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12-29-2021, 08:36 AM   #1
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Pentax Film Scanning recommendations.

Anyone want to share their film scanning setups and give recommendations on copy stands? I got a Pentax F 100 Macro and I was planning on using to scan negatives with my K-1. I am not very experienced in macro photography. I realize the minimum focus distance is 31 cm for the F 100 macro, can I reduce that with tube extensions? Any recommendations on copy stands?

12-29-2021, 08:50 AM - 1 Like   #2
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Take a read through this ebook, it's a great source of macro info:

The Pentax Macro eBook - Articles and Tips | PentaxForums.com

Phil.
12-29-2021, 09:05 AM - 1 Like   #3
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I find Negative Supply in California to be a great source for information and equipment for film scanning from 35 mm to 4 x 5 inches.
12-29-2021, 09:10 AM - 2 Likes   #4
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This may be of no use to you but I'll share it for reference. I can post more pictures if it's of interest.

I didn't go down the copy stand route as I was looking for something a little quicker to use so I built my own cheap copier rig and used my defunct film scanner holders for the negs and slides. You can get film scanner holders 2nd hand off Ebay if you need them. The principal is the same as a copy stand though but the film holder mount makes it very quick to shoot four negs/slides. I incorporated a macro rail for moving the camera to the right position and adjusting the framing, as opposed to moving the camera up and down the copy stand rail. The light was just a video light from Amazon, it's just about the right colour temperature for colour film. My lens was the DFA100wr which has a similar minimum focus but that was plenty good enough. I've used this for b&w and colour film and slides. Various suggestion were made to me about how to accomplish this and what light sources to use from flash to LED panels. I opted for this as the most flexible but it isn't necessarily the most accurate (it depends on your woodwork skills!), however my intention was always to get the better shots scanned properly and this was just to allow me to quickly digitise things.

In terms of quality, it isn't a patch on a dedicated film scanner, I can't comment on the flatbed alternatives as I've never used one but it does work and is probably good for 8x6/10x8 prints max. Your K1 might do a little better than my k5/KP.




Last edited by 3by2; 12-29-2021 at 09:19 AM.
12-29-2021, 09:11 AM - 2 Likes   #5
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You may find this thread useful.
Creating a DSLR-based film negative digitising rig - PentaxForums.com

---------- Post added 12-29-21 at 08:16 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Gethyn Quote
I find Negative Supply in California to be a great source for information and equipment for film scanning from 35 mm to 4 x 5 inches.
I checked it right now. Indeed a lot of good stuff, but extremely expensive.
12-29-2021, 09:56 AM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by y0chang Quote
I got a Pentax F 100 Macro and I was planning on using to scan negatives with my K-1. I am not very experienced in macro photography. I realize the minimum focus distance is 31 cm for the F 100 macro, can I reduce that with tube extensions?
I wouldn't worry about that 31 cm minimum focus distance (from the specs in the lens review section, I suspect?). What counts is that the lens is claimed to do 1-to-1 -- that means a normal, old-fashioned full-frame 35mm slide or negative frame would fill the frame of your K-1 (also a "full frame" camera) with the 100mm macro. If you are trying to "scan" anything larger, you will either have to back off in order to get it to fit in the K-1 frame or scan it in pieces. So, unless you are trying to scan something smaller than a normal 35mm neg/slide, you don't need to worry about getting in any closer.

The resolution of your K-1 with the macro is almost certainly better than whatever you are trying to scan. That's been my experience when trying to digitize my old slides with my K-1.
12-29-2021, 10:04 AM - 3 Likes   #7
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Rather than re-write what I've already posted, here's a fairly recent thread of mine on this very subject:

Creating a DSLR-based film negative digitising rig - PentaxForums.com

If you have any questions, feel free to PM me... or I'm happy to answer them in the above thread if you prefer

QuoteOriginally posted by jumbleview Quote
You may find this thread useful.
Ah, you beat me to it!


Last edited by BigMackCam; 12-29-2021 at 10:12 AM.
12-29-2021, 10:26 AM - 4 Likes   #8
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If you are only going to digitize 35mm film - and you have a fullframe DSLR, then consider the Auto Bellows K and Slide Copier K as they were made for fullframe.



I will have to see if the 100mm is suitable for this setup but certainly a 50mm macro works perfectly well.

Once setup, digitizing is very quick and can take only seconds per frame as all movements/focusing are minimized and most definitely faster then scanning.
Because of film's latitude, you may need to do an over and under exposure pass and merge in post.

For true b&w film postwork is relatively easy and will be as tedious as scanning as you will have to manually remove dust and scratches as ICE does not work with these types of films.

For color slides, post work is still relatively simple except now dust and scratch removal may become a factor as ICE is usually available in scanners.
In this example, I used the fullframe Nikon D800 with my Nikon version Autobellows and slide holder to digitize a frame of Kodachrome - a very dusty embedded into the frame of film.



It only takes a few seconds to digitize but it would take far longer for me to manually clean it up in post that the Coolscan's ICE does perfectly in about 2 minutes.

For color negatives, the post work may surpass the scanning time. Not only is dust and scratch removal a factor but color inversion is far more complicated and applied on a per frame basis. There are numerous workflows - manual and third party tools, outlined everywhere online and youtube. In this example, I tried it myself on a perfectly dusty and thoroughly scratched frame of Kodak 160VC.



Manually cleaning up the dust and scratches alone would take far longer then the 2 minutes it takes the Coolscan 9000 to render perfectly. Manually doing the color inversion is not a straightforward manner and varies frame to frame. There are third party tools that can help in this task but from all that I reviewed, editing done on one frame may not necessarilly be applied across all the frames of the roll. In this example, even though I have the scan - as well as an optical enlargement for reference, I still could not match it. Needless to say I will need to practice more but I can't imagine what I would have come up with if I didn't have the reference.

BTW, I have both 50mm and 100mm f4 macro lenses and they are absolutely pin sharp. I bought my 50mm macro locally super chaep - along with a few other Pentax items, and noticed how sharp the results were and wondered just how much detail can it resolve. So I setup a 4 X 4 arrangement of 12233 resolution charts and shot it using Kodak Techpan @ISO25 under ideal conditions using the 50mm f4 macro and got these results digitizing with my Pentax K20D 14.6MP 4672 X 3104, Coolscan 4000dpi 5700 X 3780 and Nikon D800 36MP 7360 X 4912.



The 100% crops from each of the devices are to the left starting at the bottom of the full frame of 4 X 4 res charts, then K20D, Coolscan 4000dpi then D800 at top. You'll notice that even though the D800 applies more pixels then the 4000dpi scan, it looks like the Coolscan resolves a tad more. To the right, I optically magnified the center area about 4.5X and you can see actual detail not resolved by the devices I used. After this test I know that even a super cheap used SMC Pentax-M 50mm F4 macro lens will not be the limiting factor in achieving detail! BTW, I also tested my 100mm macro and it is equal to the task!
12-29-2021, 10:34 AM - 1 Like   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by LesDMess Quote

It only takes a few seconds to digitize but it would take far longer for me to manually clean it up in post that the Coolscan's ICE does perfectly in about 2 minutes.

For color negatives, the post work may surpass the scanning time.
Um, yeah. "may surpass", huh. As someone who's had to scan all of his slides and transparencies from the late '70's through the mid aughts, the post processing is just such a treat! Every time I think about getting back into film this fact stops me. The "scan" is the easy bit by miles.


Good luck, anyway.
12-29-2021, 10:54 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by LesDMess Quote
For color negatives, the post work may surpass the scanning time. Not only is dust and scratch removal a factor but color inversion is far more complicated and applied on a per frame basis. There are numerous workflows - manual and third party tools, outlined everywhere online and youtube
QuoteOriginally posted by texandrews Quote
Um, yeah. "may surpass", huh. As someone who's had to scan all of his slides and transparencies from the late '70's through the mid aughts, the post processing is just such a treat! Every time I think about getting back into film this fact stops me. The "scan" is the easy bit by miles.
I don't know whether either of you have tried Negative Lab Pro plug-in for Lightroom? It's currently on v2.3, and is a fantastic tool. Most negatives require very little input to get a "lab quality" scan, at least in terms of colour, tone curve, etc., and having fine-tuned the settings for one frame on a roll, these can be copied to the others. I've only scanned a few colour negative films thus far, but the results have been superb.

Of course, dust removal remains a potential problem with this approach. I've tried to minimise this at the outset by wiping down my digitising areas carefully before scanning, then using a bulb blower to gently blow dust of both sides of my negative strips and film holder before inserting one into the other. Still, on a couple of negatives, I had a few spots of dust and/or fibers - but they were easy enough to remove with Lightroom's spot removal tool....
12-29-2021, 11:11 AM   #11
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I already use a Nikon Coolscan V for my 35mm negatives and its amazing. I wanted to improve from my Epson V600 for 120 and I may get into larger formats. I shoot black and white in 120 so dust removal is not as much of an issue, since I can't use ICE on black and white. The macro resource is very useful thanks for the link. I already own negative lab pro so I was planning on using it. 120 scanners are not cheap so I was looking into the option for faster scanning of 120. I develop my own film so I generally keep my negatives quite clean.
12-29-2021, 11:15 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
I don't know whether either of you have tried Negative Lab Pro plug-in for Lightroom? It's currently on v2.3, and is a fantastic tool. Most negatives require very little input to get a "lab quality" scan, at least in terms of colour, tone curve, etc., and having fine-tuned the settings for one frame on a roll, these can be copied to the others. I've only scanned a few colour negative films thus far, but the results have been superb.

Of course, dust removal remains a potential problem with this approach. I've tried to minimise this at the outset by wiping down my digitising areas carefully before scanning, then using a bulb blower to gently blow dust of both sides of my negative strips and film holder before inserting one into the other. Still, on a couple of negatives, I had a few spots of dust and/or fibers - but they were easy enough to remove with Lightroom's spot removal tool....
I have to admit I have only done a handful of color negative inversion - all manual. In my case I am still going to continue using my Coolscans but I can't imagine what the post work would be like without a good reference.

Do you have examples to show how your results compare to "lab quality" scan?
12-29-2021, 11:23 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by LesDMess Quote
I have to admit I have only done a handful of color negative inversion - all manual. In my case I am still going to continue using my Coolscans but I can't imagine what the post work would be like without a good reference.

Do you have examples to show how your results compare to "lab quality" scan?
The only colour negatives I've done so far are family snaps which I wouldn't be happy posting online... but, there's a developed film I'm looking for in my storage boxes from years back, with photos taken at Mercedes World in West Byfleet. I've posted some of the lab-supplied files here on the forums before, so I know I still have the negatives and the DVD scans somewhere. As soon as I can locate them, I'll digitise them, convert them to positives using Negative Lab Pro, and post the results here, with the lab scans alongside for comparison... but you'll need to cut me a little slack until I find them

Re the Coolscan, if I had access to one of those, I'd use it too
12-29-2021, 11:31 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
The only colour negatives I've done so far are family snaps which I wouldn't be happy posting online... but, there's a developed film I'm looking for in my storage boxes from years back, with photos taken at Mercedes World in West Byfleet. I've posted some of the lab-supplied files here on the forums before, so I know I still have the negatives and the DVD scans somewhere. As soon as I can locate them, I'll digitise them, convert them to positives using Negative Lab Pro, and post the results here... but you'll need to cut me a little slack until I find them
No worries as I try to keep tabs into these alternative methods. There are many workflows outlined on youtube.

BTW, in another forum is someone who does this for a living - commercially, so I know with the right setup and workflow this is a viable alternative - Adrian Bacon setup. He states, "I scan anywhere's from a couple hundred to a couple thousand plus rolls a month with this setup" so obviously his post work is optimal enough that he doesn't charge a hundred bucks a frame which I would have to given how slow I am at this!

I've been meaning to send him some of my own just to compare but I wouldn't want to possibly affect someone's livelihood.

Last edited by LesDMess; 12-29-2021 at 11:38 AM.
12-29-2021, 11:32 AM - 2 Likes   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by y0chang Quote
Anyone want to share their film scanning setups and give recommendations on copy stands? I got a Pentax F 100 Macro and I was planning on using to scan negatives with my K-1. I am not very experienced in macro photography. I realize the minimum focus distance is 31 cm for the F 100 macro, can I reduce that with tube extensions? Any recommendations on copy stands?
For a quick and dirty solution you could do something like my DIY one that I posted in a thread yesterday here: Tried my hand at home development - PentaxForums.com. However if you're planning to do a lot of film I'd definitely look at a setup like BigMackCam's.

It is NOT a good solution for high quality results since it doesn't really hold the negative very flat and is really fiddly if you're doing more than a few photos, but all you need is a suitable box, scissors, some paper, a tripod, and a light source (i.e. it is cheap and only took 10 minutes to make). It could easily be improved by user a stiffer material and something heavier than lens caps and markers to flatten the film, however aligning the camera is a bit cumbersome. I'm only doing black and white currently, so not too concerned about the quality of the light source.

I have yet to try it in a darkened room, but I suspect that will improve my results even more compared to using it by a bright window like I was doing. I probably wouldn't recommend it in your case, but figured I'd post anyway in case anyone else who wants to shoot a roll or two of film as cheaply as possible occasionally like me is reading this thread.

A couple additional photos of the box (with some small improvements made since yesterday.
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