[TaoMaas]

In their video, Pentax talked about realizing that they were losing the engineers who knew how to create film cameras so they started this film project as a way for the older generation of camera engineers to pass along their knowledge to the younger engineers. Going so far as to build an entire line of film cameras seems a bit excessive if Pentax is simply wanting to tap into the current trend of shooting with film because that's a pretty small market, I think. But there's also been talk of AI eventually being able to replace professional photography. Could Pentax's film project also be kind of a "Plan B" in case AI makes digital photography somewhat obsolete and "serious" photographers revert to film?

[kypfer]

... Could Pentax's film project also be kind of a "Plan B" in case AI makes digital photography somewhat obsolete and "serious" photographers revert to film?

Haha
If that happens film usage will go up so costs may actually fall
I'm having a personal "return to basics" myself at the moment, using an EXA 1a.
Waist-level viewfinder, four shutter speeds (three and a half in practice) plus B, manual everything lens and no instant-return mirror.
Going back to using a separate light meter (Weston Master V) takes a bit of concentration!
Certainly puts a different perspective on "Making a Photograph", but the end results are so much more satisfying!

[reh321]

In their video, Pentax talked about realizing that they were losing the engineers who knew how to create film cameras so they started this film project as a way for the older generation of camera engineers to pass along their knowledge to the younger engineers. Going so far as to build an entire line of film cameras seems a bit excessive if Pentax is simply wanting to tap into the current trend of shooting with film because that's a pretty small market, I think. But there's also been talk of AI eventually being able to replace professional photography. Could Pentax's film project also be kind of a "Plan B" in case AI makes digital photography somewhat obsolete and "serious" photographers revert to film?

That is an interesting question. I’m not a camera engineer, so I don’t know whether a ratcheted film transport - which would result from the film project - is all they would need - besides the K-1 - to build a modern film camera, but it is quite conceivable to me.

[TwoUptons]

That is an interesting question. I’m not a camera engineer, so I don’t know whether a ratcheted film transport - which would result from the film project - is all they would need - besides the K-1 - to build a modern film camera, but it is quite conceivable to me.

For the compact they have suggested would be first, they would also need a shutter, viewfinder and entire focusing system, as well as the obvious lens and film transport.

I expect finding suppliers for some of those components that would have been ordered complete in the past will be tricky...

For the SLR, I expect they will also need to figure out a way to operate the camera using a completely separate set of components from the K1 (or K3iii).
While much of that can be shared among the digital cameras, that's not going to be the case for a film SLR.
In the absence of a screen, for example, how do you run all that stuff?
And would the same set of control circuitry even be sensible? would a new set of internals be worth it in the volumes they are planning?

I'm sure they are considering all that, but it will be complicated.

It would be interesting if Ricoh ended up building much of the next Leica film camera if they were the only ones left with the expertise... like Cosina and the FM10 a few years back...

-Eric

[ChrisPlatt]

If this is in reference to a potential new Pentax "simple" film camera I do realize that I'm not among the target demographic.

However I must say that every 35mm point & shoot I ever tried did not fail to disappoint in one way or another.
That includes "better" Pentax models like the Espio Mini/UC-1, of which I tried several.
Exposure and focus was always hit-and-miss; such "simple" cameras simply cannot be relied upon to always "get the shot".

FWIW a manual focus / manual exposure (with exposure meter) 35mm SLR or RF camera seems simple enough to me.
Compose, focus, set aperture and shutter speed and shoot.
There's no need to anticipate how automation may be misled and foul up the process, requiring some effort to compensate.
But I suppose others must find out for themselves, spending much money in the process...

Chris

[reh321]

For the compact they have suggested would be first, they would also need a shutter, viewfinder and entire focusing system, as well as the obvious lens and film transport.

I expect finding suppliers for some of those components that would have been ordered complete in the past will be tricky...

For the SLR, I expect they will also need to figure out a way to operate the camera using a completely separate set of components from the K1 (or K3iii).
While much of that can be shared among the digital cameras, that's not going to be the case for a film SLR.
In the absence of a screen, for example, how do you run all that stuff?
And would the same set of control circuitry even be sensible? would a new set of internals be worth it in the volumes they are planning?

I'm sure they are considering all that, but it will be complicated.

It would be interesting if Ricoh ended up building much of the next Leica film camera if they were the only ones left with the expertise... like Cosina and the FM10 a few years back...

-Eric

I’m not convinced that a SLR would would be unable to take the entire mirror/prism/shutter system from the K-1.

Of course, for the simple compact camera, they would have to provide all the parts, but from my past experience, things like viewfinder could be very simple. Looking at my old film lenses, at around 45-50mm, holding the aperture to around F/11, would put everything around 5 - infinity “in focus”. Not making the lens variable in F-stop / focus would definitely simplify the whole project. I see that ‘Copal’ may no longer be making shutters, but there are several shutter manufacturers in Japan, so I suspect that they could use some ‘off the shelf’ components {a goal when I worked for a US defense contractor}.

added: rangefinder cameras have aide to help with focusing. I’m not sure how complicated it would be to construct one, but I wouldn’t expect the Pentax crew to have the needed experience. Minox’s 35mm camera seems to expect the user to just guess if it is a short distance. Pentax could avoid this by simply using a small aperture opening. In the late 1970’s I had a ‘110’ camera that had no focus arrangement, and it worked OK. Later, I had an Olympus “Infinity”, and the ‘electric eye’ did a good job of selecting the right shutter speed for the given film speed.

[richard0170]

If this is in reference to a potential new Pentax "simple" film camera I do realize that I'm not among the target demographic.

However I must say that every 35mm point & shoot I ever tried did not fail to disappoint in one way or another.
That includes "better" Pentax models like the Espio Mini/UC-1, of which I tried several.
Exposure and focus was always hit-and-miss; such "simple" cameras simply cannot be relied upon to always "get the shot".

FWIW a manual focus / manual exposure (with exposure meter) 35mm SLR or RF camera seems simple enough to me.
Compose, focus, set aperture and shutter speed and shoot.
There's no need to anticipate how automation may be misled and foul up the process, requiring some effort to compensate.
But I suppose others must find out for themselves, spending much money in the process...

Chris

Well I never had any problem with my Yashica T5, Olymus Mju II or Ricoh GR1 with regard to either AF or metering. IQ was spot on for all of them.

[TwoUptons]

I’m not convinced that a SLR would would be unable to take the entire mirror/prism/shutter system from the K-1.

Of course, for the simple compact camera, they would have to provide all the parts, but from my past experience, things like viewfinder could be very simple. Looking at my old film lenses, at around 45-50mm, holding the aperture to around F/11, would put everything around 5 - infinity “in focus”. Not making the lens variable in F-stop / focus would definitely simplify the whole project. I see that ‘Copal’ may no longer be making shutters, but there are several shutter manufacturers in Japan, so I suspect that they could use some ‘off the shelf’ components {a goal when I worked for a US defense contractor}.

added: rangefinder cameras have aide to help with focusing. I’m not sure how complicated it would be to construct one, but I wouldn’t expect the Pentax crew to have the needed experience. Minox’s 35mm camera seems to expect the user to just guess if it is a short distance. Pentax could avoid this by simply using a small aperture opening. In the late 1970’s I had a ‘110’ camera that had no focus arrangement, and it worked OK. Later, I had an Olympus “Infinity”, and the ‘electric eye’ did a good job of selecting the right shutter speed for the given film speed.

Yes, actually, the prism, mirror, and shutter from the K1 probably could all be common for a film SLR, though I was thinking more of the things that run the shutter and mirror (apologies for not being clear at all when I wrote that).

All the electronic controls would likely need to be different to accommodate a different scheme for changing settings and a lack of an imaging pipeline... (why pay for processing you can't use?), so would the smart thing be to use new circuitry (and hopefully less power) or keep the old stuff and turn most of it off? I suspect the former will end up being the smart choice.

I really hope the Pentax solution for the compact is not "focus free". Autofocus, rangefinder, or zone focusing are all vastly better alternatives, especially with a nice lens with a decent opening. And I would hope for a reasonable range of shutter speeds and apertures, unlike a lot of older film compacts (one shutter speed and a couple of fixed apertures) or digital compacts (one aperture and a couple of shutter speeds).

If Ricoh decides the Pentax compact will be a film version of the recent (and apparently terrible) Yashica reincarnation, I doubt many people will buy it. After all, Kodak already sells that in half-frame...

-Eric

[BandeauRouge]

For the compact they have suggested would be first, they would also need a shutter, viewfinder and entire focusing system, as well as the obvious lens and film transport.

I expect finding suppliers for some of those components that would have been ordered complete in the past will be tricky...

For the SLR, I expect they will also need to figure out a way to operate the camera using a completely separate set of components from the K1 (or K3iii).
While much of that can be shared among the digital cameras, that's not going to be the case for a film SLR.
In the absence of a screen, for example, how do you run all that stuff?
And would the same set of control circuitry even be sensible? would a new set of internals be worth it in the volumes they are planning?

I'm sure they are considering all that, but it will be complicated.

It would be interesting if Ricoh ended up building much of the next Leica film camera if they were the only ones left with the expertise... like Cosina and the FM10 a few years back...

-Eric

in order to REDUCE cost and budget impact, the use of existing components is CRITICAL to the creation of a normal 35mm film camera..

thus using the shutter mechanism of any existing digital camera works... they DO have mechanical modes.. that are actually more then needed for film.... id hate to see what happens with a f1.4 50mm lens with a shutter speed of 1/6000 selected...

The whole operation is ass backwards... they HAVE the engineering knowledge... the guys who created all of the film cameras that made Pentax a name.. they have the engineering drawings for each of those cameras, lenses,, and most of all they would still have the engineering drawings for any prototype ideas that werent do able back in the day..

SO instead of wasting time with a point and shoot camera to "teach" young engineers how to do a film camera.. tehy actually NEED to start production of a simple film camera from the good old days.. and use that to teach the new kids in engineering how to do it.