Compactness...

nickthetasmaniac · 04-05-2018, 04:25 PM

Originally posted by Zivelot

I meant mainly the Heliar 15mm that grew with each version. But other large aperture lenses seem to quite big for a rangefinder lens. Top: 35mm 1.2 Nokton, bottom: Skopar 35mm 2.4. I get that large aperture is an advantage but it sort of takes away the advantage of rangefinder systems ( small lens with a compact/ish/ body).

But you said the new Voigtlander were getting as big as SLR lenses - where's the SLR 35/f1.2 as small as the VM?

I'm not sure what point you're making comparing a f1.2 to a f2.4, nor who said that the advantage of rangefinders was size (it's one of the advantages, not the advantage...)

Theov39 · 04-05-2018, 04:47 PM

Nice shot! What is the SMALLEST Pentax film SLR camera?

I can't make up my mind between getting the Pentax ME Super or the Super A (Pentax Super Program). I tend to prefer higher degrees of automation.

Which one do you guys think is 'better'? Yes, I know that is a relative term

LesDMess · 04-05-2018, 08:51 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Theov39

Nice shot! What is the SMALLEST Pentax film camera?

I can't make up my mind between getting the Pentax ME Super or the Super A (Pentax Super Program). I tend to prefer higher degrees of automation.

Which one do you guys think is 'better'? Yes, I know that is a relative term

If by smallest you mean fully manual SLRs rgeadless of brand/model then the smallest would be the MX.

If by smallest SLR with interchangeable viewfinders regardless of brand then it would be the LX.

BTW, not only are the LX & MX the smallest in their class, they also have the largest viewfinder magnification of any SLR.

Theov39 · 04-05-2018, 09:36 PM

Thank you very much Les. That is very helpful! I meant within the Pentax range.

After reading some more reviews, I think I will go with the Super A as it has TTL flash and Program mode which I like. The ME and Super ME are getting pricey in Australia. The days of $20 SLRs are over.... at least when it comes to Pentax.

Eyewanders · 04-07-2018, 03:35 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Theov39

The days of $20 SLRs are over.... at least when it comes to Pentax.

I reckon that's true in general... Seems the film exodus to digital freed up a great many cameras in the world over the past decade roughly that were no longer needed or desired by their previous owners. Every shooter that had them was letting them go with no plans to return. Some finally did (myself) as well as a new generation interested and now the supply is drying up and prices continue to climb. It's a bit bizarre.

**TomB_tx** · 04-07-2018, 04:36 PM - **1 Like**

"Compactness" isn't just about the front view, but the overall shape and volume. The design constraint of the Leica from 1924 to 1954 was that the camera with standard lens attached needed to fit easily in the pocket of a suit coat. That's why Leica offered 50 mm lenses that collapsed into the body to make a flat package. They made collapsible 50s until 1972, then re-introduced one from 1994 to 2007. They still make a collapsible 90mm. The first Leica I used in the 1960s (when I had an H1a) used a collapsible 50 Elmar f2.8, which looked funny compared to all the SLRs, but it sold me on Leica.
Not only is the Leica body (including lens mount) much thinner than an SLR, but the wide and normal lenses were much smaller until recent years, when their high-speed lenses grew more complex for digital. I still use some old collapsible lenses which slide back into the body cavity almost to the shutter for carrying. That's one advantage of not having a reflex mirror.
In about 1940 their new models were made 1/8 inch longer, and people complained because they felt larger. When they introduced the M3 in 1954 they didn't know if it would succeed, because all the new features made it quite a bit larger. They not only kept the old screw-mount models in production, but even introduced a new model in that line (the IIIg) three years later. But the M3 was so successful it killed off most of the Japanese competitors that made rangefinders similar to the old Leica, and pushed the remaining to switch to SLRs.
So Leica added features again and came out with the even larger M5 in 1971, but it felt too large, so the went back to the original M3 size for subsequent models. The M10 is again back almost to that same size and shape, as people complained the previous digital M bodies felt too thick. (Perhaps 1/8 inch thicker.)
I got back into Pentax when the MX came out for a "carry around" camera just for the size and way it fit my hands. Then when Leica downsized their SLR with the R4 model it became my main SLR.
Small differences in size and shape do affect a lot of us.

timw4mail · 04-07-2018, 05:35 PM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by Theov39

Nice shot! What is the SMALLEST Pentax film camera?

I'm pretty sure it's actually the Auto 110

**twilhelm** · 04-07-2018, 05:54 PM - **1 Like**

The Auto 110 is small. For 35mm I think the *ist film camera may be the smallest. While a bit thicker, it’s a full inch smaller side to side than the LX and about 1/4 inch shorter.

**ChrisPlatt** · 04-08-2018, 10:56 AM

When introduced my brother bought his first wife a Pentax Auto 110 set.
I was amazed at the quality of the 4x5" photos that little gem could produce.
I'd own one today if film was still manufactured and processing widely available.

Chris

timw4mail · 04-09-2018, 03:34 AM

Originally posted by ChrisPlatt

When introduced my brother bought his first wife a Pentax Auto 110 set.
I was amazed at the quality of the 4x5" photos that little gem could produce.
I'd own one today if film was still manufactured and processing widely available.

Chris

Lomography has the three major film types in 110 format: C-41 color, slide, and B&W.

Processing and the film is more expensive than 35mm, though.

04-05-2018, 04:47 PM	#17
Theov39 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: Sydney Posts: 594	Nice shot! What is the SMALLEST Pentax film SLR camera? I can't make up my mind between getting the Pentax ME Super or the Super A (Pentax Super Program). I tend to prefer higher degrees of automation. Which one do you guys think is 'better'? Yes, I know that is a relative term Last edited by Theov39; 04-08-2018 at 02:18 PM.

04-05-2018, 08:51 PM - 1 Like	#18
LesDMess Pentaxian Join Date: May 2011 Location: Santa Cruz, CA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,235	Originally posted by Theov39 Nice shot! What is the SMALLEST Pentax film camera? I can't make up my mind between getting the Pentax ME Super or the Super A (Pentax Super Program). I tend to prefer higher degrees of automation. Which one do you guys think is 'better'? Yes, I know that is a relative term If by smallest you mean fully manual SLRs rgeadless of brand/model then the smallest would be the MX. If by smallest SLR with interchangeable viewfinders regardless of brand then it would be the LX. BTW, not only are the LX & MX the smallest in their class, they also have the largest viewfinder magnification of any SLR. Last edited by LesDMess; 04-05-2018 at 09:07 PM.

04-08-2018, 10:56 AM	#24
ChrisPlatt Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Rockaway Beach NYC Posts: 7,692	Pentax Auto 110 When introduced my brother bought his first wife a Pentax Auto 110 set. I was amazed at the quality of the 4x5" photos that little gem could produce. I'd own one today if film was still manufactured and processing widely available. Chris

04-05-2018, 04:25 PM	#16
nickthetasmaniac Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 2,361	Originally posted by Zivelot I meant mainly the Heliar 15mm that grew with each version. But other large aperture lenses seem to quite big for a rangefinder lens. Top: 35mm 1.2 Nokton, bottom: Skopar 35mm 2.4. I get that large aperture is an advantage but it sort of takes away the advantage of rangefinder systems ( small lens with a compact/ish/ body). But you said the new Voigtlander were getting as big as SLR lenses - where's the SLR 35/f1.2 as small as the VM? I'm not sure what point you're making comparing a f1.2 to a f2.4, nor who said that the advantage of rangefinders was size (it's one of the advantages, not the advantage...)

04-05-2018, 09:36 PM	#19
Theov39 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: Sydney Posts: 594	Thank you very much Les. That is very helpful! I meant within the Pentax range. After reading some more reviews, I think I will go with the Super A as it has TTL flash and Program mode which I like. The ME and Super ME are getting pricey in Australia. The days of $20 SLRs are over.... at least when it comes to Pentax.

04-07-2018, 03:35 PM - 1 Like	#20
Eyewanders Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Land of the Salish Sea Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,343	Originally posted by Theov39 The days of $20 SLRs are over.... at least when it comes to Pentax. I reckon that's true in general... Seems the film exodus to digital freed up a great many cameras in the world over the past decade roughly that were no longer needed or desired by their previous owners. Every shooter that had them was letting them go with no plans to return. Some finally did (myself) as well as a new generation interested and now the supply is drying up and prices continue to climb. It's a bit bizarre.

04-07-2018, 04:36 PM - 1 Like	#21
TomB_tx Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Texas Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,446	"Compactness" isn't just about the front view, but the overall shape and volume. The design constraint of the Leica from 1924 to 1954 was that the camera with standard lens attached needed to fit easily in the pocket of a suit coat. That's why Leica offered 50 mm lenses that collapsed into the body to make a flat package. They made collapsible 50s until 1972, then re-introduced one from 1994 to 2007. They still make a collapsible 90mm. The first Leica I used in the 1960s (when I had an H1a) used a collapsible 50 Elmar f2.8, which looked funny compared to all the SLRs, but it sold me on Leica. Not only is the Leica body (including lens mount) much thinner than an SLR, but the wide and normal lenses were much smaller until recent years, when their high-speed lenses grew more complex for digital. I still use some old collapsible lenses which slide back into the body cavity almost to the shutter for carrying. That's one advantage of not having a reflex mirror. In about 1940 their new models were made 1/8 inch longer, and people complained because they felt larger. When they introduced the M3 in 1954 they didn't know if it would succeed, because all the new features made it quite a bit larger. They not only kept the old screw-mount models in production, but even introduced a new model in that line (the IIIg) three years later. But the M3 was so successful it killed off most of the Japanese competitors that made rangefinders similar to the old Leica, and pushed the remaining to switch to SLRs. So Leica added features again and came out with the even larger M5 in 1971, but it felt too large, so the went back to the original M3 size for subsequent models. The M10 is again back almost to that same size and shape, as people complained the previous digital M bodies felt too thick. (Perhaps 1/8 inch thicker.) I got back into Pentax when the MX came out for a "carry around" camera just for the size and way it fit my hands. Then when Leica downsized their SLR with the R4 model it became my main SLR. Small differences in size and shape do affect a lot of us.

04-07-2018, 05:35 PM - 2 Likes	#22
timw4mail Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Driving a Mirage Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,670	Originally posted by Theov39 Nice shot! What is the SMALLEST Pentax film camera? I'm pretty sure it's actually the Auto 110

04-07-2018, 05:54 PM - 1 Like	#23
twilhelm Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Florida Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,369	The Auto 110 is small. For 35mm I think the *ist film camera may be the smallest. While a bit thicker, it’s a full inch smaller side to side than the LX and about 1/4 inch shorter.

04-09-2018, 03:34 AM	#25
timw4mail Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Driving a Mirage Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,670	Originally posted by ChrisPlatt When introduced my brother bought his first wife a Pentax Auto 110 set. I was amazed at the quality of the 4x5" photos that little gem could produce. I'd own one today if film was still manufactured and processing widely available. Chris Lomography has the three major film types in 110 format: C-41 color, slide, and B&W. Processing and the film is more expensive than 35mm, though.