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12-24-2021, 02:06 AM   #16
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Do you have the Nocta covered? Ebay seller samuraijpn had a great set of photos which I could send you but you would need to get their permission to use them.

12-24-2021, 11:39 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by c.a.m Quote
I found the following references and an image. I don't know whether the image is an authentic picture of the Spot-Matic prototype.


Asahi Optical Historical Club (Italy): (click on the image to enlarge) AOHC - Asahi Optical Historical Club: Catalog[tipologia]=13

Reference to a "Spotmatic" preview in the January 1961 issue of Popular Photography: Classic Cameras - Asahi Pentax Spotmatic - 1964

- Craig
That picture is so cool.

I remember my transition to Pentax SLRs.

I had been using a handheld GE selenium meter and an Argus guesstimate focus camera. When I got my SP500 in 1970? the world of taking photos changed.

I always had to use a tripod and tape measure even with fast shutter speeds. Afterwards I could focus thru the lens.

I would always take three handheld light meter then average them. Afterwards, pick the shutter speed then turn the aperture dial.

I would always need to carry a big wooden tripod, tape measure, light meter, and the camera. Afterwards just the camera and sometimes a small beanbag.
12-25-2021, 06:07 AM   #18
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It is interesting that the prototype shown with spot meter made it to production with averaging exposure meter.

I wonder why? Was it production cost, difficulty of operation, lack of good exposures by the average user, or ???

In retrospect perhaps they made the wiser choice. The Spotmatic series was very successful and AOCo. sold millions of copies.

OTOH the movable arm-mounted meter cells on Leica M5 and Leica CL models turned out to be quite trouble-prone,
and a true spot meter used by an untrained operator might yield more improperly exposed photos than no meter at all.

Chris

Last edited by ChrisPlatt; 12-25-2021 at 12:32 PM.
12-27-2021, 06:34 AM - 2 Likes   #19
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There were a few cool prototypes out there, for sure. That PhotoKina in Cologne in 1960 must have been a great show of all sorts of new inventions.

Another prototype that has not been mentioned, is the "Pentax Memorica".

I would very much recommend every collector to get a copy of Gerjan van Oostens book "The definitive Asahi Pentax collectors guide".It covers all the screwmount bodies, the lenses, and a large array of accessories as well as showcases these prototypes. The book is updated from its previous version with a lot of new information, so it is a must

---------- Post added 12-27-2021 at 02:35 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by ChrisPlatt Quote
It is interesting that the prototype shown with spot meter made it to production with averaging exposure meter.

I wonder why? Was it production cost, difficulty of operation, lack of good exposures by the average user, or ???

In retrospect perhaps they made the wiser choice. The Spotmatic series was very successful and AOCo. sold millions of copies.

OTOH the movable arm-mounted meter cells on Leica M5 and Leica CL models turned out to be quite trouble-prone,
and a true spot meter used by an untrained operator might yield more improperly exposed photos than no meter at all.

Chris
The Spot-Matic also had the meter on a movable arm. Guess it was to expensive and to unreliable.

12-27-2021, 11:38 AM - 1 Like   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by Baard-Einar Quote
Another prototype that has not been mentioned, is the "Pentax Memorica".
I think the Memorica was displayed in the 1966 Photokina, along with the Metalica II.
Awesome and interesting kit - I definitely need to get that book too!
12-29-2021, 01:34 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by wkraus Quote
Metalica: link
Interesting. That suggests the Metalica was the forerunner of the ES, obviously without the bayonet mount but the rest makes sense. I have fond memories of the ES (and I still have my ESII).
01-02-2022, 07:18 PM - 1 Like   #22
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From the internal diagrams I've seen, the Spot-Matic used a CdS cell mounted on a moving arm that would swing out to the center of the focusing screen to meter that area. It would block the view in that area, so would swing back out of the way for focusing. Accurate spot meter, but would interfere with a clear view in the VF. They were wise to wait for the redesign.
Interestingly, Leica later used a CdS cell on a swinging arm in their early 1970s M5 and CL rangefinder cameras. The arm would swing out in front of the shutter curtains when winding film so it could meter a spot dead center in the frame. On the M5, the arm would swing back out of the frame as you pressed the shutter - press slowly it would move slowly, etc. That avoided a harsh snap-back of the cell. On the CL (made for them by Minolta), the arm would snap back just before the shutter tripped. I have both these cameras, and love the spot meters.

01-03-2022, 11:25 AM   #23
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There was a 10yrs difference between those cameras but a eon in technology advances between them
Electronics miniaturization happened in between, which allowed for smaller and more reliable electronics at a better price (aka cheaper)

The spot meter in SPotmatic (1960-62) was not economically feasible at the time; but in the CL it worked like a charm.
Among other factors the Leicas don;t have amirror, so the arm doesn't block the view and can be smaller and move shorter distances



QuoteOriginally posted by TomB_tx Quote
From the internal diagrams I've seen, the Spot-Matic used a CdS cell mounted on a moving arm that would swing out to the center of the focusing screen to meter that area. It would block the view in that area, so would swing back out of the way for focusing. Accurate spot meter, but would interfere with a clear view in the VF. They were wise to wait for the redesign.
Interestingly, Leica later used a CdS cell on a swinging arm in their early 1970s M5 and CL rangefinder cameras. The arm would swing out in front of the shutter curtains when winding film so it could meter a spot dead center in the frame. On the M5, the arm would swing back out of the frame as you pressed the shutter - press slowly it would move slowly, etc. That avoided a harsh snap-back of the cell. On the CL (made for them by Minolta), the arm would snap back just before the shutter tripped. I have both these cameras, and love the spot meters.
01-03-2022, 12:59 PM - 1 Like   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChrisPlatt Quote
It is interesting that the prototype shown with spot meter made it to production with averaging exposure meter.I wonder why? Was it production cost, difficulty of operation, lack of good exposures by the average user, or ???
As well as possible reliability issues, it was thought that the average user would not be able to cope with spot metering. In one of Ansel Adams books he refers to an Olympus camera (OM-4?) that had spot metering (at least as an option) and grumbles that the manual did not explain how it should be used. Of course, you really need to understand Adams' own zone system to use spot metering fully.

QuoteOriginally posted by FozzFoster Quote
entirely agree - never hear about this model before today!
Three new cameras, the S3, the Spotmatic prototype (with actiual spot metering), and the one-off Metalica, were all first shown at the 1960 Photokina. The latter two had bayonet mounts, and it would be interesting to know what this mount was. An early K-mount perhaps? Or did they rip off a Nikon F mount just to put the prototypes together? Anyway Pentax then went into S3 production and the ideas in the other two prototypes were shelved for many (too many) years. The Metalica was particularly advanced - apart from having that silly (outdated even then) selenium meter, which knocked it out of court. The one-off Metalica II was shown in 1966 and was like a Spotmatic but with a metal shutter, bayonet mount, and an auto TTL exposure system (using a CdS photocell), features which would not be seen in production together until the K2 of 1975.

I recommend obtaining a copy of Danilo Cecchi's book "Asahi Pentax and Pentax SLR 35mm Cameras 1952-1989". That is where I got the above info.

Last edited by Lord Lucan; 01-03-2022 at 01:12 PM.
01-04-2022, 08:23 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lord Lucan Quote
The latter two had bayonet mounts, and it would be interesting to know what this mount was. An early K-mount perhaps?
Probably closer to the bayonet mount Pentax used on the first 1969 6x7 camera. (Smaller of course)

Phil.
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