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06-02-2011, 04:30 PM   #1
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Any other Pentax besides the LX . . .

. . . incorporate IDM (Integrated Direct Metering) -> http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/hardwares/classics/pentaxlx/metering/metering.htm

I have a few bodies that have aperture priority auto exposure - ES II, K2, ME Super, Super Program and of course the LX but it seems the LX is the only one that has this. Of course I don't have anything newer and wondered if there are other more modern bodies that act like the LX as follows:
1. The LX will keep the shutter open for as long as it takes to attain "correct" exposure.
2. The LX will continually monitor the scene after the shutter has tripped and change exposure accordingly - up or down, to attain "correct" exposure.

All the other bodies I have act differently in that none of these will even meter for more then seconds while I have successfully metered tens of minutes with the LX.

06-02-2011, 05:02 PM   #2
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Olympus OM2 and some of the other OMs... I think Minolta X700... After the era of these I stopped paying attention; there may be some plastic Pentax that does that.
06-03-2011, 12:59 AM   #3
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It's a bummer that off the film metering (as it would be generically known) didn't really catch on too much. I would love this feature in a camera that didn't come with the maintenance costs of the LX. Generally speaking, I guess I'd rather spend time improving my metering skills than worrying about the costs of servicing an LX. And, if I were going the OM route, I'd rather have the 3/4 w/ spot meter (and memory) than the quick decision-making of an otf. In the end, with an LX you're still looking at center-weighted, and it's still probably not quite as smart as the photographer
06-03-2011, 02:04 AM   #4
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The greatest advantage of the LX Meter system is it's EV range. Very few in camera and not that many hand held meters go down to -6.5EV.

Kim

06-03-2011, 07:42 AM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kim C Quote
The greatest advantage of the LX Meter system is it's EV range. Very few in camera and not that many hand held meters go down to -6.5EV.

Kim
It is my understanding that the meter really doesn't have that sensitivity. I was told that the -6.5 EV is based on the maximum length of exposure using off-the-film metering.


Steve
06-03-2011, 09:59 AM   #6
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You are quite right! Not long after I had the first LX, I had to take an aircraft to NZ and we stopped off in Singapore on the way. The view from the top of the hotel was fantastic and so I took some night shots. As I had always done in the past, I bracketed all the shots. As it turned out I shouldn't have bothered. The LX had given the right exposure everytime!

Another time I was way up North and it was the same for some photos of the Northern lights. Some of these exposures were nearly a minute but the LX coped with it in Auto. There is no way I could have done that even with my electronic Gossen meter!

Kim

QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
It is my understanding that the meter really doesn't have that sensitivity. I was told that the -6.5 EV is based on the maximum length of exposure using off-the-film metering.


Steve
06-03-2011, 10:39 AM   #7
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Nesster, In my research, I found only the OM2/4 to work similarly and I give the edge to the OM's as it has spot metering. Interesting that Pentax didn't implement this feature that they developed with the prototype Spotmatic. I have not found any Minolta - including the X700, to hold the shutter open for more than 30 seconds and of course it doesn't change if the scene lighting changes.

06-03-2011, 10:42 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by brh Quote
In the end, with an LX you're still looking at center-weighted, and it's still probably not quite as smart as the photographer
But with enough experience, the photog will learn how to use what the camera's meter suggests . . .
06-03-2011, 10:48 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kim C Quote
You are quite right! Not long after I had the first LX, I had to take an aircraft to NZ and we stopped off in Singapore on the way. The view from the top of the hotel was fantastic and so I took some night shots. As I had always done in the past, I bracketed all the shots. As it turned out I shouldn't have bothered. The LX had given the right exposure everytime!
Kim
In aperture priority auto exposure mode, my properly functioning LX has given me "correctly" exposed film in the tens of minutes of exposure time. The OTF flash also gives predictably perfect results too.

I find it curious that Pentax did not incorporate this functionality in any other cameras.
06-03-2011, 11:45 AM   #10
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They put the sensor in the Super A for TTL flash but went back to metering in the prism !

The other huge advantage was that the prism now does does not depend on metering off the screen so you can use any screen without affecting the meter.

Also great for tripod/macro work as you don't have to blank the finder.

Kim

QuoteOriginally posted by LesDMess Quote
In aperture priority auto exposure mode, my properly functioning LX has given me "correctly" exposed film in the tens of minutes of exposure time. The OTF flash also gives predictably perfect results too.

I find it curious that Pentax did not incorporate this functionality in any other cameras.
06-03-2011, 12:55 PM   #11
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A side question on the LX and the secondary mirror / partially transparent main mirror: on the Oly OM2s, I found that to be the weak point in the system, in that it made the view finder darker than with the regular OM2, say. To the point I ended up installing a fancy Beattie after market bright screen to help. Is that an issue with the LX?
06-03-2011, 01:09 PM   #12
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I certainly haven't found it a problem. To me the finder even with the normal range of screens is brighter as any of my other Pentax bodies and probably on a par with some of the Fuji's. As a matter of interest, you can use the MX screens in the LX but not the other way round. The LX screens are generally brighter and affect the meter system in the MX.

Pentax also introduced 3 extra bright screens which are the equal of the Beattie screens with the LX2000 and these were available as spare parts. They are difficult to find now but well worth it. They are the "60" series ones

Kim

QuoteOriginally posted by Nesster Quote
A side question on the LX and the secondary mirror / partially transparent main mirror: on the Oly OM2s, I found that to be the weak point in the system, in that it made the view finder darker than with the regular OM2, say. To the point I ended up installing a fancy Beattie after market bright screen to help. Is that an issue with the LX?
06-03-2011, 09:11 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by LesDMess Quote
But with enough experience, the photog will learn how to use what the camera's meter suggests . . .
Agreed! Though, if you're talking about having the LX watch the film and meter on-the-fly, there isn't much suggestion going on, eh? It's happening!

Side note, while it's fascinating that the LX can accurately meter to ten minutes and so on, doesn't reciprocity failure make it a bit of a moot point? Or do you just shoot nothing but Acros?
06-03-2011, 09:40 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by brh Quote
Side note, while it's fascinating that the LX can accurately meter to ten minutes and so on, doesn't reciprocity failure make it a bit of a moot point? Or do you just shoot nothing but Acros?
As an optimist, I like to look at it as reciprocity characteristic as there is no way of knowing what that looks like for every/any film until you try it . . .

BTW, I stated tens of minutes. I just looked at some of my test results and I noted the exposure time to be past an hour but less then an hour and a half. I can't be more precise as I haven't figured out a way for the camera to let me know the exposure cycle is complete rather then just keep checking on it. Appreciate any suggestions for this if you have any ideas.
06-03-2011, 11:32 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by LesDMess Quote
BTW, I stated tens of minutes.
My apologies, the thought came to me after I had read through 100% of the thread, and forgotten 95% :P In my experiences, though, I start recalculating for reciprocity after, say, a second…*At that point, thirty seconds, a minute, ten minutes, an hour, ten hours…*It's all scary to me! Honestly, though, if I'm going to be doing any lengthy exposures in any camera's auto mode, I don't load up anything but Acros… I guess I should step out of that comfort zone…
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