[Lord Lucan]

... I don't think this is what most of us are after

https://nonscamera.com

Do I see the word "scam" in there?

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Last edited by Lord Lucan; 05-10-2022 at 02:37 PM. Reason: Deleted

[TwoUptons]

Do I see the word "scam" in there?

I see "non scam era"

I have no idea if they're a legitimate concern or not... but they were on the "other" website a few months ago...

-Eric

[martin42mm]

For completeness, the other KM features omitted to make the K1000 were the FP flash connector (out of date by then anyway) and the disc on the rewind hub by which you could set a film type reminder. Obviously the KM tooling and production line in the factory only needed slight changes to make K1000s from some point in 1976, and it would have been a Spotmatic line before that*. Pentax must still have had a stock of KMs for a while because I have seen a contemporary advert with the KM and K1000 shown alongside each other. The K1000 was not just made for art students, it was also a popular "family" camera, most owners of which probably would not know what a FoV preview was but could well miss the self-timer for family group shots. I worked with a family guy who owned a K1000 and he said he had been taken aback when he first discovered there was no self-timer. That didn't stop their popularity though.

Both the KM and K1000 are good, robust, all- metal, mechanical cameras; spartan if you like that, and not untypical of their time - a time when people expected cameras not only to last a lifetime but to be a heirloom too. My only beef with the K1000 is the cult that seems to have sprung up around it, with the consequence of silly prices being asked.

I have just checked the KM and K1000 reviews on PF and was amused to read this about the KM :
This reviewer seems to be unaware that it was the K1000 that was added to the line-up, not the KM, in fact it was a re-launch of the KM at a lower price. I have read that the KM was not a particularly good seller at the time and I can imagine the photo magazines slating it for being based on the old Spotmatic. But then Pentax made the K1000 specifically the cheapest big-brand (Pentax was one then) SLR you could buy, and so it won the market of people who didn't read photo magazines and, crucially, got it onto the lists of art school student requirements.

* The tooling for the K1000 is rumoured to be still around somewhere in China. That might be the best chance of a film SLR camera resurrection.

Interesting comment about the dof preview, which is always an important part of the reason for using an SLR. Even in a Pentax K camera without this facility, it is possible to do by releasing the lens lock button, and roating the lens back a few degrees. This removes the diaphragm lever from contact with the actuating lever in the camera, and so gives dof-something I have used successfully for years when needed.

---------- Post added 05-10-22 at 03:05 PM ----------

Honestly, An OEM Cosina makes the most sense. They could offer something like the FE-10 and maybe call it the K-2000? They are easy to fix and could be spec’d with nicer parts and wrapped in a Pentax-styled body.

The biggest challenge is that Pentax hasn’t made an A-series lens since the 35–80 and 80–200 lenses sold with the ZX-M. I know Cosina could easily make some decent 50mm but I think the only other current lenses Pentax makes would be the HD FA Limited lenses as the HD FA 35/2, I think? Obviously this could leverage used lenses as well but you want to be able to sell something that works with existing stuff, too, and very few modern Pentax lenses have an aperture ring.

Not convinced about the longevity of a mechanical Cosina, unless they improve on their previous efforts. But that would mean more expensive, and defeat the object. A K1000 however, in decent condition, will easily outlive every reader of this forum.

[Jaroslav]

It seems that the trend leans towards gaining more control over the process of photo making, not being completely happy/satisfied in automatic features that are done by us.
Shoot jpg -> shoot RAW -> manual focus -> film -> self developed film -> self printed print -> self CLAded camera -> self fixed camera :-)

As long as good quality old cameras are available (and don't cost a fortune), many may see this way as both challenging and economic.

During early days composing, and often instrument making as well, was a part of a musician's education and duty. Isn't that fascinating?

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Last edited by Jaroslav; 05-10-2022 at 05:32 PM.

[ChrisPlatt]

Not convinced about the longevity of a mechanical Cosina, unless they improve on their previous efforts. But that would mean more expensive, and defeat the object...

Cosina produced a series of high quality 35mm rangefinder and SLRs with
their Cosina Voigtlander Bessa line discontinued only a few years ago,
prior to renewed interest in film by a new generation of photographers.

Mid-priced when still available new, prices on all models in the line have
risen dramatically in the used market, a testament to their high quality.

Cosina continues to produce new lenses in various mounts.
The M-mount lenses offered are very popular, offering high-quality
precision Japanese optics for a fraction of the cost of Leica lenses.

IMO Cosina is capable of producing a camera at any price point desired.

Chris

[TwoUptons]

It seems that the trend leans towards gaining more control over the process of photo making, not being completely happy/satisfied in automatic features that are done by us.
Shoot jpg -> shoot RAW -> manual focus -> film -> self developed film -> self printed print -> self CLAded camera -> self fixed camera :-)

As long as good quality old cameras are available (and don't cost a fortune), many may see this way as both challenging and economic.

During early days composing, and often instrument making as well, was a part of a musician's education and duty. Isn't that fascinating?

If you really want full control, you need to be making your own film emulsion

I wonder if at some point it will go back to that... but I am too lazy and spoiled by convenience to put up with glass plates...

-Eric

[Bauie]

As I have said, that describes most cameras (other than P&S ones) made by the reputable brands up until about the mid-1970s, and many cameras after that. The main (but not the only) shortcoming of the K1000 compared with many of the others was its lack of a self-timer. It would be interesting to know how your MX's broke, most people seem to find them robust, as I did.

If Pentax (or any other maker) revived an old design of film camera they would need to revive an old lens with it. Anyone wanting to buy such a camera rather than buying a used one on Ebay would presumably be doing so for the sake of the newness of it, so then fitting a pre-owned lens would defeat the object. At least there would need to be a standard lens to sell with it, the M-Series 50mm F2 for example, but I don't think any other new lenses would be needed for such a market.

This is all hypothetical. There is no way this would make economic sense for any maker except maybe Leica, who could sell it at a staggering price as a vanity item.

Regarding my two MX's. Both had light meter issues, as in the meter stopped working, I had one fixed and it broke again, in a way they did me a favour as it made me go to a handheld meter and I never used camera meters again. I had a rewind lever break on one and the shutter gave up when one was stored for a couple of years.

[foresmac]

Strictly speaking, this is a brand new medium format film camera you can buy today...
But I don't think this is what most of us are after

https://nonscamera.com

I have a Nons SL42 with a K-mount adapter and it’s fun to use. I have plenty of criticisms but it’s a real camera and really works.

[ZombieArmy]

I don't think good oldschool film slr cameras are becoming rare, just demand is increasing so prices are going with it. If you look at cameras that aren't the popular SKUs like a k1000 or an AE-1 you can generally find good deals.


Something like an old Spotmatic SP500 will be literally peanuts despite it being identical to an sp1000... I see several auctions for cameras in good cosmetic condition with a 55 f2 for 45-70 usd.

[Jaroslav]

If you really want full control, you need to be making your own film emulsion

I wonder if at some point it will go back to that... but I am too lazy and spoiled by convenience to put up with glass plates...

-Eric

That is exactly what I thought as well! With the film increasing in price one starts to hesitate before loading it - is the walk/trip worth enough to spend your precious roll? Like a remark by Michael Caine on a seasoned vine: "You cannot drink it, Freddy, it's too valuable", in "Dirty rotten scoundrels" movie . :-)

But on a serious note - probably must be completely unfeasible to attempt making a home-brewed roll of 135 film?

[Thwyllo]

Honestly, An OEM Cosina makes the most sense. .

Interesting...I've just bought a Cosina CS-2 with its basic 50mm f2, but also two 28mm lenses (which are Pentax K are they not?)...the Cosina-W 28mm f2.8 and the Cosina MC Macro 28mm f2.8 which got a 10.0 for sharpness when reviewed on here...and all for under 100 euros! Happy days.

[martin42mm]

Cosina produced a series of high quality 35mm rangefinder and SLRs with
their Cosina Voigtlander Bessa line discontinued only a few years ago,
prior to renewed interest in film by a new generation of photographers.

Mid-priced when still available new, prices on all models in the line have
risen dramatically in the used market, a testament to their high quality.

Cosina continues to produce new lenses in various mounts.
The M-mount lenses offered are very popular, offering high-quality
precision Japanese optics for a fraction of the cost of Leica lenses.

IMO Cosina is capable of producing a camera at any price point desired.

Chris

Agreed Cosina have the ability to make any photographic product at any price point-I was making suggestions for reliable K-mount cameras, and if you have delved inside as many Cosina SLRs as I have you would soon see they were made DOWN to a price, and no match for the internal quality of any mechanical Pentax such as the K1000. I've never had one of the later Bessa SLR cameras across my workbench so can make no comment on those, but having dismantled a few of the Bessa/Voigtander rangefinder cameras I do know that they were basically early 1980's Cosina SLRs, but minus the prism and mirror-cage. Everything else was near-identical. Which makes me wonder why they cost as much as they did, given the development costs would have been mostly amortised by the time they were produced.
I have never doubted Cosina's ability in the optical department, though. Some of my best lenses are Cosina-made, even if they don't have Cosina's name on them. But my point stands-if you want a reliable K-mount camera at a reasonable price and that feels good to use, buy a Pentax!

[TwoUptons]

I have a Nons SL42 with a K-mount adapter and it’s fun to use. I have plenty of criticisms but it’s a real camera and really works.

I keep wondering why they haven't come out with a 35mm or 120 back for that thing...

It seems like they could, and even if it is clunky and has issues, it's a start...

The Reflex I linked to above had interchangeable film holders that also looked complicated and awkward...

-Eric

[Terry C]

I have had my Nikon F3 since new in 1983. Tried others, but they don't even come close.

[foresmac]

I keep wondering why they haven't come out with a 35mm or 120 back for that thing...

It seems like they could, and even if it is clunky and has issues, it's a start...

I don’t really think they could; the whole camera is designed around Instax film. The whole mirror box moves to make an exposure.