fresher fixer. Plus a good wash and I don't get any pink negatives with those films.
It's pink "fresh" out of the original box, undeveloped.
06-08-2017, 01:08 PM   #13
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Fire and forget - I'd use it for "fun" shooting and take some of the suggestions above to heart. See what you get!
06-08-2017, 01:58 PM   #14
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Like what pathdoc said (and anyone whose shot film a lot has said):
10 Years Expired = Shoot 1 Stop Overexpose
Alternatively you can adjust when you get it developed (mailed out or at home) or when scanned/digitized.
06-08-2017, 02:03 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by disconnekt Quote
Like what pathdoc said (and anyone whose shot film a lot has said):
10 Years Expired = Shoot 1 Stop Overexpose
Alternatively you can adjust when you get it developed (mailed out or at home) or when scanned/digitized.
So, overexpose on shot, or pull during development?

Or should it be overexposed, and pulled during development?
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