[lotech]

Hi there,

I am buying one or two Pentax film SLR, and I will use them not simply for collection, there are few on my mind such as the KM, MX, K2 and the Spotmatic F, I can't make up my mind which to buy, or there are more choices I missed, I've 3 things to consider.

1. The shutter

I already got the KX, Super A, Fujica ST605 and a Praktica MTL 5, the latter two are special for screw mount lenses, but both has some problem need to be fixed, that's why I want a Spotmatic. Beside the Super A and Praktica the rest are using cloth curtain. I was considering the MX since it is relatively modern design and compact, but it has a cloth curtain, on the other hand the older (?) K2 has metallic shutter, but the electronics would not work properly after such a long time. I got couple Russian RF from the 70s with broken curtain, I know they can not compare with the Japanese/German design and quality control, but that worried me in using old camera with cloth curtain shutter.

2. The viewfinder

When comparing the KX with my Super A I found the KX is about 2 stop dimmer in the viewfinder, where the Super A is close to the current K3 digital, it is quite hard to focus on my KX with wide angle lens below f2.8, such as the Pentacon 30mm/f3.5 when use in indoor, but it is fine on the Super A, so the KX was a disappointment to me, especially I will use vintage slow lenses, I don't know what the KM looks like.

3. Battery type

This is less important to me, but it would be best if the camera takes the standard LR44 type, otherwise I will get a hot shoe mount meter instead.

I should be satisfied with the Super A, but I don't enjoy using the tiny control dial and there is no backup mechanical shutter, I like the layout of the MX more, and I do not consider the K1000 coz I need a self timer. Btw I did have a LX before I join the digital camp but sold it, I will definitely get one back if it is cheap enough.

Please share your tips in picking old film camera !

[pres589]

I wanted an automatic exposure k-mount camera so I tried the Ricoh XR7 and some Chinons and like them both. XR7 seems just a bit nicer overall although my old CE-5 was quite nice to use as well. Problem with the CE-5 is the somewhat fragile top deck; I dropped my camera bag off of a dining table onto a carpeted floor and the camera inside was killed in the fall. CE-4S and badge engineered copies (like the Revue AC3) seem more rugged.


But when I go somewhere and I really want to be sure I won't have issues, I'm carrying either my XR7 or my MX. Usually the XR7. I've not had any trouble with the Ricoh save for one evening early in my time with it when the shutter was not very interested in firing. I don't know what that was about and it's not been repeated in the few years since that I've owned the camera. Only other issue was the plastic film rewind knob cracking and falling apart so I replaced it with a modified knob from a Petri of some sort.

[lotech]

I wanted an automatic exposure k-mount camera so I tried the Ricoh XR7 and some Chinons and like them both. XR7 seems just a bit nicer overall although my old CE-5 was quite nice to use as well. Problem with the CE-5 is the somewhat fragile top deck; I dropped my camera bag off of a dining table onto a carpeted floor and the camera inside was killed in the fall. CE-4S and badge engineered copies (like the Revue AC3) seem more rugged.


But when I go somewhere and I really want to be sure I won't have issues, I'm carrying either my XR7 or my MX. Usually the XR7. I've not had any trouble with the Ricoh save for one evening early in my time with it when the shutter was not very interested in firing. I don't know what that was about and it's not been repeated in the few years since that I've owned the camera. Only other issue was the plastic film rewind knob cracking and falling apart so I replaced it with a modified knob from a Petri of some sort.

Could you give some detail about the MX, what you like and don't like about it ?

[pentaxus]

A cloth curtain is not a bad thing. Good cloth material lasts a long time. The metal bladed shutters have rivets that wear out.

[lotech]

A cloth curtain is not a bad thing. Good cloth material lasts a long time. The metal bladed shutters have rivets that wear out.

Right ! and I got a Minolta XM before I switch to Pentax, it has a Titanium shutter but built like cloth curtain, a classic !

[jbinpg]

The MX needs no battery, you just need to go Sunny 16 without it, And it has a huge viewfinder. My MX had been sitting on the shelf for a long time but I picked it up yesterday and slapped myself for not doing so sooner. I have had mine since 1978 and there is nothing wrong with its cloth shutter.

[lotech]

The MX needs no battery, you just need to go Sunny 16 without it, And it has a huge viewfinder. My MX had been sitting on the shelf for a long time but I picked it up yesterday and slapped myself for not doing so sooner. I have had mine since 1978 and there is nothing wrong with its cloth shutter.

What battery for the meter ? what about the finder, is it comparable to modern models ?

[womble]

What battery for the meter ? what about the finder, is it comparable to modern models ?

Battery is two standard LR44s. The finder is a thing of beauty. Downsides (to some) are (a) lack of mirror lock-up (although there is the "flick the shutter button" trick), (b) the "traffic light LED system for measuring exposure and (c) a stiff shutter speed dial. None of these things have ever bothered me, I've had four (one stolen, one given away, two in use). None have had problems with the shutter curtain. Apart from the one which was stolen a long time ago, I sent all three for a CLA although the only thing that they desperately needed was the foam replacing. My standard travel set-up is my LX for colour film and my MX for BW.

[Benz3ne]

I've found the finder on both my MX's to be bright and large. Makes for easy focusing.
It's 2x LR44 for the meter.

[lotech]

Battery is two standard LR44s. The finder is a thing of beauty. Downsides (to some) are (a) lack of mirror lock-up (although there is the "flick the shutter button" trick), (b) the "traffic light LED system for measuring exposure and (c) a stiff shutter speed dial. None of these things have ever bothered me, I've had four (one stolen, one given away, two in use). None have had problems with the shutter curtain. Apart from the one which was stolen a long time ago, I sent all three for a CLA although the only thing that they desperately needed was the foam replacing. My standard travel set-up is my LX for colour film and my MX for BW.

Thanks for that, those downsides doesn't bother me much and expected for an old camera, most importantly is the bright finder and easy battery replacement, save me money for a meter.

[andrewd]

The MX is a must have camera for a Pentax enthusiast IMO. The viewfinder is superb, even if the eye relief is a bit tight. It feels really solidly built compared to the other M series cameras. I would avoid the early models (serial number starting with 9 and metal film box reminder frame) since these have a different film advance mechanism that is not as smooth as the later models.

I agree with your comments about the KX viewfinder. I also find the meter quite hard to read because the black meter needle is in the picture frame. I only like a needle display if the needle is in its own window outside the frame (for example the Canon F1).

[lotech]

The MX is a must have camera for a Pentax enthusiast IMO. The viewfinder is superb, even if the eye relief is a bit tight. It feels really solidly built compared to the other M series cameras. I would avoid the early models (serial number starting with 9 and metal film box reminder frame) since these have a different film advance mechanism that is not as smooth as the later models.

I agree with your comments about the KX viewfinder. I also find the meter quite hard to read because the black meter needle is in the picture frame. I only like a needle display if the needle is in its own window outside the frame (for example the Canon F1).

I believe all K models use the same dim finder I can safely Skip !

[Lord Lucan]

Downsides (to some) are .... (b) the "traffic light LED system for measuring exposure ....

I found the "traffic light" system brilliant. In case other readers get the wrong idea, this was not the dumb over-simple "traffic light" system used eg in the Pentax MV. The MV was a aperture priority auto-only* camera with a red, yellow and green LED in the finder (and nothing else). Green meant it was OK to take a picture, yellow meant under exposed (so open the lens aperture) and red meant over-exposed (so close the aperture). That is what is usually meant by a traffic light system, and certain other brand entry level SLRs of the time also used it. The viewfinder did not tell you what the shutter speed was, although to see the aperture setting you could always take it down from your eye and look at the lens.

On the other hand the manual-only MX showed both your set shutter speed and aperture in the viewfinder all the time. The "traffic lights" were a vertical row of five LEDs (red-yellow-green-yellow-red) which were simply the solid-state equivalent of a meter needle in something like the K1000, 6x7, or innumerable other metered-manual cameras of the 1970s. A yellow up or down meant you had half a stop over or under exposed, and a red meant one or more stops ditto. Green meant correct exposure of course.

It was the same in principle to the LX viefinder in manual mode, except that the LX had about 15 LEDs in a row (the entire shutter speed range) instead of just 5. Both the LX and MX systems were advanced, and I think the MX system was almost like a prototype for the LX.


* It did also have an emergency mechanical 1/100 speed an Bulb.

[lotech]

I found the "traffic light" system brilliant. In case other readers get the wrong idea, this was not the dumb over-simple "traffic light" system used eg in the Pentax MV. The MV was a aperture priority auto-only* camera with a red, yellow and green LED in the finder (and nothing else). Green meant it was OK to take a picture, yellow meant under exposed (so open the lens aperture) and red meant over-exposed (so close the aperture). That is what is usually meant by a traffic light system, and certain other brand entry level SLRs of the time also used it. The viewfinder did not tell you what the shutter speed was, although to see the aperture setting you could always take it down from your eye and look at the lens.

On the other hand the manual-only MX showed both your set shutter speed and aperture in the viewfinder all the time. The "traffic lights" were a vertical row of five LEDs (red-yellow-green-yellow-red) which were simply the solid-state equivalent of a meter needle in something like the K1000, 6x7, or innumerable other metered-manual cameras of the 1970s. A yellow up or down meant you had half a stop over or under exposed, and a red meant one or more stops ditto. Green meant correct exposure of course.

It was the same in principle to the LX viefinder in manual mode, except that the LX had about 15 LEDs in a row (the entire shutter speed range) instead of just 5. Both the LX and MX systems were advanced, and I think the MX system was almost like a prototype for the LX.


* It did also have an emergency mechanical 1/100 speed an Bulb.

I wouldn't mind any type of traffic light metering system, as long as it is easy to tell which way to turn to correct the exposure, so now I need to learn to love cloth curtain, and in fact none of my old film SLR camera with cloth curtain shutter failed on me !

[womble]

I wouldn't mind any type of traffic light metering system, as long as it is easy to tell which way to turn to correct the exposure, so now I need to learn to love cloth curtain, and in fact none of my old film SLR camera with cloth curtain shutter failed on me !

Lower red, 1 or more stops under, lower yellow half stop under, and so on. It is, as Lord Lucan said, essentially an illuminated version of needle metering (below horizontal under exposed, above horizontal over...). It is very intuitive and a system I get on with very well. Familiarity helps, of course.