[Digitalis]

What's the best (cheapest) way to buy chemistry?

In my opinion the best way to go about this is to find a good chemical supply company and brew your own developers.

The actual ingredients:Kodak D76:Sodium sulphite (7757-83-7), Hydroquinone (123-31-9), Bis(4-hydroxy-N-methylanilinium) sulphate(55-55-0)Clayton F76:Potassium Metabisulfite (16731-55-8), Potassium Hydroxide 1310-58-3 2-5

The fun thing with making your own "D-76+" is when you alter the ratios of the ingredients you can figure out which component chemical does what - and from then on you can experiment with the ratios of the component chemicals and figuring out working dilutions and process timings that deliver exactly the right contrast and tonality that you want and you can a set in motion a highly refined developing process of your own. As a rule, scanners work best with lower contrast negatives*. When shooting with the ultimate intent to scan expose for the shadows and develop your film for the highlights.


Personally I work with Pyrocatechol based developers, pyro [1,2-Dihydroxybenzene] developers are simple enough to make**. PMK developers stain negatives and the degree of stain is influenced by density. So when images are scanned the stain acts like a contrast mask and helps control the dynamic range of the resulting scan.


* Also the choice in scanner plays a significant role in this, cheap scanners have sensors that can only handle so much dynamic range and produce scans with below average levels of sharpness. More expensive scanners can have truly massive dynamic ranges and high sharpness - you get more exposure leeway with the more expensive product, but when the stars align you can get truly stunning scans.

** just be careful when handling Pyrocatechol.

[tonyzoc]

In my opinion the best way to go about this is to find a good chemical supply company and brew your own developers.




The fun thing with making your own "D-76+" is when you alter the ratios of the ingredients you can figure out which component chemical does what - and from then on you can experiment with the ratios of the component chemicals and figuring out working dilutions and process timings that deliver exactly the right contrast and tonality that you want and you can a set in motion a highly refined developing process of your own. As a rule, scanners work best with lower contrast negatives*. When shooting with the ultimate intent to scan expose for the shadows and develop your film for the highlights.


Personally I work with Pyrocatechol based developers, pyro [1,2-Dihydroxybenzene] developers are simple enough to make**. PMK developers stain negatives and the degree of stain is influenced by density. So when images are scanned the stain acts like a contrast mask and helps control the dynamic range of the resulting scan.


* Also the choice in scanner plays a significant role in this, cheap scanners have sensors that can only handle so much dynamic range and produce scans with below average levels of sharpness. More expensive scanners can have truly massive dynamic ranges and high sharpness - you get more exposure leeway with the more expensive product, but when the stars align you can get truly stunning scans.

** just be careful when handling Pyrocatechol.

Thanks ..I though about this approach but haven't priced it out yet. I would definitely use gloves and a face mask when handling these chemicals especially as I don't have a laboratory hood to work in. I'm a chemist by education so this approach appeals to me.

[stevebrot]

I'm curious what digital image post processing adds to his concept ..if I shrink zones on the negative can I stretch them back out in darkroom?

Good question! As we know, minor miracles can be done in the traditional darkroom print process.* My experience with scanned images is that they are fairly "brittle" when attempts are made at doing the kind of PP that I routinely apply to digital RAW captures.


Steve

* Referencing Ansel Adams again, neither the original negative nor the initial contact print for "Moonrise, Hernadez, New Mexico" give much cause for encouragement, though Adams was up to the challenge. (Image for the negative HERE...and the contact print HERE)

[titrisol]

I played with Clayton's chemistry about 15yrs ago, Lowell Huff from Clayton sent me a box of samples once after asking him about development times of films he hadn't tested.
Their F76+ was a good everyday developer, kinda similar to the results you can get with DDXn under the right ondicitons
It worked great with APX100 (my bread-n-butter at the time), EFKE100, Acros and with the Delta (great result with 3200) films.
AFAIK it is a phenidone based developer but never got too much into the composition of it as much as the results from it

Clayton 76+ Developer | Photrio.com Photography Forums

The chemistry they had and I thought was awesome was their cold-tone paper developer

Yes, that is correct, and I never wrote D76=F76+. Clayton would have a patent infringement lawsuit with Kodak. The actual ingredients:

Kodak D76:
Sodium sulphite (7757-83-7), Hydroquinone (123-31-9), Bis(4-hydroxy-N-methylanilinium) sulphate
(55-55-0)

Clayton F76:
Potassium Metabisulfite (16731-55-8), Potassium Hydroxide 1310-58-3 2-5

What I meant is that they are essentially the same in that they are both general film developers. Developers are often assessed by speed, grain, contrast, and price. Identical? No. More similar than different? Yes. The main practical difference I have found between the two is that D-76 has a better shelf life but more expensive. F76+ is less expensive, has more speed, but not the best shelf life. But IMO the two developers will give you very similar results.

[pentaxus]

Developer components are now made in small quantities leading to higher prices.

[Digitalis]

I'm a chemist by education so this approach appeals to me.

AHA! so am I.

[titrisol]

Thanks ..I though about this approach but haven't priced it out yet. I would definitely use gloves and a face mask when handling these chemicals especially as I don't have a laboratory hood to work in. I'm a chemist by education so this approach appeals to me.

There used to be many good resources for formulas in the interwebs... a few have vanished, but the unblinkingeye is still alive
Articles on Photography

photrio also has a decent section of recipes

[disconnekt]

There used to be many good resources for formulas in the interwebs... a few have vanished, but the unblinkingeye is still alive
Articles on Photography

photrio also has a decent section of recipes

Archive.org is also a good place to find older formulas (here's one for Agfa formula books Agfa Formulas for Photographic Use : Agfa-Ansco Corporation : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive), though it'll take a bit to put in the righ keywords to find em on there.

[titrisol]

That's cool!
There are many good books there

I have an original AGFA formulary (Rezepte) from the 1950s in German! I'll check this one but it seems most of the formulas are the same

Here is one with the similar cover. Mine was bound at some point by my uncle to preent it from falling apart

https://www.lindemanns.de/shop/fotobuchhandlung/98534a-agfa--franz-luehr--ab...fa-rezepte.php

Archive.org is also a good place to find older formulas (here's one for Agfa formula books Agfa Formulas for Photographic Use : Agfa-Ansco Corporation : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive), though it'll take a bit to put in the righ keywords to find em on there.

[Xmas]

Try
-- ID-11 D76 Variants --
I’d not use metol myself... phenodine is better in every way, eg id still use face mask and rubber gloves.
A Rodinal clone at 1:100 for an hour is simple!

[disconnekt]

That's cool!
There are many good books there

I have an original AGFA formulary from the 1950s in German! I'll check this one but it seems most of the formulas are the same

If you make your own B&W film developer, check out "The Darkroom Cookbook" by Steve Anchell

[titrisol]

I got the 1st ed as a Xmas present in 2000 or 2001

Just ordered 2nd ed of the FIlm Cookbook for this xmas.... 2020 is awesome!
https://www.routledge.com/The-Film-Developing-Cookbook/Troop-Anchell/p/book/9781138204874

If you make your own B&W film developer, check out "The Darkroom Cookbook" by Steve Anchell

[Digitalis]

I have an original AGFA formulary from the 1950s in German!

Hold on to that - it is probably a collectors item, and would be worth a lot to the right people by now.

[tuco]

My grandparents would go shopping and complain about how expensive things were. I think they forgot about 30-years worth of inflation from the prices they had in mind. But, yeah, C-41 is climbing more than inflation. Perhaps supply and demand makes for higher cost? You know, if you're not selling huge volumes of a product the cost per unit goes significantly up.

Anyway, I'll review the cost of some of the chemicals I use. I'm curious what they are.


T-F4 Fixer: A non-harding, alkaline Ph fixer that needs no acid stop bath or hypo wash. Suitable for pyro stained negatives

$14 per liter. Capacity 15-20 rolls per liter of working solution = 75-100 rolls per 1 liter of stock solution.
= $0.14 - $0.23 per roll

PMK Pyro: 10-year shelf life, single-shot developer:

$40 per 50 liters of working solution, 2 rolls (160 square inches) of film per liter.
= $0.40 per roll or (4) 4x5 sheets

D-23 1:1, Practically indefinite shelf life, single-shot (always fresh), Mix two dry chemicals: Metol and Sodium Sulfite

Metol: $9 per 100 grams
NA2SO3: $17.50 per 1350 grams

1 roll per 1.9g Methol and 25g NA2SO3
$26.50 for about 54 rolls ~ $0.50 per roll

ADOX Rodinal: Long shelf life, single-shot developer:

$16 per 500ml.
1+50 = 10ml per roll = 50 rolls @ $0.32 per roll
1+100 = $0.16 per roll

Jobo C-41 Press Kit/Unicolor C-41 Kit:

$25 per 1-liter kit, approx 10-12 rolls per liter. It's pretty variable how much you get due to age, etc
~ $2.50 per roll

Tetenal Colortec C-41 Kit:

$32 per 1-liter kit. About 16 rolls per kit if processed in a relatively short period of time ( by BW standards). And if the film is 400 and faster, fewer rolls, the instructions say
~ $2.00 per roll

Color is expensive since I often don't get full capacity. But what can you expect. How many people shoot color and develop their own color film anymore? BW chemicals I use are so cheap for me that it's not a factor. It's the film that is getting expensive!

[StiffLegged]

The actual ingredients:

Kodak D76:
Sodium sulphite (7757-83-7), Hydroquinone (123-31-9), Bis(4-hydroxy-N-methylanilinium) sulphate
(55-55-0)

Ahem. You're missing the borax.

Metol: 2g
Sodium sulphite (anhydrous) 100g
Hydroquinone 5g
Borax 2g
Cold water to 1 litre