World wide colour film shortage.

**ChrisPlatt** · 11-24-2021, 03:13 PM

Worldwide COVID-19 supply chain issues affecting all sorts of products will likely last well into 2022, possibly longer.

Chris

WDsport · 11-24-2021, 03:51 PM

When there's not enough competition the price goes up, and economy of scale from mass production lower costs, neither of which apply to the film industry currently. Covid is a secondary issue the film industry has been going through a crisis for years, and Fuji seems to be acting as if there basic plan is to quit film favoring much more lucrative options.

**hjoseph7** · 11-24-2021, 05:06 PM

Originally posted by ChristianRock

All film prices are ridiculously up.

If they keep raising the prices, film will be gone forever. Right now I treat my 135 mm film like I do 4X5" film where every picture counts, the price is so high. Last year and the previous years, I made sure to stock up on some film when it was cheaper, but that stock is quickly running out...

**ChrisPlatt** · 11-24-2021, 06:12 PM

Originally posted by hjoseph7

Right now I treat my 135 mm film like I do 4X5" film where every picture counts, the price is so high.

IMO this is probably a good idea, regardless of cost.

A graphic artist and photographer I know was raised in post WWII Germany.
Film was very expensive - even 35mm - and very hard to come by.

Consequently he became very frugal and judicious with the use of film.
To this day every image he captures - even digital - is thoughtfully made.

Chris

filmmaster · 11-24-2021, 09:00 PM

Originally posted by Jonathan Mac

I don't think there's "a plant in Asia" supplying all these companies. Lomography take their films where they can get them from a range of manufacturers, including Foma in the Czech Republic. Fuji's production (what little is left of it) is all in Japan, as far as I know, except for Acros II, which is from Ilford.

Kodak drastically reduced their volumes and range well over ten years ago but the last I heard (a few months back) demand had doubled in the previous year or two, so production volumes were on the increase again.

twas on phototrio when the last kodak alaris price jump happened was that the official kodak announcement stated that prices up due to reduced manufacturing of film, combined with an uptick in demand. Shortages were expected until the plant supplying them from Asia was able to get extra film lines running.

Jonathan Mac · 11-25-2021, 05:00 AM

Fuji have for years bene pumping up their prices and then they discontinue lines because no-one buys them (what a surprise!). Kodak seem to have jumped on that wagon of increasing prices even when their volumes are increasing and therefore their economy of scale improving. I imagine their Portra 400 sales have done very well since 400H was discontinued.

And yet we're not seeing big price increases for Ilford or Foma, for example. Are increases in raw material, transport and distribution really limited to colour film and not B&W? I don't see how that can be, which just makes me think that Fuji have opened the door for Kodak to charge whatever they like since they have no competition. It's a shame that the Ferrania resurrection doesn't seem to have gone anywhere as they would have provided some competition.

**pres589** · 11-25-2021, 06:16 AM

I wonder about Kodak management being a bit "confused" which then drives price and availability issues. They seem to go after odd business fads, like that stupid bitcoin miner box, or that COVID loan thing with the government. I wish they would instead focus on their own supply chain issues and keep film available.

Agreed that Ferrania or other color film competition to Kodak and Fuji would be a welcome change.

Jonathan Mac · 11-25-2021, 07:28 AM

I just read this article which states that Fujifilm shut down their film plant at the beginning of the pandemic and it sounds like they haven't yet re-started it. The hopeful part is that their sales seem to be increasing in the UK, which I imagine is one of their biggest markets. They state that they're committed to film, but then they always say that while hiking prices and cutting lines, so we'll see.

https://kosmofoto.com/2021/11/fujifilm-mothballed-film-production-as-pandemi...-to-sell-film/

WDsport · 11-30-2021, 08:29 AM

Fujifilm seem to not be interested in the fact that there are people out there that still care about the analog format. Lets be honest, the money was in motion picture film, with that mostly gone there needs to be different strategies to keep film alive.

**pres589** · 11-30-2021, 09:06 AM

I think Fujifim is a much more diversified company than others like Ilford, Kodak, etc. They can afford to, when it's smart, shut down production and burn off excess inventory. They're interested in what's going on but they're not interested in losing money when economic situation turns against film.

Jonathan Mac · 12-01-2021, 02:17 AM

Originally posted by pres589

I think Fujifim is a much more diversified company than others like Ilford, Kodak, etc. They can afford to, when it's smart, shut down production and burn off excess inventory. They're interested in what's going on but they're not interested in losing money when economic situation turns against film.

I think you're right. TBH I think the film division should be spun off into a separate company that only does that and therefore needs to concentrate only on film.

**pres589** · 12-01-2021, 09:21 AM

A spin-off isn't really how Japanese corporations operate; they seem to prefer larger safety nets, and there's some synergies between the film/film chemicals side of the house and other areas like digital imaging, chemicals, etc. I'd rather see it sold wholesale to some other company that wants to keep some of the film and film chemicals available if Fuji were to sunset those aspects. I just don't know who would be able to take that on. Ilford? Tentenal? ORWO? Who would be the best group to put Superia 1600 back into production?

stevebrot · 12-01-2021, 10:40 AM

Today...In stock at B&H in 35mm:

Pro Image 100 five-pack
Portra 800, 36xp
Ektar 100, 36xp
Gold 200, 36xp
Cinestill 50 Daylight, 36xp
LomoChrome Metropolis 100-400, 36xp
Professional Ektachrome E100, 36xp
Psych Blues 400 #3, 24xp
Psych Blues 400 #5, 24xp
LomoChrome Purple 100-400, 36xp
Bubblegum 200, 36xp
Psych Blues 400 #4, 24xp

...3 1/2 more pages worth...

It appears someone has access to a warehouse...

Steve

ChristianRock · 12-01-2021, 02:52 PM

Originally posted by stevebrot

Today...In stock at B&H in 35mm:

Pro Image 100 five-pack
Portra 800, 36xp
Ektar 100, 36xp
Gold 200, 36xp
Cinestill 50 Daylight, 36xp
LomoChrome Metropolis 100-400, 36xp
Professional Ektachrome E100, 36xp
Psych Blues 400 #3, 24xp
Psych Blues 400 #5, 24xp
LomoChrome Purple 100-400, 36xp
Bubblegum 200, 36xp
Psych Blues 400 #4, 24xp

...3 1/2 more pages worth...

It appears someone has access to a warehouse...

Steve

But the prices being asked, even compared to a year ago, are outrageous.

Back when I was actually shooting film, I was buying Ektar 100 for $5.99, Gold 200 was $2.99. That was 2014-15. Now it's $15.99 and $9.99. Just think about it - 10 bucks for Gold 200!! Earlier this year, ProImage 100 5-pack was $27.99. Now it's $41.99. It's not even a good film (IMHO)!

To me, the film industry is basically dead, it priced itself out of the common people's reach. And that's when film is even available to start with...

**pres589** · 12-01-2021, 03:06 PM

"...the film industry is basically dead..."

I get the sentiment, but come on, hyperbole much? I agree that paying more than $4 a roll for Ultramax, and having to wait and see when seemingly common films are back on shelves, are not great things for film shooters. But I believe this will work itself out over the next year or so. And maybe I'm wrong and I'll find some other way to enjoy that style of shooting. Bulk loading, watching for deals on expired lots, maybe going to a different digital body / manual lens combination that 'feels' more like shooting film. Not getting excited about it.

11-24-2021, 05:06 PM	#33
hjoseph7 Site Supporter Join Date: May 2014 Location: Minnesota Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,047	Originally posted by ChristianRock All film prices are ridiculously up. If they keep raising the prices, film will be gone forever. Right now I treat my 135 mm film like I do 4X5" film where every picture counts, the price is so high. Last year and the previous years, I made sure to stock up on some film when it was cheaper, but that stock is quickly running out... Last edited by hjoseph7; 11-24-2021 at 05:29 PM.

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11-24-2021, 03:13 PM	#31
ChrisPlatt Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Rockaway Beach NYC Posts: 7,694	Worldwide COVID-19 supply chain issues affecting all sorts of products will likely last well into 2022, possibly longer. Chris

11-24-2021, 03:51 PM	#32
WDsport New Member Join Date: Oct 2021 Location: Mobile Posts: 7	When there's not enough competition the price goes up, and economy of scale from mass production lower costs, neither of which apply to the film industry currently. Covid is a secondary issue the film industry has been going through a crisis for years, and Fuji seems to be acting as if there basic plan is to quit film favoring much more lucrative options.

11-24-2021, 06:12 PM	#34
ChrisPlatt Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Rockaway Beach NYC Posts: 7,694	Originally posted by hjoseph7 Right now I treat my 135 mm film like I do 4X5" film where every picture counts, the price is so high. IMO this is probably a good idea, regardless of cost. A graphic artist and photographer I know was raised in post WWII Germany. Film was very expensive - even 35mm - and very hard to come by. Consequently he became very frugal and judicious with the use of film. To this day every image he captures - even digital - is thoughtfully made. Chris

11-24-2021, 09:00 PM	#35
filmmaster Banned Join Date: Nov 2021 Posts: 141	Originally posted by Jonathan Mac I don't think there's "a plant in Asia" supplying all these companies. Lomography take their films where they can get them from a range of manufacturers, including Foma in the Czech Republic. Fuji's production (what little is left of it) is all in Japan, as far as I know, except for Acros II, which is from Ilford. Kodak drastically reduced their volumes and range well over ten years ago but the last I heard (a few months back) demand had doubled in the previous year or two, so production volumes were on the increase again. twas on phototrio when the last kodak alaris price jump happened was that the official kodak announcement stated that prices up due to reduced manufacturing of film, combined with an uptick in demand. Shortages were expected until the plant supplying them from Asia was able to get extra film lines running.

11-25-2021, 05:00 AM	#36
Jonathan Mac Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Madrid, Spain Posts: 10,897	Fuji have for years bene pumping up their prices and then they discontinue lines because no-one buys them (what a surprise!). Kodak seem to have jumped on that wagon of increasing prices even when their volumes are increasing and therefore their economy of scale improving. I imagine their Portra 400 sales have done very well since 400H was discontinued. And yet we're not seeing big price increases for Ilford or Foma, for example. Are increases in raw material, transport and distribution really limited to colour film and not B&W? I don't see how that can be, which just makes me think that Fuji have opened the door for Kodak to charge whatever they like since they have no competition. It's a shame that the Ferrania resurrection doesn't seem to have gone anywhere as they would have provided some competition.

11-25-2021, 06:16 AM	#37
pres589 Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Wichita, KS Photos: Albums Posts: 4,529	I wonder about Kodak management being a bit "confused" which then drives price and availability issues. They seem to go after odd business fads, like that stupid bitcoin miner box, or that COVID loan thing with the government. I wish they would instead focus on their own supply chain issues and keep film available. Agreed that Ferrania or other color film competition to Kodak and Fuji would be a welcome change.

11-25-2021, 07:28 AM	#38
Jonathan Mac Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Madrid, Spain Posts: 10,897	I just read this article which states that Fujifilm shut down their film plant at the beginning of the pandemic and it sounds like they haven't yet re-started it. The hopeful part is that their sales seem to be increasing in the UK, which I imagine is one of their biggest markets. They state that they're committed to film, but then they always say that while hiking prices and cutting lines, so we'll see. https://kosmofoto.com/2021/11/fujifilm-mothballed-film-production-as-pandemi...-to-sell-film/

11-30-2021, 08:29 AM	#39
WDsport New Member Join Date: Oct 2021 Location: Mobile Posts: 7	Fujifilm seem to not be interested in the fact that there are people out there that still care about the analog format. Lets be honest, the money was in motion picture film, with that mostly gone there needs to be different strategies to keep film alive.

11-30-2021, 09:06 AM	#40
pres589 Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Wichita, KS Photos: Albums Posts: 4,529	I think Fujifim is a much more diversified company than others like Ilford, Kodak, etc. They can afford to, when it's smart, shut down production and burn off excess inventory. They're interested in what's going on but they're not interested in losing money when economic situation turns against film.

12-01-2021, 02:17 AM	#41
Jonathan Mac Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Madrid, Spain Posts: 10,897	Originally posted by pres589 I think Fujifim is a much more diversified company than others like Ilford, Kodak, etc. They can afford to, when it's smart, shut down production and burn off excess inventory. They're interested in what's going on but they're not interested in losing money when economic situation turns against film. I think you're right. TBH I think the film division should be spun off into a separate company that only does that and therefore needs to concentrate only on film.

12-01-2021, 09:21 AM	#42
pres589 Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Wichita, KS Photos: Albums Posts: 4,529	A spin-off isn't really how Japanese corporations operate; they seem to prefer larger safety nets, and there's some synergies between the film/film chemicals side of the house and other areas like digital imaging, chemicals, etc. I'd rather see it sold wholesale to some other company that wants to keep some of the film and film chemicals available if Fuji were to sunset those aspects. I just don't know who would be able to take that on. Ilford? Tentenal? ORWO? Who would be the best group to put Superia 1600 back into production?

12-01-2021, 10:40 AM	#43
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Today...In stock at B&H in 35mm: Pro Image 100 five-pack Portra 800, 36xp Ektar 100, 36xp Gold 200, 36xp Cinestill 50 Daylight, 36xp LomoChrome Metropolis 100-400, 36xp Professional Ektachrome E100, 36xp Psych Blues 400 #3, 24xp Psych Blues 400 #5, 24xp LomoChrome Purple 100-400, 36xp Bubblegum 200, 36xp Psych Blues 400 #4, 24xp ...3 1/2 more pages worth... It appears someone has access to a warehouse... Steve

12-01-2021, 02:52 PM	#44
ChristianRock Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: People's Republic of America Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 9,910	Originally posted by stevebrot Today...In stock at B&H in 35mm: Pro Image 100 five-pack Portra 800, 36xp Ektar 100, 36xp Gold 200, 36xp Cinestill 50 Daylight, 36xp LomoChrome Metropolis 100-400, 36xp Professional Ektachrome E100, 36xp Psych Blues 400 #3, 24xp Psych Blues 400 #5, 24xp LomoChrome Purple 100-400, 36xp Bubblegum 200, 36xp Psych Blues 400 #4, 24xp ...3 1/2 more pages worth... It appears someone has access to a warehouse... Steve But the prices being asked, even compared to a year ago, are outrageous. Back when I was actually shooting film, I was buying Ektar 100 for $5.99, Gold 200 was $2.99. That was 2014-15. Now it's $15.99 and $9.99. Just think about it - 10 bucks for Gold 200!! Earlier this year, ProImage 100 5-pack was $27.99. Now it's $41.99. It's not even a good film (IMHO)! To me, the film industry is basically dead, it priced itself out of the common people's reach. And that's when film is even available to start with...

12-01-2021, 03:06 PM	#45
pres589 Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Wichita, KS Photos: Albums Posts: 4,529	"...the film industry is basically dead..." I get the sentiment, but come on, hyperbole much? I agree that paying more than $4 a roll for Ultramax, and having to wait and see when seemingly common films are back on shelves, are not great things for film shooters. But I believe this will work itself out over the next year or so. And maybe I'm wrong and I'll find some other way to enjoy that style of shooting. Bulk loading, watching for deals on expired lots, maybe going to a different digital body / manual lens combination that 'feels' more like shooting film. Not getting excited about it.