pro-lab scans better than drugstore scans?

drumhead · 08-17-2011, 06:41 PM

I'm relatively new to film photography and am trying to figure out how to best acquire decent quality hi-res digital scans without breaking the bank. Are some shops better than others regarding photoscans (i.e. "picture CD") with film development? Should I expect better results from a pro shop vs drugstore or Walmart? Or is the only option to buy a scanner and do it myself? I'd be curious as to what kind of hybrid workflow you guys/gals are using?

stevebrot · 08-17-2011, 07:45 PM

Most of the processing labs use similar technologies for their "scans". They use the same device for making prints from negatives. The "scan" is a digital photo of the negative that is then processed and written to CD. Usually this is done with default settings for exposure, contrast, color balance, sharpening, and grain reduction. The usual result are large files with poor resolution and tons of artifact.

You can have a custom scan done, but expect the price to be relative to the time it takes to create it ($$$).

The most cost-effective route is with one of the better flatbed scanners or a mid-range dedicated film scanner. The entry ticket is about $200 USD with the value point being somewhat higher than that.

As for what I use:

Nikon Super Coolscan 5000 ED for 35mm
Epson V700 for medium and large format

I have used the V700 for 35mm, but the negatives must be FLAT to get good results. When properly dialed in, the V700 provides a good clean 2400 dpi and the appearance of somewhat more with judicious application of sharpening.

Steve

goddo31 · 08-17-2011, 08:09 PM

In my experience, scans done by a pro lab were much better than the equivalent to "drugstore" scans. But even the pro lab scans were lacking, so I bought a scanner and now do it myself. A bit more than a year on, the scanner has already paid itself off and saved me a few hundred dollars. I used to pay about $12 per roll for a basic scan at a pro lab over here.

goddo31 · 08-17-2011, 08:11 PM

Originally posted by stevebrot

...
I have used the V700 for 35mm, but the negatives must be FLAT to get good results. When properly dialed in, the V700 provides a good clean 2400 dpi and the appearance of somewhat more with judicious application of sharpening.

A definate +1 on those points.
Negative flatness is very important on the V700, which I also use.

sein06231 · 08-17-2011, 08:23 PM

How do I make the negatives totally flat on the V700?

goddo31 · 08-17-2011, 09:30 PM

Originally posted by sein06231

How do I make the negatives totally flat on the V700?

Leave them pressed under a big, heavy book for a few days!

You can also get glass inserts for the V700. I haven't tried these but they might help to 'squish' the negatives flat.

builttospill · 08-17-2011, 09:36 PM

I let the drugstores do most of my developing and scanning for around $5-7 for a 24 exp. roll. But when it's important I take the negatives to a pro lab and pay about $20 a scan per image. It's a much higher-quality scan and easy to tell the difference.

I don't do important ones often enough to make it worth buying my own scanner, (yet).

**gofour3** · 08-18-2011, 07:17 AM

Originally posted by sein06231

How do I make the negatives totally flat on the V700?

Shoot slide film and you'll never have this issue. Mounted slides are way easier to scan and will always be flat.

Phil.

tuco · 08-18-2011, 07:31 AM

Originally posted by gofour3

Shoot slide film and you'll never have this issue.

Phil.

At the expense of dynamic range which in the case of BW can be limiting.

Nesster · 08-18-2011, 07:35 AM

Also, drug stores will vary - I sometimes try a different store just to see how they do. Some scan larger than others, some have more dust, some over sharpen, etc.

**gofour3** · 08-18-2011, 02:19 PM

Originally posted by tuco

At the expense of dynamic range which in the case of BW can be limiting.

I have a solution for that, cross process b&w negative film as a positive. If I’m not in a hurry I send my b&w negative rolls to DR5 Chrome for processing. I get back mounted slides which I can happily view on my light table with my photo lupe!

I get the best of both worlds and way easier to scan!

Phil.

drumhead · 08-18-2011, 04:46 PM

Thanks for all of your comments. I'm going to take 3 rolls of Kodak Gold 100 to our local pro lab to see how their scans compare to Walmart etc. Apparently they will put multiple rolls on the same disc to minimize costs. I might look into a scanner but at the same time I'd hate to invest too much money at this point. Is film here to stay? Getting harder to buy film around here.

Nesster · 08-18-2011, 04:54 PM

Please report back to us on how the experience turns out, how much lighter your wallet turns out - and post the results too!

cali92rs · 08-18-2011, 05:12 PM

Originally posted by goddo31

A definate +1 on those points.
Negative flatness is very important on the V700, which I also use.

Isn't that the function of AntiNewtonian Ring Glass (Keeping the negative flat)?

goddo31 · 08-18-2011, 10:18 PM

Originally posted by cali92rs

Isn't that the function of AntiNewtonian Ring Glass (Keeping the negative flat)?

I believe it's Anti Newton Ring (ANR) glass.
Yes I believe the purpose of the ANR glass is to keep the negative flat and reduce any Newton Ring reflections that might occur between the surfaces.
They're not essential on the V700 though, I've never actually tried them. I just try and make sure my negatives are as flat as possible prior to scanning. With some patience this normally works out OK.

08-17-2011, 06:41 PM	#1
drumhead Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 71	pro-lab scans better than drugstore scans? I'm relatively new to film photography and am trying to figure out how to best acquire decent quality hi-res digital scans without breaking the bank. Are some shops better than others regarding photoscans (i.e. "picture CD") with film development? Should I expect better results from a pro shop vs drugstore or Walmart? Or is the only option to buy a scanner and do it myself? I'd be curious as to what kind of hybrid workflow you guys/gals are using?

08-17-2011, 07:45 PM	#2
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Most of the processing labs use similar technologies for their "scans". They use the same device for making prints from negatives. The "scan" is a digital photo of the negative that is then processed and written to CD. Usually this is done with default settings for exposure, contrast, color balance, sharpening, and grain reduction. The usual result are large files with poor resolution and tons of artifact. You can have a custom scan done, but expect the price to be relative to the time it takes to create it ($$$). The most cost-effective route is with one of the better flatbed scanners or a mid-range dedicated film scanner. The entry ticket is about $200 USD with the value point being somewhat higher than that. As for what I use: Nikon Super Coolscan 5000 ED for 35mm Epson V700 for medium and large format I have used the V700 for 35mm, but the negatives must be FLAT to get good results. When properly dialed in, the V700 provides a good clean 2400 dpi and the appearance of somewhat more with judicious application of sharpening. Steve

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08-17-2011, 08:09 PM	#3
goddo31 Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,576	In my experience, scans done by a pro lab were much better than the equivalent to "drugstore" scans. But even the pro lab scans were lacking, so I bought a scanner and now do it myself. A bit more than a year on, the scanner has already paid itself off and saved me a few hundred dollars. I used to pay about $12 per roll for a basic scan at a pro lab over here.

08-17-2011, 08:11 PM	#4
goddo31 Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,576	Originally posted by stevebrot ... I have used the V700 for 35mm, but the negatives must be FLAT to get good results. When properly dialed in, the V700 provides a good clean 2400 dpi and the appearance of somewhat more with judicious application of sharpening. A definate +1 on those points. Negative flatness is very important on the V700, which I also use.

08-17-2011, 08:23 PM	#5
sein06231 Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Little Falls, NJ USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 51	How do I make the negatives totally flat on the V700?

08-17-2011, 09:30 PM	#6
goddo31 Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,576	Originally posted by sein06231 How do I make the negatives totally flat on the V700? Leave them pressed under a big, heavy book for a few days! You can also get glass inserts for the V700. I haven't tried these but they might help to 'squish' the negatives flat.

08-17-2011, 09:36 PM	#7
builttospill Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Utah, Idaho Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,398	I let the drugstores do most of my developing and scanning for around $5-7 for a 24 exp. roll. But when it's important I take the negatives to a pro lab and pay about $20 a scan per image. It's a much higher-quality scan and easy to tell the difference. I don't do important ones often enough to make it worth buying my own scanner, (yet).

08-18-2011, 07:17 AM	#8
gofour3 Site Supporter Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 8,091	Originally posted by sein06231 How do I make the negatives totally flat on the V700? Shoot slide film and you'll never have this issue. Mounted slides are way easier to scan and will always be flat. Phil.

08-18-2011, 07:31 AM	#9
tuco Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Pugetopolis Posts: 11,026	Originally posted by gofour3 Shoot slide film and you'll never have this issue. Phil. At the expense of dynamic range which in the case of BW can be limiting.

08-18-2011, 07:35 AM	#10
Nesster Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: NJ USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 13,072	Also, drug stores will vary - I sometimes try a different store just to see how they do. Some scan larger than others, some have more dust, some over sharpen, etc.

08-18-2011, 02:19 PM	#11
gofour3 Site Supporter Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 8,091	Originally posted by tuco At the expense of dynamic range which in the case of BW can be limiting. I have a solution for that, cross process b&w negative film as a positive. If I’m not in a hurry I send my b&w negative rolls to DR5 Chrome for processing. I get back mounted slides which I can happily view on my light table with my photo lupe! I get the best of both worlds and way easier to scan! Phil.

08-18-2011, 04:46 PM	#12
drumhead Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 71 Original Poster	Thanks for all of your comments. I'm going to take 3 rolls of Kodak Gold 100 to our local pro lab to see how their scans compare to Walmart etc. Apparently they will put multiple rolls on the same disc to minimize costs. I might look into a scanner but at the same time I'd hate to invest too much money at this point. Is film here to stay? Getting harder to buy film around here.

08-18-2011, 04:54 PM	#13
Nesster Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: NJ USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 13,072	Please report back to us on how the experience turns out, how much lighter your wallet turns out - and post the results too!

08-18-2011, 05:12 PM	#14
cali92rs Veteran Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Long Beach, CA Posts: 3,354	Originally posted by goddo31 A definate +1 on those points. Negative flatness is very important on the V700, which I also use. Isn't that the function of AntiNewtonian Ring Glass (Keeping the negative flat)?

08-18-2011, 10:18 PM	#15
goddo31 Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,576	Originally posted by cali92rs Isn't that the function of AntiNewtonian Ring Glass (Keeping the negative flat)? I believe it's Anti Newton Ring (ANR) glass. Yes I believe the purpose of the ANR glass is to keep the negative flat and reduce any Newton Ring reflections that might occur between the surfaces. They're not essential on the V700 though, I've never actually tried them. I just try and make sure my negatives are as flat as possible prior to scanning. With some patience this normally works out OK.