[niels hansen]

The more simple- the better. I prefer SLRs that works without a battery, I dont need built in exposure meters, the Sunny 16 rule is good and many handheld exposure meters are exellent. A great aspect of the manual SLR is the reliability of focusing. If the camera is well adjusted the focus confirmation works for any lens. You dont have to rely on more ore less precise AF. Pictures out of focus is a photographer fault with manual SLRs. Thats not always the case with DSLRs. PF is full of focusing issues.
Concerning costs:I The minimal costs for a manual equipment compared to a digital allows you to buy lots of films etc. We still have to see if DSLRs have the same durability as SLRs. I doubt.
I am only talking about all metal or almost all metal cameras

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Last edited by niels hansen; 05-09-2022 at 09:04 PM. Reason: addition

[Lord Lucan]

I own the KM and barely know the differences compared to the K1000. I though it was just the dof preview and the timer. Not very important features imho but people have different requirements I guess.

For completeness, the other KM features omitted to make the K1000 were the FP flash connector (out of date by then anyway) and the disc on the rewind hub by which you could set a film type reminder. Obviously the KM tooling and production line in the factory only needed slight changes to make K1000s from some point in 1976, and it would have been a Spotmatic line before that*. Pentax must still have had a stock of KMs for a while because I have seen a contemporary advert with the KM and K1000 shown alongside each other. The K1000 was not just made for art students, it was also a popular "family" camera, most owners of which probably would not know what a FoV preview was but could well miss the self-timer for family group shots. I worked with a family guy who owned a K1000 and he said he had been taken aback when he first discovered there was no self-timer. That didn't stop their popularity though.

Both the KM and K1000 are good, robust, all- metal, mechanical cameras; spartan if you like that, and not untypical of their time - a time when people expected cameras not only to last a lifetime but to be a heirloom too. My only beef with the K1000 is the cult that seems to have sprung up around it, with the consequence of silly prices being asked.

I have just checked the KM and K1000 reviews on PF and was amused to read this about the KM :

I just don't really feel like the KM has a reason to exist in the K lineup. The K2 and KX I get, totally, and the K1000 as well. But adding the fourth is kind of like having three thoroughbreds and, for fun, then getting a musk ox.

This reviewer seems to be unaware that it was the K1000 that was added to the line-up, not the KM, in fact it was a re-launch of the KM at a lower price. I have read that the KM was not a particularly good seller at the time and I can imagine the photo magazines slating it for being based on the old Spotmatic. But then Pentax made the K1000 specifically the cheapest big-brand (Pentax was one then) SLR you could buy, and so it won the market of people who didn't read photo magazines and, crucially, got it onto the lists of art school student requirements.

* The tooling for the K1000 is rumoured to be still around somewhere in China. That might be the best chance of a film SLR camera resurrection.

[TwoUptons]

The problem with an all-mechanical camera is which lenses to use. None of the “popular” brands make lenses compatible with mechanical cameras. That makes them unlikely to do it, since they wouldn’t be able to sell lenses to go with. Pentax is the only exception I’m aware of, and even then, you get focal lengths from 31-77mm…

It would be more likely to come from a third party…

I’m convinced the next all mechanical camera will be a Chinese M-mount rangefinder from one of the “Artisans”, which would still be cool, but not a SLR.

-Eric

[Bauie]

Top of my list would be the Pentax MX, a small and fully capable film SLR with the capabilities of the KX but that really compact body wrapped around a fabulous viewfinder. (yes, I've had one since forever)

But would it succeed? Nope. I hate to think what it would cost now and although film is enjoying a revival it's a really small niche within a shrinking niche. Sorry.


I hope you have a great class, film is where it all started for me!

I had 2 MX's over the years and found them to be easily broken compared to the rock solid tank that the K1000 was.
In many ways the K1000 was the perfect film camera. Didn't need a battery, all manual, you had to figure it out and in the process, learn. Almost indestructible.
Surely, with all this interest in film, the time is approaching where some manufacturer sees a market opening.

[foresmac]

Honestly, An OEM Cosina makes the most sense. They could offer something like the FE-10 and maybe call it the K-2000? They are easy to fix and could be spec’d with nicer parts and wrapped in a Pentax-styled body.

The biggest challenge is that Pentax hasn’t made an A-series lens since the 35–80 and 80–200 lenses sold with the ZX-M. I know Cosina could easily make some decent 50mm but I think the only other current lenses Pentax makes would be the HD FA Limited lenses as the HD FA 35/2, I think? Obviously this could leverage used lenses as well but you want to be able to sell something that works with existing stuff, too, and very few modern Pentax lenses have an aperture ring.

[RandyE]

Next year, for the first time since 2007, I will have more B&W film photo students than digital photography students in my high school classes.
As used 35mm SLRs become harder to acquire and more expensive, I wish one of the 2,668 billionaires in the world would have a pet project to revive one model of a film SLR.

I think important attributes include an entry level price and compatible with legacy lenses. Manual focus would keep the cost down but auto focus could be enticing for DSLR owners wanting to try (or return to) film.

Top of my wish list would be any of these models in this order:
a) Pentax KX
b) Nikon FM2n or F100 for AF
c) Canon AE-1 Program or EOS Rebel Ti for AF
d) Minolta SRT-202 or X700

Realistically it would be a more innovative camera company like Fujifilm with a stake in film. At one time, they had the license to use the F mount on their branded DSLRs.

What model would top your list and why? What model could actually succeed to be followed by some competitors?

Actually the best student prices are on the 80s SLRs. Although not as retro looking as the older 70s models, I am still finding them for less than $100. The advantage is finding them with depth of field preview, manual overide, exposure compensation, and P, S, A and M modes.

[Jonathan Mac]

As has been stated before when this topic comes up, a decent quality film SLR, even a fairly simple one, would cost as much as a good digital camera (DSLR or mirrorless). That's the reason why it wouldn't sell. There are still many, many used cameras out there and the expertise to repair them. Numbers will dwindle of course but in the time it takes for those cameras to become sparse enough, and therefore expensive enough, to merit a new camera, who knows where the film market will be.

[Thwyllo]

Nikon FE. A black one. I cut my serious teeth on one and have bought three recently plus a body for spares. Heaven. Failing that - and I can already hear the teeth sucking - a Konica Autoreflex TC, another beautiful mostly mechanical camera with some outstanding Hexanon lenses, of which I have also acquired a few!

But auto-focus? Nah. Having got back into film recently I think the whole point of a purely manual process is about understanding and appreciating what you're doing...take your time, enjoy the moment and think about whats going on. And how often do you read in camera comparison articles that 'autofocus is too slow' for sports or even general use. Tell that to Arthur Fellig and his Speed Graphic.


But one beef I DO have is that I don't see a shortage of old SLRs, just (1) prices creeping up, and (2) a LOT of crap. I despise rampant consumerism, so for me, opening workshops where people can be trained to fix and bring back to life these old cameras,whether its just replacing light seals or a complete rebuild from spares would be a huge asset.

[martin42mm]

I dont know the market in other countries, but in Denmark it is easy to get a manual SLR. Generally they are in good shape, the most common issue is stiff oil, they are used too little. All SLRs with a metal focal plane familiar to Copal square and the very underrated East Germany m42 models are good options.
It is not necessary with professional repair shops to take care of these juvels . Until my hands began to shake I made the maintenance myself. The most complicated is to change the fabric in the traditional focal plane shutter. Dont bother about the exposure meters. Today film photography is mostly slow photo and one meter in the hand is better than 10 on the camera if you are willing to use the brain. Using film for me is to get another approach than the highly automatic features in the DSLR. Developing BW is a must, enlarging yourself is the best

I'll second that thought.

As a repairer and servicer of mainly mechanical cameras & lenses, there are plenty of good 35mm SLR cameras available that rarely need more than a light service. As a Pentax devotee and user ( and this is Pentax forums!), I can recommend any mechanical Pentax, and if you need Pentax K-mount you cannot go far wrong with the K1000. There are plenty out there, they are reliable, have metering that is rarely not working ( usually caused by a leaked battery corroding a wire from the battery compartment that can be fixed), and don't cost the earth. Pentax could never afford to make one at the price of a good example these days. Also remember the K1000 is near enough a Spotmatic 1000 with a K bayonet, and Spotmatics are one of the most reliable cameras you can buy. I've owned and used dozens over the years, and have only had one issue when a pellet of metal left over from the manufacturing process finally found its way into a place where it could, and did, jam the mechanism. That was after 40 years of use, mind you, and was sorted out realtively easily. In fact of all the more than 100 mechanical Pentax cameras I have owned as a collector, and used as a photographer, that is the only failure ever-and that includes metering. Agreed the MX is a lovely camera, and I love the much brighter v/f on mine compared with the K1000, but it suffers from one achilles heel. For some reason the designers used cords, not tapes, to connect to the blinds, and if the tension is released slightly on a blind one or both cords can drop off the guide pulley(s)! Putting them back on involves a mirror-cage out strip down, with the self-timer also removed to assist access to the bottom l/h pulley. Not a sensible design!

There are newer Pentax 35mm cameras out there,but with the exception of the LX, they do suffer from either electronic reliability issues, or in the case of the otherwise excellent ME Super, a mechanical wind-on weakness that I have never managed to find a satisfactory solution to repairing economically. Many of the later cameras are also predominently plastic, and do not have the same tactile feel of the mechanical cameras. There are also more modern K-mount cameras from other makers, notably Cosina, but I have never found them as satisfying to use, and the quality of engineering has never impressed me-they always seem made down to a price-point. I can't comment on reliability since they are rarely worth repairing economically, so I do not get them across my workbench apart from my own examples.
Other manufacturers do make decent cameras, especially from the 'golden age' in the late 60's/early 70's, but since most people of these forums will have access to K-mount or m42 lenses, I suggest sticking to Pentax by choice.
If any manufacturer ever does make a 'new' mechanical SLR at a sensible price, I will be VERY suprised......

[TwoUptons]

Remember this? Originally planned to ship in 2018, they had a call in August of last year that didn't officially close everything, but it doesn't look good...

Reflex: Bringing back the analogue SLR camera by REFLEX ? Kickstarter

-Eric

[Lord Lucan]

In many ways the K1000 was the perfect film camera. Didn't need a battery, all manual, you had to figure it out and in the process, learn. Almost indestructible.

As I have said, that describes most cameras (other than P&S ones) made by the reputable brands up until about the mid-1970s, and many cameras after that. The main (but not the only) shortcoming of the K1000 compared with many of the others was its lack of a self-timer. It would be interesting to know how your MX's broke, most people seem to find them robust, as I did.

The biggest challenge is that Pentax hasn’t made an A-series lens since the 35–80 and 80–200 lenses sold with the ZX-M.

If Pentax (or any other maker) revived an old design of film camera they would need to revive an old lens with it. Anyone wanting to buy such a camera rather than buying a used one on Ebay would presumably be doing so for the sake of the newness of it, so then fitting a pre-owned lens would defeat the object. At least there would need to be a standard lens to sell with it, the M-Series 50mm F2 for example, but I don't think any other new lenses would be needed for such a market.

This is all hypothetical. There is no way this would make economic sense for any maker except maybe Leica, who could sell it at a staggering price as a vanity item.

[martin42mm]

Remember this? Originally planned to ship in 2018, they had a call in August of last year that didn't officially close everything, but it doesn't look good...

Reflex: Bringing back the analogue SLR camera by REFLEX ? Kickstarter

-Eric

Looking at the amount pledged at last count I doubt that would have funded enough to manufacture a wind-on lever, let alone a whole camera! The nearest I have seen to mechanical cameras made at a reasonable price have been the Cosina SLRs back in the early 1980's, and of course the Cosina/Bessa rangefinder cameras more recently. If anyone had the will and ability to manufacture a mechanical SLR these days it would probably be the Chinese, and I've seen no sign of that happening.

---------- Post added 05-10-22 at 09:10 AM ----------

As I have said, that describes most cameras (other than P&S ones) made by the reputable brands up until about the mid-1970s, and many cameras after that. The main (but not the only) shortcoming of the K1000 compared with many of the others was its lack of a self-timer. It would be interesting to know how your MX's broke, most people seem to find them robust, as I did.

If Pentax (or any other maker) revived an old design of film camera they would need to revive an old lens with it. Anyone wanting to buy such a camera rather than buying a used one on Ebay would presumably be doing so for the sake of the newness of it, so then fitting a pre-owned lens would defeat the object. At least there would need to be a standard lens to sell with it, the M-Series 50mm F2 for example, but I don't think any other new lenses would be needed for such a market.

This is all hypothetical. There is no way this would make economic sense for any maker except maybe Leica, who could sell it at a staggering price as a vanity item.

Regarding why MX bodies can fail, please see my earlier post regarding blind-cord slippage. Apart from that they are very reliable. As for K1000's having no self-timer, there are plenty of mechanical add-on timers that can be used, even a Pentax branded one if you look hard enough.
There are also many K-mount lenses out there second-hand, not all of them Pentax, and some very decent all-manual Chinese prime lenses at very reasonable prices, even brand-new.

[Kombivan]

The SFXn would be the best way to go shutter button is clear of the housing has all the bells and whistles. Next would be the MZ5 or MZ5n. the Minolta srt 202 got me very intesterested in photography and I won awards with the x700 which would be a good choice but the SFXn is the one tat most missed the opportunity of using.

[BigMackCam]

Of course, we're all forgetting there's actually one company making a 35mm film SLR we can go out and buy right now.

Ladies and gentlemen, please form an orderly queue and have your credit cards ready...

[TwoUptons]

Of course, we're all forgetting there's actually one company making a 35mm film SLR we can go out and buy right now.

Ladies and gentlemen, please form an orderly queue and have your credit cards ready...

Strictly speaking, this is a brand new medium format film camera you can buy today...
But I don't think this is what most of us are after

https://nonscamera.com

-Eric