[UncleVanya]

I bet its mirror slap was detectable by seismographs

There have been some excellent comments in this thread, but this one wins!

[barondla]

A picture of the Graflex 5x7 slr next to a Pentax K10D with battery grip. We photographers are such wimps today. Besides the size and weight I'm not sure I'd ever remembered all the steps to set the proper shutter speed and fire the beast. Puts a whole new spin on full frame. Thanks bertwert, go26r, and everyone else for all the info.

thanks,
barondla

[Wasp]

A picture of the Graflex 5x7 slr next to a Pentax K10D with battery grip. We photographers are such wimps today. Besides the size and weight I'm not sure I'd ever remembered all the steps to set the proper shutter speed and fire the beast. Puts a whole new spin on full frame. Thanks bertwert, go26r, and everyone else for all the info.

thanks,
barondla

Setting shutter speed and aperture is only the beginning. After each exposure, you need to change the film as well. Without fogging the old one or the new one - a complicated process involving things called dark slides. None of those new fangled roll films for real photographers. Life is lived one frame at a time. To think that modern day photographers complain about any DSLR that "only" shoots three frames per second. With the Graflex three frames per minute is good going.

[TwoUptons]

I bet its mirror slap was detectable by seismographs

On the 4x5, it isn’t as bad as I expected. Part of that is because it isn’t very fast. The rest is because it isn’t an instant return mirror, so you have to pull it down yourself.

-Eric

[bertwert]

A picture of the Graflex 5x7 slr next to a Pentax K10D with battery grip

Which one is which?

[TwoUptons]

Which one is which?

The K10 says “Pentax” on it

-Eric

[Wasp]

On the 4x5, it isn’t as bad as I expected. Part of that is because it isn’t very fast. The rest is because it isn’t an instant return mirror, so you have to pull it down yourself.

-Eric

Ah yes, the lack of an instant return mirror. Those only came in the 1950s. AFAIK the Asahi Optical Company was one of the first to market with those.

I hadn't thought about resetting the mirror before. That would make three frames per minute a real feat. Even two frames per minute would be pushing it.

[bertwert]

The K10 says “Pentax” on it

-Eric

Ah, thanks! I had no way of telling...

[Wasp]

Operating this big boy is not for the faint of heart. I am trying to picture what the drill was. Here is my best guess about the challenge facing the Graflex guy one century ago. Feel free to fill in the missing bits.

1. In darkroom, load up film holders with 5x7 negatives
2. Load up film holders and camera and proceed to venue in your horseless carriage
3. Upon arrival, unfold camera
4. Load film holder
5. Cock shutter
6. Lower mirror
7. Survey scene and guess exposure - light meters only came along in the 1930s
8. Set shutter width, not speed
9. Set aperture
10. Remove dark slide from film holder
11. Compose, probably with camera on tripod
12. Focus your f/11 or f/16 lens - f/8 lenses were probably considered fast in this era
13. Wait for the decisive moment
14. Pull the trigger to fire shutter - I can't imagine that a button is the right word in this context
15. Put dark slide back in, do not mess this up or the image will be ruined
16. Go back to step 4 and repeat
17. When out of film or ideas, return to darkroom in your horseless carriage
18. Develop negatives
19. Print negatives
20. Go back to step 1 and repeat

[g026r]

Operating this big boy is not for the faint of heart. I am trying to picture what the drill was. Here is my best guess about the challenge facing the Graflex guy one century ago. Feel free to fill in the missing bits.

A few notes:

4. Cock shutter
5. Lower mirror

First, you'd want to make certain the camera is in instantaneous mode. (The manufacturer-recommended order of steps for setting the shutter is different when you're in time mode.)

Assuming you are, you'd then lower the mirror before setting the shutter; you can't wind the Graflex SLR shutters in instantaneous mode unless the mirror is in place. This is to prevent accidentally exposing the film while you're winding. (Speed Graphics have no such safety mechanism on their focal plane shutters; ask me how I know this. )

Once the mirror is in place, you'd go about setting the shutter. This is a two step process:

1. Set the shutter width. This is the knob on the top back corner.
2. Set the shutter tension, which controls how fast the curtain moves. This is the knob on the bottom back corner.

The combination of shutter width & shutter tension gives you the exposure time, which can be checked on the plate over the lens.

12. Focus your f/11 or f/16 lens - f/8 lenses were probably considered fast in this era
13. Wait for the decisive moment

There's a good chance the lens is f5.6 or even f4.5. Graflex tended to use fairly decent lens speeds, since they were intended for press use. (I'm certain being Kodak's professional equipment division during much of this period helped in that regards.)

There should also be a step 12.5 in there: set the aperture.
Since AFAIK only the very late models released after they had discontinued 5x7 cameras had any sort of semi-automatic aperture control, you'd want to leave setting the aperture until the end in order to prevent the focusing screen from getting too dark.

[Wasp]

A few notes:

First, you'd want to make certain the camera is in instantaneous mode. (The manufacturer-recommended order of steps for setting the shutter is different when you're in time mode.)

Assuming you are, you'd then lower the mirror before setting the shutter; you can't wind the Graflex SLR shutters in instantaneous mode unless the mirror is in place. This is to prevent accidentally exposing the film while you're winding. (Speed Graphics have no such safety mechanism on their focal plane shutters; ask me how I know this. )

Once the mirror is in place, you'd go about setting the shutter. This is a two step process:

1. Set the shutter width. This is the knob on the top back corner.
2. Set the shutter tension, which controls how fast the curtain moves. This is the knob on the bottom back corner.

The combination of shutter width & shutter tension gives you the exposure time, which can be checked on the plate over the lens.

There's a good chance the lens is f5.6 or even f4.5. Graflex tended to use fairly decent lens speeds, since they were intended for press use. (I'm certain being Kodak's professional equipment division during much of this period helped in that regards.)

There should also be a step 12.5 in there: set the aperture.
Since AFAIK only the very late models released after they had discontinued 5x7 cameras had any sort of semi-automatic aperture control, you'd want to leave setting the aperture until the end in order to prevent the focusing screen from getting too dark.

Thanks for filling in the gaps. Two controls for shutter speed? That must have required a lot of experience to get it right. Wow, this puts modern day program mode in a new perspective.


I forgot about manual aperture. That one is still around. Users of adapted lenses on mirrorless cameras are still doing it a century later. Progress sure takes some strange turns and detours...

[TwoUptons]

Thanks for filling in the gaps. Two controls for shutter speed? That must have required a lot of experience to get it right. Wow, this puts modern day program mode in a new perspective.

There’s a little metal plate on the side of the camera that tells you which combinations of tension and shutter gap give which equivalent speeds.

And if you’ve ever seen the illusion of speed in a cartoon car done by tilting the tires forward, you can thank the Graflex shutter... as an artifact of the focal plane shutter, fast moving objects aren’t in the same place at the beginning of the exposure as they are at the end. It happens with all focal plane shutters, but it is amplified when the shutter is 5-7 inches across

-Eric

[Wasp]

There’s a little metal plate on the side of the camera that tells you which combinations of tension and shutter gap give which equivalent speeds.

And if you’ve ever seen the illusion of speed in a cartoon car done by tilting the tires forward, you can thank the Graflex shutter... as an artifact of the focal plane shutter, fast moving objects aren’t in the same place at the beginning of the exposure as they are at the end. It happens with all focal plane shutters, but it is amplified when the shutter is 5-7 inches across

-Eric

I have read about that, but I haven't seen an actual camera that was responsible for the phenomenon. Were there any others, apart from the Graflex?




The imagery were so powerful that artists have been using it ever since to give an illusion of speed.

[jack002]

Setting shutter speed and aperture is only the beginning. After each exposure, you need to change the film as well. Without fogging the old one or the new one - a complicated process involving things called dark slides. None of those new fangled roll films for real photographers. Life is lived one frame at a time. To think that modern day photographers complain about any DSLR that "only" shoots three frames per second. With the Graflex three frames per minute is good going.

I am just now learning about dark slides. I got the book The Camera by Ansel Adams. Fascinating stuff

[gaweidert]

About 50 years ago I got to use the 4 x 5 version of that. Impressive gear.


My photographer hero is William Henry Jackson. The first person to photograph the Yellowstone region. He hauled an 11 x 14 camera that used what is called the wet process. That means that he had to mix the emulsion before each exposure, coat a glass plate and then develop the image before the emulsion dried. Exposure based upon experience. He also had to insure that the glass plates did not break during the entire expedition. During one expedition the whole summer's work was lost when the mule carrying the glass plates fell down a cliff. The mule was fine but every glass plate negative was shattered.