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01-04-2013, 01:55 PM   #1411
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QuoteOriginally posted by Davidw0815 Quote
Thanks for the detailed info, Joe! I have really no experience with scanning bw negatives. It's good to know that adjusting the levels after scanning is the normal process.
Cheers,
David
You have two choices when scanning. You can use the scanning tools to adjust the contrast, sharpness, etc. Or you can scan by histogram and adjust to not clip as much as possible on either end. Scan to a ProPhoto RGB color space if you have a color managed work flow for the widest choice and 48-bit color (and hope your scanning software converts that to a gray scale) or 16 bit BW and sharpening turned off.

The scanned result may look dull, flat and not interesting. But you now have captured the full tone range on the negative ( or as much as the scanner will do). Now you have full liberty in the image editor to take the image often in different directions in terms of contrast. Try not to over sharpen ( my biggest issue) and save that for the last step on the scaled down display size.

01-04-2013, 02:11 PM   #1412
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QuoteOriginally posted by tuco Quote
Or you can scan by histogram and adjust to not clip as much as possible on either end
Could you explain how thi is done please?

What settings for sharpness would you recommend in PS?

And, finally! In PS I should just adjust contrast and not touch levels- ie to make white white and black black? Would I need to adjust Lighing in PS using this system?

John

Also I am not sure I undestand what you mean scan to a pro photo RGB Colour base?
01-04-2013, 02:53 PM   #1413
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Portrait of my son Benjamin

Hi all,

Here's a portrait I made of my son Benjamin a couple of years ago.

Shot with a Mamiya RB67, 127mm Sekor C lens, Tri-X 320 asa film, developed in D76 and scanned on a Nikon 9000.

Thanks for viewing!

Carmine
Attached Images
 
01-04-2013, 03:18 PM - 2 Likes   #1414
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More dunes. The day turned dull with almost white sky. So I thought I'd try this for better or worse. This experiment is resulting in un-even development as seen in the other shots too. It looks like more work needs to be done on the development end.





100TMX, Y2 Yellow




Last edited by tuco; 01-04-2013 at 05:50 PM. Reason: Replaced with a warm tone version
01-04-2013, 03:22 PM   #1415
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Carmine,

Excellent portrait of your son!

David, to answer your question in two ways: Firstly, in the example I gave, I used Sagelight Image Editor (very nice package I recommend - is a low-cost Photoshop replacement to some degree, even running PS plugins).

When I scan, I start with the automatic histogram adjustment, and may do a little more adjustment if necessary (for instance, if some highlights are blown, I may pull them back out by adjusting the various controls as shown below). I save as grayscale 16-bit. I've tried 48-bit color with my B&W images, but the files are bigger and I don't see any higher quality that way. I scan at 2400 dpi as that is as much resolution as the scanner can really produce (may be closer to 2000 dpi realistically), but that works for me. I go through each negative in the film holder, tweak the histogram, then start the scanning process. After scanning, I usually adjust a little further in Faststone or Sagelight while cropping and resizing. I don't sharpen at scan time because I figure that is better done later on in post processing after resizing to final size. I scan to TIFF files for better "raw" quality, and archive those TIFFs.

Here is how I set up the Epson scan software with my V500:



Here is the result I tweaked a little bit in Faststone (adjusted histogram levels, leveled, cropped, resized, sharpened after resizing):


(My granddaughters, Pentax MX, Pentax-M 40mm f2.8, Tri-X @ 1600 in Rodinal 1+100 60 minutes stand, if I remember correctly!
I missed focus on this one because it was a quick snapshot.)

-Joe-

Last edited by k0og; 01-04-2013 at 03:29 PM.
01-04-2013, 03:24 PM   #1416
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Tuco,

However you got there, it's a NICE result!

-Joe-

QuoteOriginally posted by tuco Quote
More dunes. The day turned dull with almost white sky. So I thought I'd try this for better or worse. This experiment is resulting in un-even development as seen in the other shots too. It looks like more work needs to be done on the development end.
01-04-2013, 03:32 PM   #1417
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QuoteOriginally posted by Snapper_UK Quote
Could you explain how thi is done please?
Keep it simple for now. Just concentrate on the histogram. If your scanning software shows one, you can use it just like the histogram in your digital camera. Use your primary controls of White point, low curve, high curve and brightness to not clip the low end or high if possible. Don't worry how it appears too much but you can't ignore it either if you happen to go too hog-wild on a control.

Now in the image editor you can use what ever method you prefer to adjust the contrast be it curves or levels. And since you are using an editor, you can selectively adjust areas of contrast just like a burn/dodge in wet printing.
01-04-2013, 03:50 PM   #1418
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QuoteOriginally posted by k0og Quote
Tuco,

However you got there, it's a NICE result!

-Joe-
Thanks.

QuoteOriginally posted by k0og Quote
Here is how I set up the Epson scan software with my V500:

-Joe-
You are throwing away (clipping) information but that's fine if you are targeting the scanned results to be the final or near final results.


Last edited by tuco; 01-04-2013 at 03:56 PM.
01-04-2013, 06:26 PM   #1419
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QuoteOriginally posted by tuco Quote
Thanks.

You are throwing away (clipping) information but that's fine if you are targeting the scanned results to be the final or near final results.
Tuco,

You are correct. As I show it with the automatic adjustment selected, it clips a little bit (especially at the high end). I usually slide out the white and black points a little bit to give me the full gamut, then adjust in post processing where the curves are more adjustable than in the Epson software. If I really want to capture detail over the whole dynamic range, I might even do a little bit of single-frame HDR processing (Sagelight has nice tools for that).

Good point!
-Joe-
01-04-2013, 07:09 PM   #1420
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QuoteOriginally posted by k0og Quote
Tuco,

You are correct. As I show it with the automatic adjustment selected, it clips a little bit (especially at the high end). I usually slide out the white and black points a little bit to give me the full gamut, then adjust in post processing where the curves are more adjustable than in the Epson software. If I really want to capture detail over the whole dynamic range, I might even do a little bit of single-frame HDR processing (Sagelight has nice tools for that).

Good point!
-Joe-
I see.

That HDR stuff is just a plug-n-chug approach. You don't get any extra information since there is only one exposure. You should be able to do the same thing by adjustment and selective adjustment of the full tone curve.

My 48 bit scan files in the ProPhoto color space saved as a TIFF-DNG imported into Lightroom has about as about much adjustment to pull up the shadows and recover highlights as my FF digital camera files. I'd even say more highlight recovery than my digital files.
01-04-2013, 10:33 PM - 2 Likes   #1421
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I may have posted this image in another thread...I'm proud of it.

ME Super with an M 20/4 (slight crop) on Acros.

01-04-2013, 10:38 PM   #1422
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tuco, I like those dunes shots from the last few pages...
01-05-2013, 02:07 AM - 1 Like   #1423
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QuoteOriginally posted by jakeblues Quote
tuco, I like those dunes shots from the last few pages...
Why thanks. Your shot is a good one too.


I'm starting to get a collection of this shot. I pass by it on route to other places on the dunes and usually take a shot of it.


Tree Portrait
The Living & The Dead



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01-05-2013, 06:20 AM - 1 Like   #1424
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Wells Cathedral, UK

All taken with an Agfa Isolette II on Tri-X, commercial dev and scan, tweaked in Lightroom.

Cathedral Cloister (I)


Cathedral Cloister (II)


Cathedral nave


Benj. Bastard, Sherborne, Fecit.


Thanks, Kris.

Last edited by womble; 01-05-2013 at 08:50 AM. Reason: spelling
01-05-2013, 07:23 AM   #1425
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QuoteOriginally posted by tuco Quote
I see.

That HDR stuff is just a plug-n-chug approach. You don't get any extra information since there is only one exposure. You should be able to do the same thing by adjustment and selective adjustment of the full tone curve.

My 48 bit scan files in the ProPhoto color space saved as a TIFF-DNG imported into Lightroom has about as about much adjustment to pull up the shadows and recover highlights as my FF digital camera files. I'd even say more highlight recovery than my digital files.
I scan as you do, 48 bit saved as tiff and imported to lightroom. Then I do resharpen a bit to try to gain back a bit of what was lost in scanning.

After that, my anecdotal observation has been that different films have vastly different qualities to them and those are affected by the camera and lens combo used - some lens and film combos yield very nice contrast and deep blacks while others yield softer imagines with a more washed out look - and I tend to avoid any adjustment to them in lightroom save straightening and cropping in order to preserve those unique qualities.

So my question is, why would I want to adjust them and in the process lose the unique qualities of each camera and lens? If i do adjust them all to look like ultra clean contrasty BW pics shot with a Pentax/Tak, why not just shoot digital with that lens and go through the standard workflow for digital images?
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