Fixing Times

Venturi · 05-03-2009, 10:30 AM

If you look long or hard enough on the interwebs you'll see almost as many opinions on fixing times as there are people typing about it. And it is causing me to wonder just how crucial the timing is. Do you pay a penalty for "over fixing" your film?

I'm "fixin" to process a couple rolls of Neopan 400 today and the spec sheet says 3-5 min for rapid fixer and 10 min for "normal" fixer. I'm using Kodafix - would it screw up the film if I left it in the fixer for say 8min vs 5min? Being an acid wash process can over-fixing damage the exposed image?

Thanks!

Wheatfield · 05-03-2009, 10:55 AM

Fix for twice the clearing time.
You can measure this by taking a film tongue and suberging a half inck or so of it into the fixer for a half minute and then submerging another half inch or so. When the two sections look the same, you have your clearing time.
Double it and you're there.
This takes fixer exhaustion into account, so is good for tracking the viability of the fixer.
You want to discard it when the clearing time has doubled from the fresh solution time.
Overfixing can start to strip off image forming fixer, so you do want to use care with your times.

Venturi · 05-03-2009, 07:12 PM

Thanks for the clarification.

I do have a question on that leader test though... Do you use a developed or undeveloped leader? I've seen that test mentioned but never quite understood. (and yeah, I need to get a book or two and read up more... )

Wheatfield · 05-03-2009, 10:03 PM

Originally posted by Venturi

Thanks for the clarification.

I do have a question on that leader test though... Do you use a developed or undeveloped leader? I've seen that test mentioned but never quite understood. (and yeah, I need to get a book or two and read up more... )

Undeveloped. If it's developed, it won't clear.
Try it the way I described it. I think if you see it once, you'll know.

Venturi · 05-03-2009, 10:50 PM

Ha! Very cool.

Just did the test and it came out to 3min flat with fresh Kodafix and NP400. So, based on my reading so far I should do the same test each time I re-use the fixer and when the time doubles (6min) it's time to toss the fixer and mix fresh. I've just been tossing it after each use up to now.

Wheatfield · 05-04-2009, 06:35 AM

Originally posted by Venturi

Ha! Very cool.

Just did the test and it came out to 3min flat with fresh Kodafix and NP400. So, based on my reading so far I should do the same test each time I re-use the fixer and when the time doubles (6min) it's time to toss the fixer and mix fresh. I've just been tossing it after each use up to now.

Exactly. Remember that some films will fix slower than others too. I check my fixing time while the film is in the developer. It gives me something to do while I watch the drum spin around.

Cosmo · 05-04-2009, 06:49 AM

I fix for 5 min. Does the job fine.

Wheatfield · 05-04-2009, 07:57 AM

Originally posted by Cosmo

I fix for 5 min. Does the job fine.

What film, what fixer. Comments like this are worse than useless because they don't give up any information that can be used.
What if the film/fixer combination the OP uses requires a 10 minute fixing time?
He follows your little bit of non info and buggers his film's archivability with retained silver.
What if he is using a strong rapid fix and a thin emulsion film that only needs a 2 minute fixing time? He's then spending 3 minutes burning his images off the base.
If you have advice, give it, but have the smarts to not be dangerous about it.

Venturi · 05-04-2009, 01:21 PM

Appreciate the help.

On a related note, is there a similar test for developer? Is it a PH level type of thing when they expire?

Cosmo · 05-04-2009, 01:38 PM

Originally posted by Wheatfield

What film, what fixer. Comments like this are worse than useless because they don't give up any information that can be used.
What if the film/fixer combination the OP uses requires a 10 minute fixing time?
He follows your little bit of non info and buggers his film's archivability with retained silver.
What if he is using a strong rapid fix and a thin emulsion film that only needs a 2 minute fixing time? He's then spending 3 minutes burning his images off the base.
If you have advice, give it, but have the smarts to not be dangerous about it.

Sorry, that really was a useless post.

Ilfostop. All film. I shoot Ilford.

Wheatfield · 05-04-2009, 01:50 PM

Originally posted by Cosmo

Sorry, that really was a useless post.

Ilfostop. All film. I shoot Ilford.

Thats fine, I made a bitchy reply.
You mean IlfoFix, right?

Venturi · 05-04-2009, 02:20 PM

Coupla old ladies you two are...

Here's some samples from last nights processing.
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/582486-post448.html

05-03-2009, 10:30 AM	#1
Venturi Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Tulsa, OK Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,636	Fixing Times If you look long or hard enough on the interwebs you'll see almost as many opinions on fixing times as there are people typing about it. And it is causing me to wonder just how crucial the timing is. Do you pay a penalty for "over fixing" your film? I'm "fixin" to process a couple rolls of Neopan 400 today and the spec sheet says 3-5 min for rapid fixer and 10 min for "normal" fixer. I'm using Kodafix - would it screw up the film if I left it in the fixer for say 8min vs 5min? Being an acid wash process can over-fixing damage the exposed image? Thanks!

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05-03-2009, 10:55 AM	#2
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,975	Fix for twice the clearing time. You can measure this by taking a film tongue and suberging a half inck or so of it into the fixer for a half minute and then submerging another half inch or so. When the two sections look the same, you have your clearing time. Double it and you're there. This takes fixer exhaustion into account, so is good for tracking the viability of the fixer. You want to discard it when the clearing time has doubled from the fresh solution time. Overfixing can start to strip off image forming fixer, so you do want to use care with your times.

05-03-2009, 07:12 PM	#3
Venturi Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Tulsa, OK Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,636 Original Poster	Thanks for the clarification. I do have a question on that leader test though... Do you use a developed or undeveloped leader? I've seen that test mentioned but never quite understood. (and yeah, I need to get a book or two and read up more... )

05-03-2009, 10:03 PM	#4
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,975	Originally posted by Venturi Thanks for the clarification. I do have a question on that leader test though... Do you use a developed or undeveloped leader? I've seen that test mentioned but never quite understood. (and yeah, I need to get a book or two and read up more... ) Undeveloped. If it's developed, it won't clear. Try it the way I described it. I think if you see it once, you'll know.

05-03-2009, 10:50 PM	#5
Venturi Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Tulsa, OK Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,636 Original Poster	Ha! Very cool. Just did the test and it came out to 3min flat with fresh Kodafix and NP400. So, based on my reading so far I should do the same test each time I re-use the fixer and when the time doubles (6min) it's time to toss the fixer and mix fresh. I've just been tossing it after each use up to now.

05-04-2009, 06:35 AM	#6
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,975	Originally posted by Venturi Ha! Very cool. Just did the test and it came out to 3min flat with fresh Kodafix and NP400. So, based on my reading so far I should do the same test each time I re-use the fixer and when the time doubles (6min) it's time to toss the fixer and mix fresh. I've just been tossing it after each use up to now. Exactly. Remember that some films will fix slower than others too. I check my fixing time while the film is in the developer. It gives me something to do while I watch the drum spin around.

05-04-2009, 06:49 AM	#7
Cosmo Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 488	I fix for 5 min. Does the job fine.

05-04-2009, 07:57 AM	#8
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,975	Originally posted by Cosmo I fix for 5 min. Does the job fine. What film, what fixer. Comments like this are worse than useless because they don't give up any information that can be used. What if the film/fixer combination the OP uses requires a 10 minute fixing time? He follows your little bit of non info and buggers his film's archivability with retained silver. What if he is using a strong rapid fix and a thin emulsion film that only needs a 2 minute fixing time? He's then spending 3 minutes burning his images off the base. If you have advice, give it, but have the smarts to not be dangerous about it.

05-04-2009, 01:21 PM	#9
Venturi Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Tulsa, OK Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,636 Original Poster	Appreciate the help. On a related note, is there a similar test for developer? Is it a PH level type of thing when they expire?

05-04-2009, 01:38 PM	#10
Cosmo Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 488	Originally posted by Wheatfield What film, what fixer. Comments like this are worse than useless because they don't give up any information that can be used. What if the film/fixer combination the OP uses requires a 10 minute fixing time? He follows your little bit of non info and buggers his film's archivability with retained silver. What if he is using a strong rapid fix and a thin emulsion film that only needs a 2 minute fixing time? He's then spending 3 minutes burning his images off the base. If you have advice, give it, but have the smarts to not be dangerous about it. Sorry, that really was a useless post. Ilfostop. All film. I shoot Ilford.

05-04-2009, 01:50 PM	#11
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,975	Originally posted by Cosmo Sorry, that really was a useless post. Ilfostop. All film. I shoot Ilford. Thats fine, I made a bitchy reply. You mean IlfoFix, right?

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05-04-2009, 02:20 PM	#12
Venturi Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Tulsa, OK Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,636 Original Poster	Coupla old ladies you two are... Here's some samples from last nights processing. https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/582486-post448.html