Kodak Interview - Don't sell your film cameras yet!

B Grace · 03-03-2012, 08:10 AM

Excellent shots here!

I'm afraid the Kodak glide path continues and my guess is that at best Kodak will be out of the film business completely within ten years if they survive that long. For the past five years or so I've been experimenting with films I've assumed weren't long for this world and I just picked up the slides from my first roll of the current Elite Chrome. I'm very impressed with the results; the colors are excellent. It's a shame really to see the end of these films.

I thought Kodak handled the discontinuation of Kodachrome as well as they could but the end of Plus-X seemingly in the middle of the night was disappointing. I admit to a bit of no longer caring about Kodak's B&W films. I've never been a Tri-X guy and the T-Max films didn't spark much of an interest for me back in the '80s nor when I tried a couple of rolls of 100 a few months ago. I should give the C-41 film a try. I could be happy sending my money to Ilford.

I would agree about the Portra films being neutral, almost to a fault in my opinion. With the current trends of over the top digital saturation I find the idea of a neutral film refreshing or at least I think I do. I was content with shooting Reala for all of my color stuff even though it was pretty bold. I shot a few rolls of Ektar a few years ago. The shots I see here are excellent.

I suggest everyone stock up on the non-C41 Kodak films you like. I wouldn't be surprised if by the end of 2012 Kodak offers only C-41 films.

LesDMess · 03-03-2012, 11:24 AM

I suggest along with stocking up actually blowing though as many rolls as you can and having them processed like there's no tomorrow!

tuco · 03-03-2012, 11:28 AM

Originally posted by B Grace

...
I suggest everyone stock up on the non-C41 Kodak films you like. I wouldn't be surprised if by the end of 2012 Kodak offers only C-41 films.

I predict the opposite. Stock up on C-41 and BW will survive longer.

stevebrot · 03-03-2012, 03:45 PM

Kodak's market behavior in recent years for its films has been exemplary when compared the Fujifilm.

Steve

hiktaka · 03-03-2012, 07:51 PM

Good news that Kodak is continuing film prods, bad news that Kodak is discontinuing slides.
But, really, how many people are actually buying fresh films to keep them being sold?
OTOH it's unfair hoping Kodak to continue to make films without increasing market.
As hard as business is, any products with low profit is inevitably going to be ceased.

**ChrisPlatt** · 03-03-2012, 08:15 PM

It's a real shame. I have always preferred Kodak slide films.

Now Fuji will be able to charge whatever they like for theirs.

Chris

**monochrome** · 03-03-2012, 08:53 PM

Its the chemicals that end the film. Can't meet OSHA and EPA requirements without new P&E investment, which isn't justified. Otherwise they could keep making these products virtually forever.

unixrevolution · 03-08-2012, 06:29 AM

Originally posted by hiktaka

Good news that Kodak is continuing film prods, bad news that Kodak is discontinuing slides.
But, really, how many people are actually buying fresh films to keep them being sold?
OTOH it's unfair hoping Kodak to continue to make films without increasing market.
As hard as business is, any products with low profit is inevitably going to be ceased.

I have a friend who's all digital, who got upset when I told him about Kodak slide being discontinued. I was a little incensed, and may have kind of personally blamed him for the discontinuation of Ektachrome since he hasn't bought slide film in 20 years.

séamuis · 03-08-2012, 01:22 PM

Originally posted by hiktaka

Good news that Kodak is continuing film prods, bad news that Kodak is discontinuing slides.
But, really, how many people are actually buying fresh films to keep them being sold?
OTOH it's unfair hoping Kodak to continue to make films without increasing market.
As hard as business is, any products with low profit is inevitably going to be ceased.

a lot of people are. I think the Japanese photographer Shinya Arimoto probably singlehandedly keeps Tri-X sales high. I just bought nearly 300 dollars worth of Portra, and I usually spend several thousand a year on kodak film. anyone who believes film isn't selling is displaying ignorance. kodak themselves have stated that the demad for film has been on the rise, so your idea that there is no increasing market is untrue by kodaks own admission.

**monochrome** · 03-08-2012, 03:22 PM

I believe the major issue is not the film, per se. It is the cost of producing the chemistry for the C-36 developing process. Ageing plant and equipment that must be replaced, new environmental regulation causing more costly manufacturing processes, new safe-transport rules, new labeling rules, liability insurance costs, new safe chamical end-userhandling rules - all of these require fresh capital commitments to the chemical side of the film business that makes the economics of transparency films too challenging to continue them.

Pentaxlvr · 03-09-2012, 03:50 AM

Originally posted by monochrome

I believe the major issue is not the film, per se. It is the cost of producing the chemistry for the C-36 developing process. Ageing plant and equipment that must be replaced, new environmental regulation causing more costly manufacturing processes, new safe-transport rules, new labeling rules, liability insurance costs, new safe chamical end-userhandling rules - all of these require fresh capital commitments to the chemical side of the film business that makes the economics of transparency films too challenging to continue them.

Monochrome, how did you acquire this information? I would like to know if this is the reason Kodak is dropping all E-6 slide films.

**monochrome** · 03-09-2012, 01:48 PM

I cannot speak specifically about Eastman Kodak's decision regarding E-6 process films. I should perhaps have used subjunctive more effectively in my post.

I do know through years of general reading that many, many legacy products have ceased production for the reasons cited above, espcially since capital has become very scarce at the margin in this global economy.

Plant and equipment wears out; regulations change, requiring fresh capital investment; people age and it may require major training efforts to replace them. People are expensive and certain products do not lend themselves to less person-intensive manufacturing processes. There can be any number of reasons a company might discontinue manufacturing a semingly robust product. Lately tightening EPA regulation of wet petrochemical industries has caused a significant series of changes in my area.

This gradual de-industrialization of middle America last occured in the late 70's through mid 80's, for similar reasons. My father's company declined from robust to extinct between 1978 and 1981.

03-03-2012, 11:28 AM	#48
tuco Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Pugetopolis Posts: 11,026	Originally posted by B Grace ... I suggest everyone stock up on the non-C41 Kodak films you like. I wouldn't be surprised if by the end of 2012 Kodak offers only C-41 films. I predict the opposite. Stock up on C-41 and BW will survive longer. Last edited by tuco; 03-03-2012 at 11:40 AM.

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03-03-2012, 08:10 AM	#46
B Grace Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Western Missouri Posts: 429	Excellent shots here! I'm afraid the Kodak glide path continues and my guess is that at best Kodak will be out of the film business completely within ten years if they survive that long. For the past five years or so I've been experimenting with films I've assumed weren't long for this world and I just picked up the slides from my first roll of the current Elite Chrome. I'm very impressed with the results; the colors are excellent. It's a shame really to see the end of these films. I thought Kodak handled the discontinuation of Kodachrome as well as they could but the end of Plus-X seemingly in the middle of the night was disappointing. I admit to a bit of no longer caring about Kodak's B&W films. I've never been a Tri-X guy and the T-Max films didn't spark much of an interest for me back in the '80s nor when I tried a couple of rolls of 100 a few months ago. I should give the C-41 film a try. I could be happy sending my money to Ilford. I would agree about the Portra films being neutral, almost to a fault in my opinion. With the current trends of over the top digital saturation I find the idea of a neutral film refreshing or at least I think I do. I was content with shooting Reala for all of my color stuff even though it was pretty bold. I shot a few rolls of Ektar a few years ago. The shots I see here are excellent. I suggest everyone stock up on the non-C41 Kodak films you like. I wouldn't be surprised if by the end of 2012 Kodak offers only C-41 films.

03-03-2012, 11:24 AM	#47
LesDMess Pentaxian Join Date: May 2011 Location: Santa Cruz, CA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,235	I suggest along with stocking up actually blowing though as many rolls as you can and having them processed like there's no tomorrow!

03-03-2012, 03:45 PM	#49
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Kodak's market behavior in recent years for its films has been exemplary when compared the Fujifilm. Steve

03-03-2012, 07:51 PM	#50
hiktaka Junior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bekasi Posts: 32	Good news that Kodak is continuing film prods, bad news that Kodak is discontinuing slides. But, really, how many people are actually buying fresh films to keep them being sold? OTOH it's unfair hoping Kodak to continue to make films without increasing market. As hard as business is, any products with low profit is inevitably going to be ceased.

03-03-2012, 08:15 PM	#51
ChrisPlatt Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Rockaway Beach NYC Posts: 7,692	It's a real shame. I have always preferred Kodak slide films. Now Fuji will be able to charge whatever they like for theirs. Chris

03-03-2012, 08:53 PM	#52
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Its the chemicals that end the film. Can't meet OSHA and EPA requirements without new P&E investment, which isn't justified. Otherwise they could keep making these products virtually forever.

03-08-2012, 06:29 AM	#53
unixrevolution Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Waldorf, MD Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,861	Originally posted by hiktaka Good news that Kodak is continuing film prods, bad news that Kodak is discontinuing slides. But, really, how many people are actually buying fresh films to keep them being sold? OTOH it's unfair hoping Kodak to continue to make films without increasing market. As hard as business is, any products with low profit is inevitably going to be ceased. I have a friend who's all digital, who got upset when I told him about Kodak slide being discontinued. I was a little incensed, and may have kind of personally blamed him for the discontinuation of Ektachrome since he hasn't bought slide film in 20 years.

03-08-2012, 01:22 PM	#54
séamuis Banned Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Savannah, U.S./Baguio City, P.H. Posts: 5,979	Originally posted by hiktaka Good news that Kodak is continuing film prods, bad news that Kodak is discontinuing slides. But, really, how many people are actually buying fresh films to keep them being sold? OTOH it's unfair hoping Kodak to continue to make films without increasing market. As hard as business is, any products with low profit is inevitably going to be ceased. a lot of people are. I think the Japanese photographer Shinya Arimoto probably singlehandedly keeps Tri-X sales high. I just bought nearly 300 dollars worth of Portra, and I usually spend several thousand a year on kodak film. anyone who believes film isn't selling is displaying ignorance. kodak themselves have stated that the demad for film has been on the rise, so your idea that there is no increasing market is untrue by kodaks own admission.

03-08-2012, 03:22 PM	#55
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	I believe the major issue is not the film, per se. It is the cost of producing the chemistry for the C-36 developing process. Ageing plant and equipment that must be replaced, new environmental regulation causing more costly manufacturing processes, new safe-transport rules, new labeling rules, liability insurance costs, new safe chamical end-userhandling rules - all of these require fresh capital commitments to the chemical side of the film business that makes the economics of transparency films too challenging to continue them.

03-09-2012, 03:50 AM	#56
Pentaxlvr Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Michigan Photos: Gallery Posts: 46	Originally posted by monochrome I believe the major issue is not the film, per se. It is the cost of producing the chemistry for the C-36 developing process. Ageing plant and equipment that must be replaced, new environmental regulation causing more costly manufacturing processes, new safe-transport rules, new labeling rules, liability insurance costs, new safe chamical end-userhandling rules - all of these require fresh capital commitments to the chemical side of the film business that makes the economics of transparency films too challenging to continue them. Monochrome, how did you acquire this information? I would like to know if this is the reason Kodak is dropping all E-6 slide films.

03-09-2012, 01:48 PM	#57
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	I cannot speak specifically about Eastman Kodak's decision regarding E-6 process films. I should perhaps have used subjunctive more effectively in my post. I do know through years of general reading that many, many legacy products have ceased production for the reasons cited above, espcially since capital has become very scarce at the margin in this global economy. Plant and equipment wears out; regulations change, requiring fresh capital investment; people age and it may require major training efforts to replace them. People are expensive and certain products do not lend themselves to less person-intensive manufacturing processes. There can be any number of reasons a company might discontinue manufacturing a semingly robust product. Lately tightening EPA regulation of wet petrochemical industries has caused a significant series of changes in my area. This gradual de-industrialization of middle America last occured in the late 70's through mid 80's, for similar reasons. My father's company declined from robust to extinct between 1978 and 1981.