[Alex645]

Next year, for the first time since 2007, I will have more B&W film photo students than digital photography students in my high school classes.
As used 35mm SLRs become harder to acquire and more expensive, I wish one of the 2,668 billionaires in the world would have a pet project to revive one model of a film SLR.

I think important attributes include an entry level price and compatible with legacy lenses. Manual focus would keep the cost down but auto focus could be enticing for DSLR owners wanting to try (or return to) film.

Top of my wish list would be any of these models in this order:
a) Pentax KX
b) Nikon FM2n or F100 for AF
c) Canon AE-1 Program or EOS Rebel Ti for AF
d) Minolta SRT-202 or X700

Realistically it would be a more innovative camera company like Fujifilm with a stake in film. At one time, they had the license to use the F mount on their branded DSLRs.

What model would top your list and why? What model could actually succeed to be followed by some competitors?

[StiffLegged]

Top of my list would be the Pentax MX, a small and fully capable film SLR with the capabilities of the KX but that really compact body wrapped around a fabulous viewfinder. (yes, I've had one since forever)

But would it succeed? Nope. I hate to think what it would cost now and although film is enjoying a revival it's a really small niche within a shrinking niche. Sorry.


I hope you have a great class, film is where it all started for me!

[BigMackCam]

Great idea for a thread, Alex

Though I've never owned a K1000, I'd like a brand-new revival of that, I think. As the years progress, I yearn for simplicity in operation and (electro-)mechanical engineering... the less there is to go wrong, the better, and if that means I have to put a little more work in, or work more slowly and deliberately, I'm OK with that. Since beginning my journey with film photography late last year, I've been using a number of simple tunnel viewfinder cameras, and the entirely manual process is really appealing to me. Of course it's much more limiting than our modern DSLRs with all of their excellent features and automation... but it's a simpler, slower, calmer approach to photography. It feels purer to me.

So, I'd love a well-built K-mount film SLR camera with optionally-active TTL metering that allows me to set ISO, aperture and shutter speed, and use my K-mount and M42 film-era lenses... and I believe that's essentially a K1000

EDIT: I forgot to make it clear... within reason (i.e. if the cost wasn't greater than the DSLRs and MILCs we readily buy), I'd actually purchase one of these - eagerly and willlingly, if the build quality was pretty decent...

EDIT #2: Now I think about it... wasn't the K1000 the "classic" photography student film camera, way back when?

[Alex645]

Top of my list would be the Pentax MX, a small and fully capable film SLR with the capabilities of the KX but that really compact body wrapped around a fabulous viewfinder. (yes, I've had one since forever)
But would it succeed? Nope. I hate to think what it would cost now and although film is enjoying a revival it's a really small niche within a shrinking niche. Sorry.
I hope you have a great class, film is where it all started for me!

Yes, the MX is an excellent candidate.
Yes, I have no doubt it would be like investing in horses instead of electric vehicles, but there is a niche market and as currently there is no competition, someone with the enough capital to take on losses as a tax write off....For sure we haven't seen typewriters return, but film is not dead and there is a digital generation longing for analog. Vinyl LPs have seen turntables return, albeit either very low end cheap stuff or very high end audiophile elite. I guess I shouldn't compare the simplicity of a turntable to an SLR, but it's fun hoping for a dream.

I have yet to have a film class that hasn't been "great", ever since digital has become the norm. With digital, I'll have a few classes where there are enthusiastic students pushing the envelope, but I also have a share of classes where there are only a couple sparks in class and the rest are dormant. I often wonder if it's me, the teacher, but I can have two sections and I am really running the same curriculum but the two groups for whatever reasons produce and interact at different levels.

With film, 90% of the students are completely engaged and take on both the art and science of photography. Knock on wood, I didn't just jinx my film classes next year!

[TwoUptons]

I don't think anyone could affordably do a proper mechanical revival at a price point anyone would be happy about.

I think the best way forward to get that old-school analog feel would be something like a cross between a P30T and a ZX-M (a Nikon FG and a N65, or whatever).

It would have to have some electronics in it so it could run the modern lenses. That also probably implies an electronically timed shutter.

It would need to be able to power the motor-driven manual focus of the new lenses, so it would also need the PZ-style power contacts, and Ricoh would probably cripple the mount so manual focus lenses would need green button metering.

Unlike the P30 it would need aperture priority and shutter priority on the body, and a way to change aperture on lenses that don't have controls.
Exposure compensation would have to be there and easy to use.

I'd suggest a spotmeter and simple averaging meter would be enough.

Manual wind and rewind.

And they would need to sell an update of the AF-160 flash, with a couple of auto settings and "program" since it won't have TTL.
Though it could be possible to intelligently change the flash output based on the focus distance of an autofocus lens (since that's in the data).
Minolta did that in the 1960s, IIRC...

Adding TTL and some other fancier things would be cool, but complicated... it would be neat if they put shutter and aperture in between frames for simple EXIF, for example...

And even at that, it's still probably an $800 camera at the very least... unless they can find someone to outsource it to... and I think it would need to be half that at most...

-Eric

[wadge22]

I hope it's not entirely a threadjack, but I'm curious as to why so many claim that nobody could affordably make a mechanical camera these days.
I can buy a Japan movement automatic watch for under $150, a Spanish made Weber carb for about $350, a US made grain mill for about the same, Chinese bicycle derailleurs from 20 bucks on up, and I won't even bring up firearms.
What's so different about a film camera, especially if we were willing to allow for global manufacturing and/or "student grade" quality?

[ismaelg]

Hello,

More than new cameras I want to see parts available again to service the millions out there.
Things like K1000 light meters, prisms, battery compartments and battery caps.
Factory service available again for LX, 67 and 645... Please don't wake me up...

Thanks,
Ismael

[Denver]

My request for a revival of a Pentax film camera would be the Pentax SuperProgram. All needed modes, KA lenses work on digital cameras minus the autofocus. Good size in hand with TTL flash.

[ChrisPlatt]

Manual focus, manual exposure, manual film transport - and affordable (i.e. NOT Leica prices).
No particular brand/model. I would not even suggest which lens mount it should have.

I have no doubt Cosina could do this, if deemed profitable.
I wonder if Kobayashi-san kept any of the old Bessa tooling?

Chris

[TwoUptons]

I hope it's not entirely a threadjack, but I'm curious as to why so many claim that nobody could affordably make a mechanical camera these days.
I can buy a Japan movement automatic watch for under $150, a Spanish made Weber carb for about $350, a US made grain mill for about the same, Chinese bicycle derailleurs from 20 bucks on up, and I won't even bring up firearms.
What's so different about a film camera, especially if we were willing to allow for global manufacturing and/or "student grade" quality?

Complexity and volume.

How many millions of K1000s amortized Pentax’s investment?

In today’s market you’d probably be looking to sell a couple thousand a year…

And the expertise that used to exist is vanishing rapidly… as is the supplier base… a lot of the design and such would have to be relearned and new sources for things like shutters…

And a Super Program would be great if it had a way to do aperture priority with a lens that lacks an aperture ring. And it won’t work normally with several of the newest lenses… like the 50mm or the 85…

-Eric

[BigMackCam]

And a Super Program would be great if it had a way to do aperture priority with a lens that lacks an aperture ring. And it won’t work normally with several of the newest lenses… like the 50mm or the 85…

I don't care if my revival K1000 works with the latest lenses. I'd just like a new film camera that works with all the manual glass still out there

[Sam_I_am]

Just an idea to throw out there. What if the focus was put on recommending a few different cameras and emphasizing purchasing one from a reputable shop, such as B&H, that has been completely gone through. Also emphasize NOT to buy one off of ebay to try and save money. Then, if the demand for high quality serviced used ones are on the rise, send the info to a few different manufacturers that still might have all their tooling left, and see if at least parts might be reproduced. If they in turn then follow the interest in film, it might then be able to push them towards reproducing ONE, as a start, maybe even recommending outsourcing to help keep the cost down.

This might be the best way to actually make it more than just a pipe dream.

[RobA_Oz]

If an SLR is the aim, then the maker of choice will be fairly clear in future, as nobody else will be making roof pentaprisms to put in a camera. Otherwise, it might be a lucrative sideline for Ricoh, and provide some economies of scale for their DSLRs.

That aside, the most complex precision-manufactured part of the SLR is the focal plane shutter mechanism, and those are already being made by or for (almost) every camera still on the market, at least for MFT sensors and above.

Gear trains for film advance etc are easily made using EDM (Electrical Discharge Machining) controlled from CAD systems. Making bodies could be more difficult, but only if an existing DSLR body could not be readily adapted. Otherwise, it would be a return to pressed sheet metal, again using EDM to form the blanks, with press tooling being the only dedicated components needed.

If a sophisticated, fully-automated SLR was required, perhaps the electronic control systems from a DSLR could be adapted. If full automation was not the aim, old circuit designs could be updated with available discrete components. Even controls such as those on the ES or ESII might require only simple IC solutions to emulate (or improve).

For small-run manufacture, assembly would presumably be by hand, so again, an existing maker with a suitably-skilled workforce would be the preferred option.

Without detailed costing, I doubt, though, that the economics of the entire process (including design and development) would allow it be much cheaper than the low-end DSLR or EV camera, but I don’t believe it’s a matter of manufacturing complexity that’s the barrier.

[ProfessorBuzz]

Hello,

More than new cameras I want to see parts available again to service the millions out there.
Things like K1000 light meters, prisms, battery compartments and battery caps.
Factory service available again for LX, 67 and 645... Please don't wake me up...

Thanks,
Ismael

I'd love to see that... weird that we're having the same dream.
Even if they did an annual "tell us what parts you need" and we're going to do 1 production run this year.
Service for the LX, 67II, and all the medium format lenses - including simple cleaning/lube/align.
Plus I wish they'd do HD versions of more the 645Z FA lenses.

[jumbleview]

Instead of just reviving old SLRs I would rather see some new design which merges old mechanical principles and modern electronics. What I would see is the camera with next set of attributes:
Mechanical manual film advance (I do not need electrical auto advance: each film frame will be better valued that way).
Optical viewfinder, which shows digital exposure information info in the way modern DSLR incorporates it.
Manual focus but with visual focus confirmation.
Modern exposure control (with ability to set aperture in case lens does not have an aperture ring).

P.S. Obviously it would be nice to see versions with m42 or K mount.