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08-07-2008, 01:03 PM   #16
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JIm, as you have read from the many replies there are several options for you:
- get the film scanned in the 1-hour-lab. These scans are usually very low res, certainly nt good enough for 11x14 prints, you want to make
- get the film scanned professionally: this is the route to go, for getting higfh res scans. It is going to be expensive if you scan loads of images
- scan yourself. If you want a 300 dpi print, you need to scan your images with effectively 2800 dpi. That is the realm of the dedicated, good quality film scanner, like a Nikon V or the like (well, not much choice there). Even the best affordable flatbeds like the Epson V700/750 (I have one myself) won't provide more than app. 2300 dpi real resolution (the claimed 6000 dpi are a purely theoretical thing - but this is the same with all other flatbeds, be it Epson, Canon, Mikrotek, HP etc.)
Nevertheless, this still should suffice for a good 11x14 print, because 300 dpoi is not always necessary. 240 dpi is in most cases good enough (subject dependend). If you go for a flatbed, be careful to buy a modell with Silverfast scan software (much cheaper to go with the scanner, than to buy it separately).

Silverfast can improve the scan quality immensely, because it can make multi-exposure scans, which allow to scan much higher densities /better shadows and highlights). Wheras a simple Epson V700/750 has a density range of something like 3.1 and goes up to 3.36. Nikon film scanners get even a bigger boost in desity range.

Up to a certain degree you can have that with Vuescan, too - another independend scanner software package. Both have trial versions, so you can explore, which one you prefer. Silverfast is much more expensive in the end, but gives better control, if you know what you do, wheras Vuescan is probably more user friendly.

The much bigger problem, than pure resolution (or pixels in the final scan file) is colour depth. All 1-hour-lab scans will be 8 bit and thus they won't use the information contained in the image, but lose most of the information.

Pro-scans and your own home-made scans can be (and should be) something between 12-16 bit (these all end up in a 16-bit TIF file, as TIFs don't come in 12 bit or 14 bit flavour). This is considerably more infomration than an 8 bit file. Compare it to making RAWs versus JPGs with a digital camera.

Then you asked whether to use slide or neg films. I think, today it is widely accepted, that negs provide a better base for scanning, as they simply have a far bigger contrast ratio. A negative can contain 12 f-stops of useable information, wheras a slide typically will offer 9 f-stops as the max. That is a huge difference.

When scanning from prints, this is even wortse, as a print does not even transport the
8 or 9 f-stops of the slide film. Its contrast ratio is something like 1:256, versus 1:1000 for the slide and even more for the neg.

If you want to scan prints, this print must already be optimized to contain all the information on the neg/slide. That means it must be made to highest quality standards with contrast reduction (dodging, burning, split exposure etc.) to allow to even apporach, what is reall "in" the neg/slide.


Oops, that's a bit long, now. So I stop here.

Ben

08-07-2008, 01:31 PM   #17
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Very interesting stuff Ben, thanks. It seems there is a lot more to scanning then I originally thought!
08-07-2008, 06:59 PM   #18
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Hey Nick, the scans from the Epson V500 look great! I have been threatening to buy it too but wanted to see some real-world images from it first. I need a scanner that will do 35mm and medium format slides, prints and negatives. This one looks like it fits the bill!

Where did you buy yours? I see that Vistek has it for $249 + $8.95 shipping and it has a $50 mail-in rebate if purchased before the end of August. Did you find a better price at a 'brick and mortor' store or buy on-line?
08-07-2008, 10:19 PM   #19
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I just got a V500 also. I like it so far. Haven't had a chance to scan negative yet. It sounds like a space ship when it runs. While its a flat bed, its was designed with priority to film and photos and that's all I'm going to use it for.

08-08-2008, 06:00 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by J.Scott Quote
Hey Nick, the scans from the Epson V500 look great! I have been threatening to buy it too but wanted to see some real-world images from it first. I need a scanner that will do 35mm and medium format slides, prints and negatives. This one looks like it fits the bill!

Where did you buy yours? I see that Vistek has it for $249 + $8.95 shipping and it has a $50 mail-in rebate if purchased before the end of August. Did you find a better price at a 'brick and mortor' store or buy on-line?
I bought mine from Henry's. I had a bunch of gift certificates and they also have the mail in rebate. Same price as Vistek too.

I've been happy with it so far but colour scans seem to have less pop then my B&W scans. It's probably more to do with my settings then the scanner though.
08-08-2008, 08:04 AM   #21
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I got mine direct from Epson for 199 shipped. Ordered it Monday afternoon and it was here Thursday. They also have "returns" that have been verified ok for 149 shipped.
08-09-2008, 09:17 PM   #22
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Shoot slides. It is an original. A print is second generation and is subject to the labs interpretations. Resolution: It depends on the final output device. If you are going to an lcd or a crt, in other words for the web, than 100 dpi at final size is all the quality you need. A monitor cannot use any more info than that.Putting a 300 dpi photo on the web just takes more time to load and wastes space on servers. If you were to actually print your photos on a printing press than 300 dpi at the finished size is all you need. Anymore than that is just a waste. A press can't use anymore info than that. The important thing is the dpi at the finished size. If you think that you will print to a large format printer or any photo lab than that also is 300 dpi at the finished size.
When you scan, enlarge it to 11 x 14 and 300dpi when you are scanning it. You can always downsample but upsampling just doesn't cut it. As good as Photoshop is it doesn't know where to add the extra pixels and enlarging it will make it pixelated. (In this instance dpi=ppi)
08-14-2008, 06:05 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nick_b Quote
I bought mine from Henry's. I had a bunch of gift certificates and they also have the mail in rebate. Same price as Vistek too.

I've been happy with it so far but colour scans seem to have less pop then my B&W scans. It's probably more to do with my settings then the scanner though.
I took the leap and ordered my Epson V500 from Vistek tonight. I always over analyze electronic items - just order the damn thing!

Should be here in a few days and I can start scanning some negs and slides.

08-14-2008, 09:18 PM   #24
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I'll throw in another vote for the Epson V500. I bought one last week, and so far I have no complaints. It was a breeze to set up, it produces better scans then I got from my local lab, it can scan 135 as well as med format. It looks cool. It used LED's, and is ready to scan as soon as it is turned on. It has a light in the lid, and back lights transparencies during the scan. It has more scan options and settings then I know what to do with.

I develope B/W in my kitchen, and then scan.

As a matter of fact, as soon as I hit "post" I will be developing a roll. Just waiting for the sun to go down. I load the tank in the bathroom. Sounds worse then it is!

By developing my own film, and doing my own scanning, I have reduced my per shot cost from $0.80, to $0.30. Not to mention the fun factor.

From the lab:



From the V500:



Both 100% crops. 4800 dpi (I think)
08-15-2008, 02:28 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by KungPOW Quote
I'll throw in another vote for the Epson V500. I bought one last week, and so far I have no complaints. It was a breeze to set up, it produces better scans then I got from my local lab, it can scan 135 as well as med format. It looks cool. It used LED's, and is ready to scan as soon as it is turned on. It has a light in the lid, and back lights transparencies during the scan. It has more scan options and settings then I know what to do with.

I develop B/W in my kitchen, and then scan.

As a matter of fact, as soon as I hit "post" I will be developing a roll. Just waiting for the sun to go down. I load the tank in the bathroom. Sounds worse then it is!

By developing my own film, and doing my own scanning, I have reduced my per shot cost from $0.80, to $0.30. Not to mention the fun factor.
The scan looks impressive! I know that flatbed scanners are generally frowned upon by 'professional' photogs, but I'm just a rank amateur and this is all I can afford at the moment. Lately I haven't been pleasing myself with my photographic results but I'm sure I'll get my mojo back soon!

I like the idea of home developing the B&W. I bought a film changing bag and a few tanks and things off Ebay but haven't actually done the deed. What chemicals are you using for your home lab? I have read about the instant coffee developer but might want to use some chemicals dedicated to film development. If you could share your technique either here or in a PM I would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks.
08-15-2008, 01:09 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by J.Scott Quote
The scan looks impressive! I know that flatbed scanners are generally frowned upon by 'professional' photogs, but I'm just a rank amateur and this is all I can afford at the moment. Lately I haven't been pleasing myself with my photographic results but I'm sure I'll get my mojo back soon!

I like the idea of home developing the B&W. I bought a film changing bag and a few tanks and things off Ebay but haven't actually done the deed. What chemicals are you using for your home lab? I have read about the instant coffee developer but might want to use some chemicals dedicated to film development. If you could share your technique either here or in a PM I would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks.
I am VERY new to developing my own film. As a matter of fact, last night was only the third role I have ever processed!

As for chemicals I use (and have only ever used), Folgers, Arm & Hammer, and Vit C. Look up "Caffenol C" on the web.

I use water as a stop bath, and basic Kodak Fixer and PhotoFlo.

If you are interested, I could write out the process (times, temps etc agitation pattern)

The standard chemical process that does interest me is Diafine. Reading on the web, I have seen good things about Tri-X 400 and Diafine, when the negative is scanned. As I understand, the big drawback with Diafine is that it produces a very low contrast, but high detail negative. But for scanning, I think this is what I want.

I would try it, but I cannot find Diafine for sale in Canada. I might make a run accross the border, but for now I am just using caffenol C.

Overall, my plan is to use Caffenol C until I have a standard, and repeatable process, then start adjusting times and or temps to improve the negatives.

Overall, I would sugest to give it a try to develope your own. I found it ALLOT easier then I had immagined.

Eric.
08-15-2008, 01:20 PM   #27
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I see Freestyle has Diafine for sale. I have used them before, so they will ship to Canada. Diafine I know they won't ship liquids but a powder should be ok - I think.

I guess I'll just have to be brave and give it a whirl!

Thanks
08-15-2008, 07:23 PM   #28
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Here are some great resources for developing your own film....

http://www.ilfordphoto.com/Webfiles/200629163442455.pdf


and a youtube tutorial....

There are four parts to it.

YouTube - How to Develop B&W Roll Film, photography w/ J Brunner, Pt 1
08-16-2008, 12:14 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by J.Scott Quote
I see Freestyle has Diafine for sale. I have used them before, so they will ship to Canada. Diafine I know they won't ship liquids but a powder should be ok - I think.

I guess I'll just have to be brave and give it a whirl!

Thanks
Thanks for the info. But once I meet the min charge, and shipping, it looks like I will be close to 50 bucks! yikes! Besides, I think I need an excuss for a road trip to the South.

Back to the topic of scanning photos at home, here is a link to some photos I scanned with the Epson V500.

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/post-your-photos/34755-urban-landscape.html#post318292

The negatives were scanned at 3200 DPI, black/white point adjusted in Gimp, a burn layer, and a soft light layer added. resized, and a slight sharpening. Ok, so maybe not a "raw from the scanner" post, but it does show the final result.

Eric.
08-19-2008, 01:44 PM   #30
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Question: Why are you scanning at 3200dpi? To put on the net?
Scanner of choice for me is an Epson Expression 1680
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