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12-16-2007, 11:37 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by jfdavis58 Quote
The truth.

You can learn to develop film from the package inserts and the data sheets found on various manufacturers websites. Starting with the Adams' books is a good way to waste a lot of materials and time. It's doubtful that more than 5% of the readers of The Camera, The Negative or The Print have the prerequisites or intelligence to begin with the Zone System. And four of five of those will endlessly cycle until they give up in frustration.

If you can find a copy of Kodak's Black and White Darkroom dataguide, you will have all the basics and a lot of out-of-date info that's at least interesting. They make a color guide as well, but you would do well to forget about that process for a good long time. After a couple dozen rolls of B&W you might ---no, you will have better luck with processing color slides anyway.

There is more information in Anchell's film and darkroom cookbooks about actual analog workflow than all the reprints of the Adams trilogy combined. Don't go the way of the ignorant snobbish elite, get stuff that starts with mix powder A with 700ml of water at 102 degrees F or similar. Forget the dodging and burning, the multi-contrast filtration etc, at least until you soup a few rolls and make a few prints.

Hell, forget the books entirely. Get a couple of good stainless steel tanks, the thick diameter wire spools to match (pro-grade), 2 daylight changing bags, thermometer, graduated beaker and solution bottles and I'll walk you through the entire film process in 500 words or less.

{one time offer}
I'll take you up on that offer as soon as I can John, unfortunately I'm suddenly stuck bringing in a bill collector instead of being able to buy what I need.
I hate deadbeats

12-17-2007, 06:57 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by jfdavis58 Quote
You can learn to develop film from the package inserts and the data sheets found on various manufacturers websites. Starting with the Adams' books is a good way to waste a lot of materials and time. It's doubtful that more than 5% of the readers of The Camera, The Negative or The Print have the prerequisites or intelligence to begin with the Zone System. And four of five of those will endlessly cycle until they give up in frustration.
I was going to suggest the same from a more subtile perspective. I would add that the people that underestimate other persons intelligence tend to overstimate (big time) his. Long story short, I would say the same but I would substitute intelligence for determination.

Last edited by Not Registered; 12-17-2007 at 06:58 AM. Reason: Tried to mispell ad minimum.
12-18-2007, 06:57 AM   #18
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I'm never subt(i)le-...waste of time and effort.

It's an intelligence problem when people mindlessly parrot what everyone else says simply because it's fashionable--and here on PentaxForums it's very fashionable to 'second' or 'third' a suggestion and be in the 'in' crowd--especially if it seems to be what the OP wants or desires or is looking for, or it can be done months after the original postings, blah, blah, blah.

And I'm always willing to give folks a chance; here's a challenge: using just The Negative, outline the Zone System process 'in the practical sense', i.e. give it to us in steps.

Too simple, you say?

OK; parrot the 3 or 4 things that are wrong with the ZS---hint: they're not listed in the Adam's books!

And Mr Gruoso: please note that I rarely insult anyone in particular (anymore); it's a bland, blanket description that anyone can choose to be covered by or not-"if the shoe fits" sort of thing. It would be nice if folks provided as much free information (in general or to me) and less critique of my style of delivery and silly 'back on you' commentary. For my part, I'll refrain from correcting your spelling or grammer .

QuoteOriginally posted by Gruoso Quote
I was going to suggest the same from a more subtile perspective. I would add that the people that underestimate other persons intelligence tend to overstimate (big time) his. Long story short, I would say the same but I would substitute intelligence for determination.
12-18-2007, 07:43 AM   #19
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Thank you for the corrections. Unfortunately, I dont have the time (and most of the time the knowledge) to correct my spelling or grammer but I am an avid learner who always wellcome a good correction. At any case, if you really dont want the "back on you" comments you know perfectly what you have to do, although it sounds to me that you will keep feeding them. It is not my intention to argue with anybody so please, feel free to ignore this post.

QuoteOriginally posted by jfdavis58 Quote
I'm never subt(i)le-...waste of time and effort.

It's an intelligence problem when people mindlessly parrot what everyone else says simply because it's fashionable--and here on PentaxForums it's very fashionable to 'second' or 'third' a suggestion and be in the 'in' crowd--especially if it seems to be what the OP wants or desires or is looking for, or it can be done months after the original postings, blah, blah, blah.

And I'm always willing to give folks a chance; here's a challenge: using just The Negative, outline the Zone System process 'in the practical sense', i.e. give it to us in steps.

Too simple, you say?

OK; parrot the 3 or 4 things that are wrong with the ZS---hint: they're not listed in the Adam's books!

And Mr Gruoso: please note that I rarely insult anyone in particular (anymore); it's a bland, blanket description that anyone can choose to be covered by or not-"if the shoe fits" sort of thing. It would be nice if folks provided as much free information (in general or to me) and less critique of my style of delivery and silly 'back on you' commentary. For my part, I'll refrain from correcting your spelling or grammer .


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