Film rewind problem

MeFirstO · 07-11-2009, 02:53 AM

Hello everyone!

Yesterday I got my ME Super and I immediately put a roll of film in it, in order to test it. Everything looked perfect... until the end, when I couldn't wind back the film. I'm following precisely the steps in the manual (depress the rewind button, then turn the crank as indicated), but there's no tension at all in the crank, like there is no film at all in the camera.

Do you guys and girls have an idea how could I fix the problem?

Thanks a lot,
Alex.

Nesster · 07-11-2009, 05:28 AM

First - when you loaded the film, are you sure it fed through? The rewind crank will rotate as you wind the film between shots, when the film's advancing. Also, when you started to rewind, was there a tiny bit of resistance first, and then none? This would also mean not much film was out of the canister.

Second - when you use the rewind crank, you are leaving it down so it engages the film canister? (of course, lifting it would open the back, but I have to check

)

Third - when you reached the end of the roll, did you not notice and kept winding... which might break the film.

I've done all three in one way or another. The first is the most likely - wind the leader till you see the film sprokets engage the film... and in the beginning, waste a bit, wind once more to make sure the film's being taken into the take up spool.

MeFirstO · 07-11-2009, 06:13 AM

Hey there Nesster, thanks for your help!

First - when I loaded the film, everything seemed ok. Although I didn't pay attention whether the crank rotates or not, the counter went on as if everything was perfect. Yet when I started to rewind, there was no resistance at all - neither at first turn or afterwards.

Second - yes, I leave the crank down when rewinding clockwise, just as the user manual says.

Third - well, i kept my eye on the counter and tried to rewind precisely after the 36th shot. It's hard to believe the film broke - there was no sound, no shake - nothing that could suggest this.

Finally - there must be something I did wrong and wasn't even aware of it. I understand it is rather unusual for the ME Supers to encounter this kind of problems.

Just as I told to the seller few minutes ago (wow! he's really supportive), I think I'll go the tough way - go into a dark room, open the camera's film door, and see if the crank engages / rewinds the film. If there is any obvious problem, I'll try to fix it, then close the door and rewind the usual way. If not, I'll sacrifice the film roll, put another one in, and see if everything's fine in the end.

I'm soooo sorry about this, because the ME Super is just the perfect camera. I felt in love with it the second I opened the box and took it into my hands

)

Originally posted by Nesster

First - when you loaded the film, are you sure it fed through? The rewind crank will rotate as you wind the film between shots, when the film's advancing. Also, when you started to rewind, was there a tiny bit of resistance first, and then none? This would also mean not much film was out of the canister.

Second - when you use the rewind crank, you are leaving it down so it engages the film canister? (of course, lifting it would open the back, but I have to check

)

Third - when you reached the end of the roll, did you not notice and kept winding... which might break the film.

I've done all three in one way or another. The first is the most likely - wind the leader till you see the film sprokets engage the film... and in the beginning, waste a bit, wind once more to make sure the film's being taken into the take up spool.

MeFirstO · 07-11-2009, 06:47 AM

update: i opened the film door in almost complete dark and the film was completely rewind. i just don't understand. i never felt any tension in the crank, nor the film rewind indicator flickered. how / when could that happen? so... problem solved by itself, i guess. sorry if i sounded idiotic.

geauxpez · 07-11-2009, 07:06 AM

Sounds like your film didn't engage when it was loaded...the tab on the right hand spool didn't catch enough and the film never advanced. The film counter doesn't count frames of film, but rather how many times the advance lever was used regardless of the presence or lack of film.

Next step -- process the roll just to be sure.

Originally posted by MeFirstO

update: i opened the film door in almost complete dark and the film was completely rewind. i just don't understand. i never felt any tension in the crank, nor the film rewind indicator flickered. how / when could that happen? so... problem solved by itself, i guess. sorry if i sounded idiotic.

MeFirstO · 07-11-2009, 07:13 AM

well that was my first thought too, but i closed the door only after i was sure the spool engaged the film. however, when i opened the door, there was not a single milimeter of film out of the canister, so it must have been winded at some time. of course, the best answer will come when i'll have the film developed.

thanks a lot and sorry if i wasted your time.

k100d · 07-11-2009, 07:18 AM

u should have the roll tested to see if it was actually developed. save a few bucks
the first time i used the ME Super, i did not stick the film into those what plastic things properly and the film never took up.

make sure before closing the back, to advance a few frames to make sure the take up is ok, and as you advance, check the little window with the red lines flickers when you advance the film.

Nesster · 07-11-2009, 10:09 AM

Originally posted by MeFirstO

well that was my first thought too, but i closed the door only after i was sure the spool engaged the film.

however, when i opened the door, there was not a single milimeter of film out of the canister, so it must have been winded at some time.

thanks a lot and sorry if i wasted your time.

First, this isn't a waste of time, this is the crux of the mystery of film shooting

The reason no film was left out was that you did rewind successfully - but only the couple of inches you'd pulled out to begin with. This is probably why you didn't feel a big difference in resistance - when you're reeling the film from the take up spool, you feel more resistance and probably hear noises too.

I've done this so many times, but learned to recognize when I do... wind the film till both top and bottom sprockets are engaged at which point the film leader probably has gone nearly all the way around the take up spool. Then close the back. Then, look at the telltale red lines and the rewind crank as you wind to the next frames. If they don't move, open the back and start again.

Don't worry, it's only film.

MeFirstO · 07-11-2009, 02:46 PM

well nesster, that must be the best explanation. however, i'll found out what happened only on monday or thursday, 'coz the lab is closed during the weekend. and you're right... it's only film!

titrisol · 07-11-2009, 11:47 PM

It happens to all of us, no matter how experienced
The little round window n the MESuper is great, after you load the film, while you are winding the 1st frames (00 and 0) make sure it rotates/flicker. That si an indicator that you have loaded the film correctl;y
Otherwise, it may just be that you need to get used to rewinding. Sometimes is good to listen to the sound of film rewinding

MeFirstO · 07-12-2009, 10:40 PM

Originally posted by titrisol

It happens to all of us, no matter how experienced
The little round window n the MESuper is great, after you load the film, while you are winding the 1st frames (00 and 0) make sure it rotates/flicker. That si an indicator that you have loaded the film correctl;y
Otherwise, it may just be that you need to get used to rewinding. Sometimes is good to listen to the sound of film rewinding

yeah, i figured it now =)) thanks!

Bruiser · 07-13-2009, 03:22 PM

Look at the positive side. You have a brand new roll of film!

**pixelsaurus** · 07-13-2009, 03:44 PM

When engaging the film on the takeup spool, I always leave the rewind crank unfolded. Easier to tell if the film has slipped off the spool as the rotation, or lack of it, is immediately obvious. Like most, I learned this the hard way. Every shot was going to be a winner.

MeFirstO · 07-14-2009, 12:49 AM

Originally posted by Bruiser

Look at the positive side. You have a brand new roll of film!

sure i am, but how could i pull outside the end of it? it's all inside now

i guess i'll ask the lab guy pull it out with that neat little tool he has.

Originally posted by pixelsaurus

When engaging the film on the takeup spool, I always leave the rewind crank unfolded. Easier to tell if the film has slipped off the spool as the rotation, or lack of it, is immediately obvious. Like most, I learned this the hard way. Every shot was going to be a winner.

lol... it seems i learned it the medium-hard way. i didn't lose any significant shots, i've only lost some self respect.

thank you for your support, guys!

geauxpez · 07-14-2009, 10:11 AM

Originally posted by MeFirstO

lol... it seems i learned it the medium-hard way. i didn't lose any significant shots, i've only lost some self respect.

Same way I learned on my dad's AE1 a couple of decades ago. Welcome to the club.

07-11-2009, 02:53 AM	#1
MeFirstO Inactive Account Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: 300133, Romania Posts: 104	Film rewind problem Hello everyone! Yesterday I got my ME Super and I immediately put a roll of film in it, in order to test it. Everything looked perfect... until the end, when I couldn't wind back the film. I'm following precisely the steps in the manual (depress the rewind button, then turn the crank as indicated), but there's no tension at all in the crank, like there is no film at all in the camera. Do you guys and girls have an idea how could I fix the problem? Thanks a lot, Alex.

07-13-2009, 03:44 PM	#13
pixelsaurus Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Te Kuiti, NZ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 986	When engaging the film on the takeup spool, I always leave the rewind crank unfolded. Easier to tell if the film has slipped off the spool as the rotation, or lack of it, is immediately obvious. Like most, I learned this the hard way. Every shot was going to be a winner. Last edited by pixelsaurus; 07-13-2009 at 03:45 PM. Reason: spelng mistak

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07-11-2009, 05:28 AM	#2
Nesster Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: NJ USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 13,072	First - when you loaded the film, are you sure it fed through? The rewind crank will rotate as you wind the film between shots, when the film's advancing. Also, when you started to rewind, was there a tiny bit of resistance first, and then none? This would also mean not much film was out of the canister. Second - when you use the rewind crank, you are leaving it down so it engages the film canister? (of course, lifting it would open the back, but I have to check ) Third - when you reached the end of the roll, did you not notice and kept winding... which might break the film. I've done all three in one way or another. The first is the most likely - wind the leader till you see the film sprokets engage the film... and in the beginning, waste a bit, wind once more to make sure the film's being taken into the take up spool.

07-11-2009, 06:13 AM	#3
MeFirstO Inactive Account Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: 300133, Romania Posts: 104 Original Poster	Hey there Nesster, thanks for your help! First - when I loaded the film, everything seemed ok. Although I didn't pay attention whether the crank rotates or not, the counter went on as if everything was perfect. Yet when I started to rewind, there was no resistance at all - neither at first turn or afterwards. Second - yes, I leave the crank down when rewinding clockwise, just as the user manual says. Third - well, i kept my eye on the counter and tried to rewind precisely after the 36th shot. It's hard to believe the film broke - there was no sound, no shake - nothing that could suggest this. Finally - there must be something I did wrong and wasn't even aware of it. I understand it is rather unusual for the ME Supers to encounter this kind of problems. Just as I told to the seller few minutes ago (wow! he's really supportive), I think I'll go the tough way - go into a dark room, open the camera's film door, and see if the crank engages / rewinds the film. If there is any obvious problem, I'll try to fix it, then close the door and rewind the usual way. If not, I'll sacrifice the film roll, put another one in, and see if everything's fine in the end. I'm soooo sorry about this, because the ME Super is just the perfect camera. I felt in love with it the second I opened the box and took it into my hands ) Originally posted by Nesster First - when you loaded the film, are you sure it fed through? The rewind crank will rotate as you wind the film between shots, when the film's advancing. Also, when you started to rewind, was there a tiny bit of resistance first, and then none? This would also mean not much film was out of the canister. Second - when you use the rewind crank, you are leaving it down so it engages the film canister? (of course, lifting it would open the back, but I have to check ) Third - when you reached the end of the roll, did you not notice and kept winding... which might break the film. I've done all three in one way or another. The first is the most likely - wind the leader till you see the film sprokets engage the film... and in the beginning, waste a bit, wind once more to make sure the film's being taken into the take up spool.

07-11-2009, 06:47 AM	#4
MeFirstO Inactive Account Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: 300133, Romania Posts: 104 Original Poster	update: i opened the film door in almost complete dark and the film was completely rewind. i just don't understand. i never felt any tension in the crank, nor the film rewind indicator flickered. how / when could that happen? so... problem solved by itself, i guess. sorry if i sounded idiotic.

07-11-2009, 07:06 AM	#5
geauxpez Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Atlanta Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,196	Sounds like your film didn't engage when it was loaded...the tab on the right hand spool didn't catch enough and the film never advanced. The film counter doesn't count frames of film, but rather how many times the advance lever was used regardless of the presence or lack of film. Next step -- process the roll just to be sure. Originally posted by MeFirstO update: i opened the film door in almost complete dark and the film was completely rewind. i just don't understand. i never felt any tension in the crank, nor the film rewind indicator flickered. how / when could that happen? so... problem solved by itself, i guess. sorry if i sounded idiotic.

07-11-2009, 07:13 AM	#6
MeFirstO Inactive Account Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: 300133, Romania Posts: 104 Original Poster	well that was my first thought too, but i closed the door only after i was sure the spool engaged the film. however, when i opened the door, there was not a single milimeter of film out of the canister, so it must have been winded at some time. of course, the best answer will come when i'll have the film developed. thanks a lot and sorry if i wasted your time.

07-11-2009, 07:18 AM	#7
k100d Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Toronto Posts: 3,911	u should have the roll tested to see if it was actually developed. save a few bucks the first time i used the ME Super, i did not stick the film into those what plastic things properly and the film never took up. make sure before closing the back, to advance a few frames to make sure the take up is ok, and as you advance, check the little window with the red lines flickers when you advance the film.

07-11-2009, 10:09 AM	#8
Nesster Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: NJ USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 13,072	Originally posted by MeFirstO well that was my first thought too, but i closed the door only after i was sure the spool engaged the film. however, when i opened the door, there was not a single milimeter of film out of the canister, so it must have been winded at some time. thanks a lot and sorry if i wasted your time. First, this isn't a waste of time, this is the crux of the mystery of film shooting The reason no film was left out was that you did rewind successfully - but only the couple of inches you'd pulled out to begin with. This is probably why you didn't feel a big difference in resistance - when you're reeling the film from the take up spool, you feel more resistance and probably hear noises too. I've done this so many times, but learned to recognize when I do... wind the film till both top and bottom sprockets are engaged at which point the film leader probably has gone nearly all the way around the take up spool. Then close the back. Then, look at the telltale red lines and the rewind crank as you wind to the next frames. If they don't move, open the back and start again. Don't worry, it's only film.

07-11-2009, 02:46 PM	#9
MeFirstO Inactive Account Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: 300133, Romania Posts: 104 Original Poster	well nesster, that must be the best explanation. however, i'll found out what happened only on monday or thursday, 'coz the lab is closed during the weekend. and you're right... it's only film!

07-11-2009, 11:47 PM	#10
titrisol Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: In the most populated state... state of denial Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,854	It happens to all of us, no matter how experienced The little round window n the MESuper is great, after you load the film, while you are winding the 1st frames (00 and 0) make sure it rotates/flicker. That si an indicator that you have loaded the film correctl;y Otherwise, it may just be that you need to get used to rewinding. Sometimes is good to listen to the sound of film rewinding

07-12-2009, 10:40 PM	#11
MeFirstO Inactive Account Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: 300133, Romania Posts: 104 Original Poster	Originally posted by titrisol It happens to all of us, no matter how experienced The little round window n the MESuper is great, after you load the film, while you are winding the 1st frames (00 and 0) make sure it rotates/flicker. That si an indicator that you have loaded the film correctl;y Otherwise, it may just be that you need to get used to rewinding. Sometimes is good to listen to the sound of film rewinding yeah, i figured it now =)) thanks!

07-13-2009, 03:22 PM	#12
Bruiser New Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Buenos Aires Posts: 22	Look at the positive side. You have a brand new roll of film!

07-14-2009, 12:49 AM	#14
MeFirstO Inactive Account Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: 300133, Romania Posts: 104 Original Poster	Originally posted by Bruiser Look at the positive side. You have a brand new roll of film! sure i am, but how could i pull outside the end of it? it's all inside now i guess i'll ask the lab guy pull it out with that neat little tool he has. Originally posted by pixelsaurus When engaging the film on the takeup spool, I always leave the rewind crank unfolded. Easier to tell if the film has slipped off the spool as the rotation, or lack of it, is immediately obvious. Like most, I learned this the hard way. Every shot was going to be a winner. lol... it seems i learned it the medium-hard way. i didn't lose any significant shots, i've only lost some self respect. thank you for your support, guys!

07-14-2009, 10:11 AM	#15
geauxpez Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Atlanta Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,196	Originally posted by MeFirstO lol... it seems i learned it the medium-hard way. i didn't lose any significant shots, i've only lost some self respect. Same way I learned on my dad's AE1 a couple of decades ago. Welcome to the club.