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06-04-2022, 05:49 PM   #1
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35mm SLR Apples to Apples...

Not the board game... lol

I know when comparing brand to brand across the board, that "comparable" cameras can have slightly different options. This can make it difficult to stay in the apples to apples without getting into apples to oranges comparisons.

I have a Minolta XD11 and was wondering what your opinion is on other cameras that were built to compete with that specific camera, or visa versa.

Pentax, Olympus, Canon, and Nikon are what I would think would be the closest competitors.

Feel free to add other model to model comparisons as well. I know that these comparisons will help me, and hopefully others.

So let's have some fun.


Last edited by Sam_I_am; 06-04-2022 at 06:00 PM.
06-04-2022, 06:43 PM - 1 Like   #2
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The XD7/11 is circa 1976/77 so looking at the higher-end models of around that time would be the Nikon F/FE, Canon A-1, Pentax ME Super, and the Olympus OM-2/n.

The XD7 was ground breaking as it featured both shutter (Tv) and aperture (Av) priority modes as well as manual modes.

I remember Canon touting their shutter (Tv) priority mode cameras as sports photography cameras while all the aperture (Av) priority cameras touting their cameras as more artistic/creative cameras. The XD7/11 gave you both.
06-04-2022, 06:43 PM   #3
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The XD7/11 is circa 1976/77 so looking at the higher-end models of around that time would be the Nikon F/FE, Canon A-1, Pentax ME Super, and the Olympus OM-2/n.

The XD7 was ground breaking as it featured both shutter (Tv) and aperture (Av) priority modes as well as manual modes.

I remember Canon touting their shutter (Tv) priority mode cameras as sports photography cameras while all the aperture (Av) priority cameras touting their cameras as more artistic/creative cameras. The XD7/11 gave you both.
06-04-2022, 07:37 PM   #4
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That immediately puts things in perspective for me. My wife's first camera is the ME super, so I am familiar with that model since she let me use it (sparingly and under a watchful eye since it was her baby at the time). I also have an OM2n. That and the XD11 I have not used yet, but now I know what to expect out of both of them when I do.

Have any of you actually used some of these yourself and why you liked one over the other. I have read a few online reviews about this camera but no across the board comparisons.

06-04-2022, 10:35 PM - 1 Like   #5
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I believe the 1977 Minolta XD-11 would be comparable in features to the 1978 Canon A-1, 1983 Nikon FA and the 1983 Pentax Super Program in terms of auto exposure modes. I have all of these and also the OM-2.

I really like the XD-11 as it is a very smooth camera.



Here are a couple of reviews of the XD-11 if you haven't already seen them . . . Photography in Malaysia XD-11 and Rokkorfiles XD-11
06-04-2022, 11:18 PM - 1 Like   #6
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The Rokkorfiles is the first place I go for anything Minolta. I find it humorous that this particular model was the child of a collaboration with Leica, and yet the one that says Leica costs more. Oh, and two Leica lenses are actually Minolta. 😆
06-04-2022, 11:52 PM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by Sam_I_am Quote
The Rokkorfiles is the first place I go for anything Minolta. I find it humorous that this particular model was the child of a collaboration with Leica, and yet the one that says Leica costs more. Oh, and two Leica lenses are actually Minolta. 😆
Reading the publications in the day, it would seem Leica needed Minolta's electronics as they were lagging very far behind the Japanese camera market.

As lenses go, lucky for us it seems Minolta lenses are underrated and therefore quite affordable. Back in the day, "Minolta is one of only two companies in Japan and one of a very few in the world that make their own optical glass and lenses."



06-05-2022, 12:04 AM   #8
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XD11’s are great cameras, arguably best in class in their era. These were top of the line model aimed at serious enthusiast/pro. It’s strong points are a superb viewfinder with full information and a crisp bright focussing screen that snaps into focus better than most. Minolta’s accu-matte focussing screen technology was so good that it was licensed by Hasselblad. It also has beautiful build quality and a nicely damped mirror.

They are light and compact - the same size as OM1/Pentax MX/Nikon FM. People will argue about a few mm here and there but for me they are close enough to be lumped together in one group.

The downside based on my examples is the film transport mechanism. Both of mine have above average friction. I suspect the transport mechanism will need a strip down and rebuild to rectify this. This is not an uncommon problem on vintage film cameras. My FM2 was the same. Pentax MX is buttery smooth by comparison and Nikon F2/3 and Pentax LX are in another league.

Another known problem is the mirror damping system. The lubricants can get stiff which causes a noticeable shutter lag. Leica R series cameras can also get this fault. It should be possible to get this fixed during service.

One of my XD11s has the problem of the shutter button getting stuck down after trying to use the mechanical self timer, so is now waiting for a service. It was working perfectly before I tried the ST. If you plan to buy one I would recommend testing the self timer.

The XD11 share the die-cast aluminium chassis with the Leica R4 (also used for Leica R5 and 6). I am not sure if Leica or Minolta did the design and engineering for the chassis, but it was obviously aimed at the ultra premium end of the market that Leica was competing in. The advantage of sharing the chassis with Leica is that you can buy a used leather case Leica made for the R4. These are beautiful quality leather unlike the fake leather cases from all other japanese brands which have since disintegrated.
06-05-2022, 05:13 AM - 1 Like   #9
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I think this is an excellent example of how cameras from different brands didn't all line up with each other perfectly, feature-wise

I far preferred the Minolta's controls to the ME Super -- even though I loved my Super Program (which was later than the Minolta), I prefer a dial to buttons.

As I recall, the Minolta (it's been a long time since I held one) also had really good feel in the hand, much better than the SRTs, though it is a bit larger than the M-series Pentaxes.
I also liked it more than the Nikon FE and far more than the Olympus, as I never got on with their shutter speed dial/lever being at the lens mount.

-Eric
06-05-2022, 06:19 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by Sam_I_am Quote
The Rokkorfiles is the first place I go for anything Minolta. I find it humorous that this particular model was the child of a collaboration with Leica, and yet the one that says Leica costs more. Oh, and two Leica lenses are actually Minolta. 😆
So this one is from the time of the Leica/Minolta CL/CLE and the Leica R series!
I have to assume that the X series and the Leica R have a lot in common.
Leica R5s are probably the smoothest SLRs you can try, used one in the 90s and loved it but lenses were too expensive
06-05-2022, 10:48 AM - 1 Like   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by andrewd Quote
XD11’s are great cameras, arguably best in class in their era. These were top of the line model aimed at serious enthusiast/pro. It’s strong points are a superb viewfinder with full information and a crisp bright focussing screen that snaps into focus better than most. Minolta’s accu-matte focussing screen technology was so good that it was licensed by Hasselblad. It also has beautiful build quality and a nicely damped mirror.

They are light and compact - the same size as OM1/Pentax MX/Nikon FM. People will argue about a few mm here and there but for me they are close enough to be lumped together in one group.

The downside based on my examples is the film transport mechanism. Both of mine have above average friction. I suspect the transport mechanism will need a strip down and rebuild to rectify this. This is not an uncommon problem on vintage film cameras. My FM2 was the same. Pentax MX is buttery smooth by comparison and Nikon F2/3 and Pentax LX are in another league.

Another known problem is the mirror damping system. The lubricants can get stiff which causes a noticeable shutter lag. Leica R series cameras can also get this fault. It should be possible to get this fixed during service.

One of my XD11s has the problem of the shutter button getting stuck down after trying to use the mechanical self timer, so is now waiting for a service. It was working perfectly before I tried the ST. If you plan to buy one I would recommend testing the self timer.

The XD11 share the die-cast aluminium chassis with the Leica R4 (also used for Leica R5 and 6). I am not sure if Leica or Minolta did the design and engineering for the chassis, but it was obviously aimed at the ultra premium end of the market that Leica was competing in. The advantage of sharing the chassis with Leica is that you can buy a used leather case Leica made for the R4. These are beautiful quality leather unlike the fake leather cases from all other japanese brands which have since disintegrated.
It really is just a matter of a few millimeters and a few grams . . .



Amazing how an interchangeable viewfinder SLR fits just fine in the lineup.

I agree that the XD-11's viewfinder is very bright and sharp. The Popular Photography 01-77 issue reviews the XD-11 with a complete stripdown to the components. It is a very positive review with good grades assigned for everything about it - inside and out as well as serviceability.

I've had a few cameras - of different brands and models, that have suffered from mechanical self timer failure. Most likely those are all lubrication related issues that can be addressed by a common CLA. A colleague of mine - was an avid XD-11 user and did his own CLA, told me the most common XD-11 issue was the leatherette lifting up.
06-06-2022, 11:51 PM   #12
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Might consider the super light weight X370 (made in Japan version). It is my travel camera.
Main detractors are 1/60th sync speed, and that it doesn't look like much (although it is charming to use).
Main good points are sharpest glass at the lowest cost, and the AE Lock feature (much easier than +- comp rings).

When fitted with a comfy and lighter 2" wide neoprene strap, the very lightweight X370 can be comfortably carried all day.
It is slightly larger albeit much lighter than my ME Super.
06-07-2022, 12:40 AM   #13
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From leofoo's site :

QuoteQuote:
The A-1 is a multi-mode AE camera. But with a difference. It doesn't merely have shutter-priority AE and aperture priority AE. It's got five AE modes - Shutter-priority AE, Aperture priority AE, Programmed AE, stopped-down AE and electronic flash AE. Plus manual override if you so desire.

This has given Canon a strong foothold as compared with the Minolta XD-7 which has the advantage of been introduced a year earlier than the A-1. Why ? Firstly, the A-1 has Programed AE which was not available in the XD-7. Secondly, Canon has a very extensive accessories line-up to take advantage of the shutter priority AE mode. There were three automatic film advance accessories including a high speed 5 fps Motor Drive MA set while the XD-7 has only a slow 2 fps Power Winder to offer. Other convenient system accessories and camera operations such as interchangeable focusing screens, one hand operation for multiple exposures has made the Canon A-1 a more logical choice for those who have the primary preference for action-related photography. Compared with the models from the competitions such as Fujifilm's Fujica AX-5 in 1980, which also offered same system configurations and camera specifications, the Canon A-1 was the favorite among photographers because it has a larger and more complete system accessories to back it up. During its introduction, there were already more than 40 FD lenses of various focal lengths and applications to choose from (it has peaked at around 60 in numbers when the T-90 was introduced in 1986). The Fujica AX-5 only has six X-Fujinon lenses that can take advantage of the Shutter Priority and Programmed AE modes.

The Pentax K2 was one of the few early models that was introduced by Pentax during the end of 1975 with a new K-bayonet mount to replaced the popular M42-mount that has brought some very popular bodies such as the Spotmatic series.

The new mount, however, has not been designed to provide Pentax cameras to offer shutter priority AE mode. In a way, among the top five camera manufacturers in Japan, only the Canon FD and Minolta MD lenses have such capabilities. The Nikkor lenses from Nikon were upgraded quietly in 1979 with a new AI-S series but it was not until 1983 that saw the first multimode Nikon body in Nikon FA that eventually offered both Programmed & Shutter Priority AE. In 1980, Pentax introduced another new KA-mount which allowed their new series of A-bodies (such as Super A and Super Program) to provide both Programmed and Shutter Priority AE in addition to Aperture Priority AE.
...
06-07-2022, 08:45 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by fs999 Quote
From leofoo's site : Firstly, the A-1 has Programed AE which was not available in the XD-7.
Actually, the XD-11 does support programmed autoexposure mode but just oddly left out of the manual. Is this a "hack"? It is also not identified in rokkor files XD-11 This mode is detailed at Photography in Malaysia XD-7/XD-11.
06-07-2022, 05:31 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by LesDMess Quote
Actually, the XD-11 does support programmed autoexposure mode but just oddly left out of the manual. Is this a "hack"? It is also not identified in rokkor files XD-11 This mode is detailed at Photography in Malaysia XD-7/XD-11.
Wait, so "program" mode only works if you set the camera where it will over or under expose, then the camera will step in and save you?

I think that would drive me up the wall if I was trying to do something intentional...

-Eric
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