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06-03-2022, 09:39 PM   #1
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An Infrared Database Project

Hello Pentaxians,

Recently I've been bitten by the bug for B&W infrared photography, A tedious and temperamental endeavor to be sure, but when everything works out, the images you get back can be stunning.

In acquiring as much information as possible before shooting my rolls of Rollei IR 400 and Superpan 200, I noticed a severe lack of information available for Pentax shooters looking to shoot IR Film. Across the internet, I can find resources for how Nikon lenses fare while shooting IR, Many references and anecdotes from Canon users etc. But almost nothing when it comes to Pentax lenses. There are a few results on the Kolari website, but most of those are all digital era lenses designed for APS-C cameras.

So I've taken it upon myself to try cataloging as much of the available data myself, Testing my lenses, and if at all possible, linking to sample photos showing issues or prime examples of good performers, cataloguing the ones with hot spots etc. Ideally, I would love to get the community involved in this as well.

I haven't figured out the best method for making this information available for all those who want it, Be that a Google Sheets document or somewhere here on the forums, Maybe hosting it on my website etc.

This is mainly an effort to brainstorm ideas, gauge interest etc. So, I'd love to hear from people. Anyone have great experiences with a specific lens? Know of a hidden gem of information somewhere? Any testing methodology you would like to see implemented? Got any sample photos to share?

Anything anyone feels like adding, requesting, Thoughts, opinions, I would love to hear from people.

Thanks for your time.

06-04-2022, 07:50 AM   #2
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Hi Metric, i am a bit surprised, do lenses really perform different when used for IR images on film? I have done a lot if IR film work, and i never noticed any of my lenses to be any better or worse with IR film compared to normal light photography.

Last edited by MESuper1981; 06-04-2022 at 11:57 AM.
06-04-2022, 09:21 AM   #3
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Pentax small format film lenses or their medium format film lenses?
06-04-2022, 09:25 AM - 1 Like   #4
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I did some b&w i/r film photography "back in the day", Kodak HIE, Ilford SFX and some other emulsions whose names escape me for the moment, I don't ever remember having a problem that could be considered to be "lens-related".
Having said that I did usually rely on the "infra-red index" on the focussing scale so one might assume from that that the lenses I used had been tested and/or designed with infra-red in mind.
One disappointment … when I "moved over" to Pentax (from Fujica) and bought my *ist film camera I was annoyed to discover that it was i/r incompatible 'cos it used an infra-red sensor for the film transport

06-04-2022, 05:07 PM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by MESuper1981 Quote
Hi Metric, i am a bit surprised, do lenses really perform different when used for IR images on film? I have done a lot if IR film work, and i never noticed any of my lenses to be any better or worse with IR film compared to normal light photography.
Some lenses are known to be poor performers in IR, Mostly due to hot spots or flaring. you can find some good example of what the hotspots look like here. Some other lenses won't have hotspots but will flare really easily due to the lenses not being designed for how the longer wavelengths of IR light interact with the lens elements.

Admittedly most film era lenses do fair much better than lenses designed for digital, but still there is a wealth of data to collect and not a lot of existing information left.

---------- Post added 06-04-22 at 05:10 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by tuco Quote
Pentax small format film lenses or their medium format film lenses?
Both ideally! I have a fairly large selection of 135 format Pentax lenses, And I do have a Pentax 645 with 2 lenses as well. But hopefully with community submissions and interactions the amount of lenses we can cover will span all the formats Pentax made lenses for. I know for sure I want to run some IR film through my 645 and the lenses I currently own.
06-05-2022, 01:51 AM   #6
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I think the hot spots are caused by reflections on the digital camera sensor chips, but i am no expert in these matters. I don't know if lenses have more flares in the IR spectrum, but that is not much of an issue in analog IR photography anyway. You are trying to get most of the wood effect. That works best with the sun behind you and the sunlight reflected by leaves or other greenery. Shooting into the sun or with the sun from the side (typical flare risks) won't be much different in IR than in normal b/w. In any case, a lens hood will do.

All that said, i think you theorize way too much. Take you camera with your favorite lenses. put the IR filter and IR film and just shoot! I am sure you will have some amazing shots and you will learn from the others. IR film photograpy is fun!




Schleissheim castle Horizon S3, Rollei Infrared Film, Kodak Wratten #87filter, Rodinal.

Last edited by MESuper1981; 06-05-2022 at 07:50 AM.
06-06-2022, 09:35 AM - 4 Likes   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by Metric Quote
Some lenses are known to be poor performers in IR, Mostly due to hot spots or flaring.
I shoot a lot digital IR with a full spectrum camera by only using an R72 filter. I tried and have seen some hot spots with my DSLR and lenses for that system. Plus I'd get way too long of shutter speeds at base ISO to be practical. However, with my unmodified M9, R72 filter, Zeiss and Voigtländer lenses, I don't get any hotspots. Plus the shutter speeds are much faster with this camera in sunlight but still not in the handhold range like you'd get with a modified camera.

QuoteQuote:
But hopefully with community submissions and interactions the amount of lenses we can cover will span all the formats Pentax made lenses for. I know for sure I want to run some IR film through my 645 and the lenses I currently own.
I shoot IR film too. But images I've taken with Pentax lenses are mostly from back in the Kodak's HIE days which with only a deep red filter you could get that glowing, IR look. I have Pentax 67 lens examples with Konica IR film + deep red filter which didn't yield much IR effect. And what Rollei IR film + R72 filter I've shot has been done with other lens brands. But in all film cases I've never even worried about hot spots.

I like the digital IR from my M9 + R72 which is like shooting a camera with a 9 or 10-stop ND filter in terms of shutter speed. Not always practical but a lot like shooting Rollei IR + R72 filter at EI 6 or 12.

M9, Zeiss 35/2 + R72


Mill Creek
by tuco, on Flickr

06-08-2022, 06:32 AM - 2 Likes   #8
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Rollei Infrared film, SMC Pentax "K" 24mm f/2.8 lens, 720nm filter.


St Helen's, Wheathampstead par Kris Lockyear, on ipernity

As above but K30/2.8 lens.


Heron's Farm in infrared par Kris Lockyear, on ipernity

As above but I didn't record the lens. I think it was the 24mm again.


Lamer (infrared) par Kris Lockyear, on ipernity
06-27-2022, 10:03 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by tuco Quote
I shoot a lot digital IR with a full spectrum camera by only using an R72 filter. I tried and have seen some hot spots with my DSLR and lenses for that system. Plus I'd get way too long of shutter speeds at base ISO to be practical. However, with my unmodified M9, R72 filter, Zeiss and Voigtländer lenses, I don't get any hotspots. Plus the shutter speeds are much faster with this camera in sunlight but still not in the handhold range like you'd get with a modified camera.



I shoot IR film too. But images I've taken with Pentax lenses are mostly from back in the Kodak's HIE days which with only a deep red filter you could get that glowing, IR look. I have Pentax 67 lens examples with Konica IR film + deep red filter which didn't yield much IR effect. And what Rollei IR film + R72 filter I've shot has been done with other lens brands. But in all film cases I've never even worried about hot spots.

I like the digital IR from my M9 + R72 which is like shooting a camera with a 9 or 10-stop ND filter in terms of shutter speed. Not always practical but a lot like shooting Rollei IR + R72 filter at EI 6 or 12.

M9, Zeiss 35/2 + R72


Mill Creek
by tuco, on Flickr
Awesome image. Just magical.

There are IR photographers in the IR forums at ultraviolet photography.com. I do a lot of reading there. Quite a few scientists post and answer questions.

Thanks,
barondla
06-27-2022, 09:31 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by barondla Quote
Awesome image. Just magical.

There are IR photographers in the IR forums at ultraviolet photography.com. I do a lot of reading there. Quite a few scientists post and answer questions.

Thanks,
barondla
Thanks.
06-28-2022, 08:18 AM   #11
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Haven't shot IR film is a while, from my memory
Lenses do behave differently, that is why the old Takumar lenses had the IR focusing mark (Red-R line as shown below)
Since IR filters make it very difficult to see thought the viewfinder, you focus without filter (focus to diamond), then move the focus-mark to the R-line for IR


As you can see that was a pain, so I preferred using RF cameras, so that I could focus and shoot easily. Zeiss lenses behaved great in IR, so no need to adjust focusing


Extended Red sensitivity films (SFX200 or Superpan) don;t go into the full IR, so this adjustment is not needed
However a 720nm filter is quite dark, so focusing without, and then adding the filter is a hassle

Filter is dark, and SFX200 with a Cokin P007 or a Wratten 89b filter was rated as 12-16 when light was metered without filter (5 stops loss)
Wratten 89B Data

Last edited by titrisol; 06-28-2022 at 08:25 AM.
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