[BandeauRouge]

Just ended up with some of the Time Life library of photograpy books, truly answered a few answers for me that a particular other forum refused to.

Have a few questions that have been outlawed over their for ME to ask..


1. Macro photography can be done several ways with a bellow. A single bellows with the traditional 12 or 13" scale can easily do 8x magnification, however the addition of the accessory bellows in front of that, with the lens mounted into the accessory bellows can give you even more.

My question is, where does one find the accessory bellows these days? The only ones i can find that LOOK right are vintage gear that have an attachment to take photos of slides..


2. Does a macro rail ad anything at all to the process?

[acoufap]

Just ended up with some of the Time Life library of photograpy books, truly answered a few answers for me that a particular other forum refused to.

Have a few questions that have been outlawed over their for ME to ask..


1. Macro photography can be done several ways with a bellow. A single bellows with the traditional 12 or 13" scale can easily do 8x magnification, however the addition of the accessory bellows in front of that, with the lens mounted into the accessory bellows can give you even more.

My question is, where does one find the accessory bellows these days? The only ones i can find that LOOK right are vintage gear that have an attachment to take photos of slides..


2. Does a macro rail ad anything at all to the process?

Novoflex … expensive and auto versions only for a few brands, not Pentax …

Balgengeräte Makrofotografie

[photoptimist]

1. Stacking bellows seems like a hard way to get more magnification.

If you want more magnification, you might do better to get a shorter focal length macro lens. A 50mm macro needs another 2 inches (50mm) of bellows or extension just to add 1X more of magnification. A 25mm macro (e.g., the Laowa 25mm f/2.8 2.5-5X Ultra Macro) needs only 1 inch (25 mm) of bellows or extension to add 1X of magnification. Olympus made a Zuiko 20/3.5 macro that would get even more magnification out of a 12" or 13" bellows. You might also try reversing a wide angle lens for high-macro with your existing bellows or extension tubes.

2. At high macro magnifications, the lens-to-subject distance changes very little while the camera-to-lens and camera-to-subject distance changes a lot. (At greater the 1:1, the lens scoots a little toward the subject while the camera backs up a lot). A macro rail can help provide precision control of these distances.

[UncleVanya]

This is where you need to look for the best techniques to use: Extreme Macro Photography

Reversing a lens in front of another, add on macro lenses (aka macro filters), and other methods increase magnification with less loss of light than large extensions.

Another approach is to use an extension tube to link two bellows. But my honest opinion is that this is just not as efficient as other methods for high magnification macro.

[Not a Number]

The only reference I've seen of stacking bellows was in one of the vintage Asahi macro/accessory booklets. No mention of accessories or how to achieve this.

If you need more extension it would probably be easier and sturdier to use extension tubes with the bellows rather then two bellows.

You can adapt microscope objective lenses if you want extreme macro without increasing extension.

[UncleVanya]

It’s important to remember the lines of resolution of a given lens will be highly stressed using a large amount of extension as you are literally blowing up a tiny fraction of the light the lens captured to cover the sensor. As lens resolution dies out the return on increased magnification fades.

[tuco]

Perhaps you can use an extension tube(s) on the lens in place of an extension bellows.

[tryphon4]

Photomacrography, when performed between 5:1 and 10:1 (upwards 10:1, we are in the photomicrography domain, which is even more specialized), is difficult: depth of field is inversely proportional to enlargement and of course sharpness decreases when you close the diaphragm. It is important to note that usual macro lenses (designed for enlargement less or equal to 1:1) are generally not sharp at all when you use them beyond 5:1.
This is why the lenses that are sharp beyond 5:1 are rare and expensive.

Under 5:1, some enlarging lenses are useful. I own a Schneider Componon 28mm F/4, it is very interesting below 5:1 (it is sharper than a Canon MP-E 65mm and, as mine has 15 blades, the bokeh is smooth). You can use it up to 8:1 but sharpness will not be "razor blade".

From 5:1 to 10:1, the best solution is to use special macro lenses (e.g. Leitz photar, Leitz milar, Leitz summar, Olympus zuiko 20mm, Minolta micro rokkor 12.5mm) or microscope lenses (5X or 10X ULWD or ELWD or SLWD APO lenses are better). Please note that there are 2 kinds of microscope lenses: finite and infinite. You can directly use a finite lens if your bellows length is OK, but you cannot directly mount an infinite microscope lens on a bellows : you must use a focusing lens between the microscope lens and the camera. This is a bit technical, sorry.



Here is a very interesting site: The Macrolens Collection Database

[mlag]

2. Does a macro rail ad anything at all to the process?

The rail can help to focus in small microsteps, sometimes more accurate than the lens focus ring;
especially when using focus stacking, what you use if the depth of field is so narrow that you need different sharp ”focus”slices/pictures of your macro object, to be combined in one picture in postprocessing.... the rail allows to advance the focus point without refocusing the lens (and resulting changes like focus breathing/different view angle). Some rails can do this automatically with a little stepper motor.
Some stacks use several 10’s of pictures , shifting the focus point in fractions of millimeter, preferable nice even steps to allow dof to overlap nicely, and the rail can help - thanks to the more precise rotating knobs/railscales to advance the camera on rail....
More literature here
Focus Stacking Tips? - PentaxForums.com


Note that bellows have also adjusting knobs, but they change bellows length, hence magnification (and as side effect focus distance), the focus rail only changes focus distance ....

[gofour3]

Welcome and check out this macro guide from one of our forum members:

The Pentax Macro eBook - Articles and Tips | PentaxForums.com

Phil.

[UncleVanya]

Note that bellows have also adjusting knobs, but they change bellows length, hence magnification (and as side effect focus distance), the focus rail only changes focus distance ....

Some bellows have an additional rail allowing movement of the entire bellows but that’s not as common.

[LesDMess]

The Pentax Autobellows K system does come in two parts - the main bellows and a short externsion Slide bellows.



A manual can be found at Butkus Pentax Autobellows manual

Of course you can stack a couple (or more) bellows together . . . even add extenders in between . . . will get really dark . . .



Just how much magnification are you looking for? Maybe a microscope is needed?

[BandeauRouge]

primarily a film man..

the time life books say that the "standard" bellows should give 8.5x magnification. That actually IS enough for my needs,,, but the addition of the extension bellows tube, is supposed to give you a maximum extension length of 438 or 498mm.. and with with the lens reversed, nerely microscope magnification. thats with what the book calls "the normal 50mm lens that comes with almost all cameras".

I have one ebay seller who says that the slide copy section can be turned into the second extension bellows and have the lens mounted on it, but cant get any explanation or walkthrough on HOW that would be done, as the slide copy secton has no diaphragm control...

Im thinking the macro bellows is the way to go as I dont have any 1:1 macro lenses. And getting extension tubes or a macro lens still makes me need to get the focusing rail.

[LesDMess]

This series shows the magnification you can get starting with just a macro lens, then with the autobellows and finally with the lens reversed. Not nearly close to a microscope.



The Pentax slide bellows cannot be "normally" used as another autobellows as the slide/film holder is on the end and there is no lens mount on it.

[BandeauRouge]

Its a crapshoot either way, gonna cost, but still cheaper then trying to get a macro rig for a medium format camera or getting a veiw camera