zeiss flektogon 35 f2.4 on spotmatic F?

tonnu · 09-07-2017, 09:38 AM

hi there,

just got my spotmatic F and was trying my m42 lenses on it

takumar 50 f1.8 -> no problems
auto takumar 35 f2 -> no problems
helios 44-2 -> no problems
pentacon 29 f2.8 -> no problems BUT the pin got stuck and i spent a good 30 minutes trying to release the damn lens ... almost sawed it off

however, two of the m42 lenses in my collection do not work:

flektogon 35 f2.4 and
meyer 50 f1.8

and it's a shame as these two are obviously my favorite and ones that i wanted to try the most on the spf!!

the problem is i can screw it in but when i get to almost like 75%, then it stops turning. there's a "springy" resistance -> i.e. it's not a HARD stop, i can screw it in a bit more, and then the lens would be pushed back counter clockwise

anyone knows how to resolve the problem? any adapters or modifications possible?

or should i just get a normal spotmatic

thanks!

photoptimist · 09-07-2017, 10:49 AM

Might those lenses have protruding back elements that hit the mirror or structures inside the camera?

g026r · 09-07-2017, 11:02 AM

Originally posted by photoptimist

Might those lenses have protruding back elements that hit the mirror or structures inside the camera?

If it's a silver Flektogon, that might be a possibility. Some of the earlier CZJ lenses were built for cameras with much smaller mirrors/larger mirror clearances than the Spotmatics and can protrude into the mirror box a bit. (e.g. The only time I tried to use my Tessar on my Spotmatic, it screwed on but the mirror smacked the ring around the back element. Never had a Flektogon though.)

**boriscleto** · 09-07-2017, 11:42 AM

My Helios 44M won't screw all the way into a Spot F. It's not because of a protruding element. hitting the mirror. The rear element / mount projects just far enough to hit the aperture linkage.

44M compared to 8-element Super Tak 50/1.4

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Last edited by boriscleto; 09-07-2017 at 11:58 AM.

Na Horuk · 09-07-2017, 03:34 PM

Compare how far back the element protrudes at most and compare the actual mount threads between the lenses that can be mounted normally and those that can't.
Maybe post a photo of the threads?
I only use Flektogon on Kmount APSC DSLRs with adapter, so I never encountered that problem.

stevebrot · 09-07-2017, 08:41 PM

Originally posted by boriscleto

The rear element / mount projects just far enough to hit the aperture linkage.

By linkage, you mean the aperture position coupler at the top of the mirror box, right?

Before this thread, I was unaware that some GDR and FSU lenses have deeper threads than my Asahi, Vivitar, Rikenon, LZOS, and Tamron M42 mounts and which causes a problem with the Spotmatic F. There is always something new.

Originally posted by Na Horuk

I only use Flektogon on Kmount APSC DSLRs with adapter, so I never encountered that problem.

It is only a problem with the Spotmatic variants that support open-aperture metering.

Steve

thenewreligion · 09-23-2017, 04:49 PM - **1 Like**

Hey I have same setup here and was similarly heartbroken so I played around and figured it out! Depends if your model is like mine. Turned out it was the aperature pin on the lens that was catching the aperature indexing lever on the camera, not the rear element itself. I found that when the lens was switched to manual mode the pin would just flop up into the camera when held rear element up. So I left it like that and mounted the lens with the camera face-down so gravity could hold the pin in. Voila it mounted all the way! I switched the lens back to auto and it works like normal, open aperature (edit: I mean stop-down) metering and all! (Well, with limitations on my buggy spotmatic - see my other thread

). So I think it's just the extra-long pin and probably only happens on the F cause of that lever. Again my model is the electric mc flektogon czj so dunno if it works the same for all. Oh and if I didn't explain it well let me know and I'll post pics.

. Oh and even with deeper rear element, once mounted no probs with infinity. Oh and be warned that removing the land is a little tricky to, just found that out. In order to remove the lens it has to return to manual mode so that the pin can fall forward again so it will clear the aperature indexing lever again. In order to switch it to manual mode, it needs to be partially dismounted , Maybe 1/8 of a turn so that the tiny pin that locks it in auto mode can be un-pressed. Then you have to tip the camera face down and jiggle it so the pin will fall into the lens. Then it can be unscrewed all the way. So, before putting the lens on, I recommend making sure The pin is floppy enough to be reliably moved in and out with gravity and jiggling alone. Otherwise, I suppose this could just be a very nice fixed – lens camera :-)
Oh yah I guess alternatively if you're only gonn a use it on this camera you could just file down the pin.

Last edited by thenewreligion; 09-23-2017 at 05:55 PM. Reason: Addendum

stevebrot · 09-24-2017, 09:32 AM

Originally posted by thenewreligion

Turned out it was the aperature pin on the lens that was catching the aperature indexing lever on the camera, not the rear element itself.

Wow! That must be a very long pin, though I can see how it might happen.

Steve

puandr · 02-14-2021, 09:54 AM

Hello,

it's an old threat, but maybe someone survived..
I have a similar setup: Spotmatic F and Flektogon 35/2.4 and the hint with the pin doesn't work for me. The lens doesn't screw all the way in and after releasing a shutter the mirror is stuck in up position. If I unscrew lens a bit, the mirror is getting back nicely.
Don't have much hope, but could there be any solution to this problem? Is it safe to make the barrel shorter?

PS You can also recommend another M42 body for the Flektogon, I'd like to give it a "film life"

Andrei

stevebrot · 02-14-2021, 11:38 AM

Originally posted by puandr

Hello,

it's an old threat, but maybe someone survived..
I have a similar setup: Spotmatic F and Flektogon 35/2.4 and the hint with the pin doesn't work for me. The lens doesn't screw all the way in and after releasing a shutter the mirror is stuck in up position. If I unscrew lens a bit, the mirror is getting back nicely.
Don't have much hope, but could there be any solution to this problem? Is it safe to make the barrel shorter?

PS You can also recommend another M42 body for the Flektogon, I'd like to give it a "film life"

Andrei

Yes, this is an old thread, but the problem with non-Pentax lenses on the Spotmatic F is still very current. There us a more recent thread on the subject where options are described in detail.

Spotmatic F, ES, ESII | Third-party Lens Compatibility - PentaxForums.com

Steve

Kenzie2k3 · 02-14-2021, 11:52 AM

I have a Flek on my SP1000 with no issues.

g026r · 02-14-2021, 04:48 PM

Originally posted by Kenzie2k3

I have a Flek on my SP1000 with no issues.

Could depend on the lens model. What paudar is describing exactly matches the behaviour of the CZJ Tessar I mentioned above, and most Tessar models definitely worked on Spotmatics.

puandr · 02-15-2021, 09:34 AM

Hmm.. I remembered that I have another CZJ lens - 135/3.5. So I gave it a try and it worked fine. I started to compare 135 and 35 and their rear ends looked absolutely identical. So... I've screwed Flektogon on once again.... And it works!!!

I don't know what was the cause of yesterday failures, I tried at least 10 times. Probably some legacy magic.

Or I tried to screw it on too hard and that fraction of millimeter caused mirror to stuck.

stevebrot · 02-15-2021, 12:54 PM

Originally posted by puandr

Probably some legacy magic.

Originally posted by puandr

Or I tried to screw it on too hard and that fraction of millimeter caused mirror to stuck.

Both are highly unlikely. You may want to ask yourself why something that would not screw on fully a few days ago does so today. One possibility is that the meter switch was in the "on" (up) position a few days ago. Another possibility is that the A/M switch for the lens is in the "M" position now (see below)...

Originally posted by stevebrot

For cases where the pin is well-aligned, but too deep, it is tempting to attempt a mount with with the A/M switch in the M position using gravity as an assist to keep it in a retracted position through several revolutions until the lens is full seated. While there is potential for success, the larger risk is potential to not be able to clear the coupler for unmount. In such case, the lens will be stuck on the camera with few obvious options for freedom.

A third possibility is that something that was properly aligned a few days ago is no longer properly aligned. Does open-aperture metering with SMC/S-M-C lenses still work?

Steve

(...beware of any mechanical or electronic failure that cures itself...)

puandr · 02-16-2021, 10:33 AM

I've made some more experiments.
Both CZJ lenses do not screw fully in, there is still ca 0.5 millimeter gap between body and lens outer barrel. The only Pentax M42 lens I have is SMC Takumar 50/1.4 and it sits tightly, no gap at all.
The problem have to be in CZJ lens protruding rear element. My initial problem was that I've seen the gap between lens and body and tried to screw the lens in with pretty hard effort, resulting in stucking mirror. Today I've screwed Flektogon pretty tight, so the mirror stuck after taking a shot and then turned backwards for 10-15 degrees, until mirror returned in its normal position. Looks like this is the solution, through viewfinder it looks like there is no problem with infinity, focusing and changing aperture do not unscrew the lens (so it have to be screwed tight enough).
Off course I have to put a test roll through, to verify, that it doesn't affect the final result.

09-07-2017, 09:38 AM	#1
tonnu New Member Join Date: Sep 2017 Posts: 1	zeiss flektogon 35 f2.4 on spotmatic F? hi there, just got my spotmatic F and was trying my m42 lenses on it takumar 50 f1.8 -> no problems auto takumar 35 f2 -> no problems helios 44-2 -> no problems pentacon 29 f2.8 -> no problems BUT the pin got stuck and i spent a good 30 minutes trying to release the damn lens ... almost sawed it off however, two of the m42 lenses in my collection do not work: flektogon 35 f2.4 and meyer 50 f1.8 and it's a shame as these two are obviously my favorite and ones that i wanted to try the most on the spf!! the problem is i can screw it in but when i get to almost like 75%, then it stops turning. there's a "springy" resistance -> i.e. it's not a HARD stop, i can screw it in a bit more, and then the lens would be pushed back counter clockwise anyone knows how to resolve the problem? any adapters or modifications possible? or should i just get a normal spotmatic thanks!

09-07-2017, 11:02 AM	#3
g026r Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,074	Originally posted by photoptimist Might those lenses have protruding back elements that hit the mirror or structures inside the camera? If it's a silver Flektogon, that might be a possibility. Some of the earlier CZJ lenses were built for cameras with much smaller mirrors/larger mirror clearances than the Spotmatics and can protrude into the mirror box a bit. (e.g. The only time I tried to use my Tessar on my Spotmatic, it screwed on but the mirror smacked the ring around the back element. Never had a Flektogon though.) Last edited by g026r; 09-07-2017 at 09:21 PM.

09-07-2017, 11:42 AM	#4
boriscleto Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: North Syracuse, NY Photos: Gallery Posts: 16,475	My Helios 44M won't screw all the way into a Spot F. It's not because of a protruding element. hitting the mirror. The rear element / mount projects just far enough to hit the aperture linkage. 44M compared to 8-element Super Tak 50/1.4 Last edited by boriscleto; 09-07-2017 at 11:58 AM.

02-14-2021, 04:48 PM	#12
g026r Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,074	Originally posted by Kenzie2k3 I have a Flek on my SP1000 with no issues. Could depend on the lens model. What paudar is describing exactly matches the behaviour of the CZJ Tessar I mentioned above, and most Tessar models definitely worked on Spotmatics. Last edited by g026r; 02-14-2021 at 05:08 PM.

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09-07-2017, 10:49 AM	#2
photoptimist Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2016 Photos: Albums Posts: 5,127	Might those lenses have protruding back elements that hit the mirror or structures inside the camera?

09-07-2017, 03:34 PM	#5
Na Horuk Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Slovenia, probably Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,186	Compare how far back the element protrudes at most and compare the actual mount threads between the lenses that can be mounted normally and those that can't. Maybe post a photo of the threads? I only use Flektogon on Kmount APSC DSLRs with adapter, so I never encountered that problem.

09-07-2017, 08:41 PM	#6
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by boriscleto The rear element / mount projects just far enough to hit the aperture linkage. By linkage, you mean the aperture position coupler at the top of the mirror box, right? Before this thread, I was unaware that some GDR and FSU lenses have deeper threads than my Asahi, Vivitar, Rikenon, LZOS, and Tamron M42 mounts and which causes a problem with the Spotmatic F. There is always something new. Originally posted by Na Horuk I only use Flektogon on Kmount APSC DSLRs with adapter, so I never encountered that problem. It is only a problem with the Spotmatic variants that support open-aperture metering. Steve

09-23-2017, 04:49 PM - 1 Like	#7
thenewreligion New Member Join Date: Jul 2017 Posts: 16	Hey I have same setup here and was similarly heartbroken so I played around and figured it out! Depends if your model is like mine. Turned out it was the aperature pin on the lens that was catching the aperature indexing lever on the camera, not the rear element itself. I found that when the lens was switched to manual mode the pin would just flop up into the camera when held rear element up. So I left it like that and mounted the lens with the camera face-down so gravity could hold the pin in. Voila it mounted all the way! I switched the lens back to auto and it works like normal, open aperature (edit: I mean stop-down) metering and all! (Well, with limitations on my buggy spotmatic - see my other thread ). So I think it's just the extra-long pin and probably only happens on the F cause of that lever. Again my model is the electric mc flektogon czj so dunno if it works the same for all. Oh and if I didn't explain it well let me know and I'll post pics. . Oh and even with deeper rear element, once mounted no probs with infinity. Oh and be warned that removing the land is a little tricky to, just found that out. In order to remove the lens it has to return to manual mode so that the pin can fall forward again so it will clear the aperature indexing lever again. In order to switch it to manual mode, it needs to be partially dismounted , Maybe 1/8 of a turn so that the tiny pin that locks it in auto mode can be un-pressed. Then you have to tip the camera face down and jiggle it so the pin will fall into the lens. Then it can be unscrewed all the way. So, before putting the lens on, I recommend making sure The pin is floppy enough to be reliably moved in and out with gravity and jiggling alone. Otherwise, I suppose this could just be a very nice fixed – lens camera :-) Oh yah I guess alternatively if you're only gonn a use it on this camera you could just file down the pin. Last edited by thenewreligion; 09-23-2017 at 05:55 PM. Reason: Addendum

09-24-2017, 09:32 AM	#8
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by thenewreligion Turned out it was the aperature pin on the lens that was catching the aperature indexing lever on the camera, not the rear element itself. Wow! That must be a very long pin, though I can see how it might happen. Steve

02-14-2021, 09:54 AM	#9
puandr New Member Join Date: Feb 2021 Posts: 4	Hello, it's an old threat, but maybe someone survived.. I have a similar setup: Spotmatic F and Flektogon 35/2.4 and the hint with the pin doesn't work for me. The lens doesn't screw all the way in and after releasing a shutter the mirror is stuck in up position. If I unscrew lens a bit, the mirror is getting back nicely. Don't have much hope, but could there be any solution to this problem? Is it safe to make the barrel shorter? PS You can also recommend another M42 body for the Flektogon, I'd like to give it a "film life" Andrei

02-14-2021, 11:38 AM	#10
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by puandr Hello, it's an old threat, but maybe someone survived.. I have a similar setup: Spotmatic F and Flektogon 35/2.4 and the hint with the pin doesn't work for me. The lens doesn't screw all the way in and after releasing a shutter the mirror is stuck in up position. If I unscrew lens a bit, the mirror is getting back nicely. Don't have much hope, but could there be any solution to this problem? Is it safe to make the barrel shorter? PS You can also recommend another M42 body for the Flektogon, I'd like to give it a "film life" Andrei Yes, this is an old thread, but the problem with non-Pentax lenses on the Spotmatic F is still very current. There us a more recent thread on the subject where options are described in detail. Spotmatic F, ES, ESII \| Third-party Lens Compatibility - PentaxForums.com Steve

02-14-2021, 11:52 AM	#11
Kenzie2k3 Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 36	I have a Flek on my SP1000 with no issues.

02-15-2021, 09:34 AM	#13
puandr New Member Join Date: Feb 2021 Posts: 4	Hmm.. I remembered that I have another CZJ lens - 135/3.5. So I gave it a try and it worked fine. I started to compare 135 and 35 and their rear ends looked absolutely identical. So... I've screwed Flektogon on once again.... And it works!!! I don't know what was the cause of yesterday failures, I tried at least 10 times. Probably some legacy magic. Or I tried to screw it on too hard and that fraction of millimeter caused mirror to stuck.

02-15-2021, 12:54 PM	#14
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by puandr Probably some legacy magic. Originally posted by puandr Or I tried to screw it on too hard and that fraction of millimeter caused mirror to stuck. Both are highly unlikely. You may want to ask yourself why something that would not screw on fully a few days ago does so today. One possibility is that the meter switch was in the "on" (up) position a few days ago. Another possibility is that the A/M switch for the lens is in the "M" position now (see below)... Originally posted by stevebrot For cases where the pin is well-aligned, but too deep, it is tempting to attempt a mount with with the A/M switch in the M position using gravity as an assist to keep it in a retracted position through several revolutions until the lens is full seated. While there is potential for success, the larger risk is potential to not be able to clear the coupler for unmount. In such case, the lens will be stuck on the camera with few obvious options for freedom. A third possibility is that something that was properly aligned a few days ago is no longer properly aligned. Does open-aperture metering with SMC/S-M-C lenses still work? Steve (...beware of any mechanical or electronic failure that cures itself...)

02-16-2021, 10:33 AM	#15
puandr New Member Join Date: Feb 2021 Posts: 4	I've made some more experiments. Both CZJ lenses do not screw fully in, there is still ca 0.5 millimeter gap between body and lens outer barrel. The only Pentax M42 lens I have is SMC Takumar 50/1.4 and it sits tightly, no gap at all. The problem have to be in CZJ lens protruding rear element. My initial problem was that I've seen the gap between lens and body and tried to screw the lens in with pretty hard effort, resulting in stucking mirror. Today I've screwed Flektogon pretty tight, so the mirror stuck after taking a shot and then turned backwards for 10-15 degrees, until mirror returned in its normal position. Looks like this is the solution, through viewfinder it looks like there is no problem with infinity, focusing and changing aperture do not unscrew the lens (so it have to be screwed tight enough). Off course I have to put a test roll through, to verify, that it doesn't affect the final result.