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03-13-2012, 10:40 AM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
At some future time we won't be able to find working circuit boards for cameras that have even just a meter (not to mention more complicated electronics). Sure - then they can be cosmetically restored and displayed (except for the very few crazy-wealthy people who can have capacitors and circuits fabricated
Actually, simple circuits like the ones used for meters are incredibly easy to make and very cheap! I'm sure a custom shop would charge a ton, but if you did it yourself it'd cost you probably less than $10 of materials, plus the equipment. Fabricating circuitboards is a pretty simple process; I've done it before and I'm no electric engineer. You can buy kits with the supplies and chemicals to etch whatever circuit you want for cheap. The hardest part would be installing it in the camera, which would be a quite delicate procedure.

03-13-2012, 11:12 AM   #47
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One of the problems with many camera circuit 'boards' is that they aren't actually boards, they're designed to wrap over and around other components.

But this is one of the reasons to value the inaccurate, temperamental and high maintenance mechanical shutters: should the electrics go the camera still works fine.
03-13-2012, 11:27 AM   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by ironlionzion Quote
If he drives one a day, each car is getting 3 days of use a year: hardly a daily driver.
I think we end up in basic agreement about collecting, displaying and using cameras.

I think I own too many film cameras - I can't use them often enough to (IMO) justify having the money tied up on a shelf - that reflects my family values (well maybe more my wife's). I also own WAY too many lenses but for some reason I feel differently about them, probably because when I want a certain shot and the only way to get that shot is with a certain lens, then I have the lens. Any K-mount camera will do under the circumstances.
03-13-2012, 12:14 PM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nesster Quote
One of the problems with many camera circuit 'boards' is that they aren't actually boards, they're designed to wrap over and around other components.
well, that complicates the whole circuit board making quite a lot! It might be possible, with today's smaller components, to fit everything on a flat board somehow, but I'm just speculating at this point.

03-13-2012, 01:50 PM   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nesster Quote
One of the problems with many camera circuit 'boards' is that they aren't actually boards, they're designed to wrap over and around other components.

But this is one of the reasons to value the inaccurate, temperamental and high maintenance mechanical shutters: should the electrics go the camera still works fine.
QuoteOriginally posted by ironlionzion Quote
well, that complicates the whole circuit board making quite a lot! It might be possible, with today's smaller components, to fit everything on a flat board somehow, but I'm just speculating at this point.
Most cameras made since the late 1970s use a flexible ribbon-type printed circuit that drapes over and around the mechanical components. Meter circuits and detectors are on a couple of small boards by the eyepiece and shutter logic is usually part of that assembly. The whole business is highly modular and nice to look at. Too bad though if the ribbon fatigues and breaks.

On earlier cameras, it is a lot messier with tiny wires and soldered connections. One of the main issues is the problem of leaking batteries. Often these would corrode the wires leading to the battery chamber and, through some magical process, ruin the entire wire run to the meter circuits. Detecting the nature of the fault and running replacement wire is a significant challenge. I paid to have this done on my old Mamiya 1000 DTL and am not sure that I would do it again. It is so much easier to just carry a hand-held meter and enjoy the excellent mechanical components without having to fuss with the meter.


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03-13-2012, 02:58 PM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by PPPPPP42 Quote
I just bought batteries for my super program for the first time in a decade, this is a step in the wrong direction, you can all go die in a fire now.

Does anyone have a used complete darkroom they don't want anymore? B&W is the only way I can see this ever working out.

Also my super program never did a metering check when I press the shutter button halfway, I had to press the little button on the left side by the lens mount for that, is this normal or broken, I forget what the manual said but I thought it was supposed to preview when you do that.
Nice how you've come around and I'd gladly donate one of those Leitz focomat 1c, from my darkroom forest . . . but this is The Netherlands, hmmmm, maybe not so practical. Re working with prints in a wet darkroom: one must enjoy taking time . . . that's all it takes
03-13-2012, 03:19 PM   #52
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Back in the old days when my wife and I used Spotmatic Fs I had a very small collection of Pentax bodies, a SV and another one cannot remember, a A110 which I still own, plus an Ashiflex and also many box cameras. Now adays my film 35mm collection is a MZ5n and it resides in my camera bag next to the K-r. I do confess that I do not shoot it that much but part of the reason is if I am going out to shoot film I often take the 500 C/M instead.

I too am of the opinion that even collectibles should be used, perhaps not daily or in adverse conditions but used. I do have a 5X8 sitting on a tripod not being used but that is as much due to lack of any film holders and am not willing to spend the fortune for a 5X8 holder when I have lots of 5X7 and 4X5 to use. The 5X8 is from the 1880s or 90s and I do have a British whole plate camera that bought in the fall and will be putting to use soon as we make some lens boards and I found some film holders in BC that I just ordered as well. These are wooden cameras hence if they need to be restored we are talking of few parts but mostly refinishing wood which even I can manage (occasionally). Once of the reasons I would not own a Leica is I do not think they are my style of camera and hence would not be used very much (excluding the cost of the things as well) and I feel rather bad that I hardly use my Rolleichord since I got the Hasselblad but that is partly due to a broken part which makes it a little less convenient to operate.

As the Photo club's Christmas party the host had a nice camera collection of mostly ones that had been in the family or given to him and it was interesting to see and talk to him about them but other than a few Kodaks I do not see me having them. Spotmatics and there kind deserve to be used and that is why I sold mine a couple of years ago,
03-13-2012, 04:27 PM   #53
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Well it started with an MX, then a KX, then an LX and before I knew it I had to further explore the Pentax family. At first they had to be at least in good working order to get the proper experience. Then I had to get a second copy just in case - maybe the black bodied version. Then they had to look good too . . .



For me the must haves include a 1957 original Asahi Pentax which standardized practically all cameras thereafter. The MX has the most glorious viewfinder in the smallest well made fully manual body. Of course the LX with it's unprecedented and unsurpassed capabilities allows unique shooting opportunities. Of course Pentax made some other particularly well thought out light tight boxes too and their lenses aren't bad either . . .

Don't be afraid to exercise them because we have the best support for repairs with Eric!

03-13-2012, 06:41 PM   #54
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This is all of you:
Enabler: An enabler is a person who by their actions make it easier for an addict to continue their self-destructive behavior by criticizing or rescuing.
You all deserve to be beaten with a sock full of quarters, the sock will be replaced when it rips.

OK for an update, its comical watching me try to use a real SLR again, its like monkeys and the monolith here, all screaming and jumping up and down, I had to browse the book to realize that the display just says 1000 until you advance the film (or no film in this case while testing) to the first frame then the auto exposure kicks in, sorta an anti stupidity measure to remind you its not ready for pics yet, I thought it was broken.
Thankfully I still have the original manual for the Super Program and the AF280T flash, and with the set of A lenses I have I have a complete Pentax branded set all specifically designed to work with each other so that eases things a bit. Its amazing how completely foreign this thing is to me now, I can't remember how to do anything with it despite the fact that I used it for enough years that my thumb still unconsciously goes for the little film advance lever to flip back and forth while considering a shot, even when using my digital more than 10 years later (actually I think closer to 15 now I'm adding it up)
Everything seems to work perfectly except that half press on the shutter button, but then that didn't work before I stopped using it, kinda irritating, If i can disassemble and re-solder a broken joystick (I had to do that when I was like 12) and take apart an SMC-A 50mm1.4 lens for complete cleaning and re-lubing and have it work perfect after I'd imagine it isn't beyond me to take this thing apart and fix that, anyone know what I'm getting into? I'd start a new thread but I rather like how this thread has completely fallen off topic.
This camera is in desperate need of a proper servicing, there is actually a faint amount of rust on some of the screws and some green oxidization on the outside in a few small places from all the years of weather and storage in random places. I can't see that being economical to have done though so its either me or nothing, but then the only thing that doesn't work is that half press, so I'll just work on that.

And I even discovered that Walmart sells what is probably cheap quality Fuji color film and Target has what is probably cheap Kodak color film and they even still have a 1 hour photo, I was rather shocked, Walmart takes a week for that now.

EDIT: I forgot how much I liked some of the nifty controls like that exposure correction dial under the film rewinder lever, way faster and simpler for adjusting the auto exposure without turning it off when it is being stupid. And that shutter preview lever or whatever you want to call it on the right side of the lens mount, its interesting to see what your camera will see.

Last edited by PPPPPP42; 03-13-2012 at 06:56 PM.
03-14-2012, 03:58 AM   #55
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QuoteOriginally posted by PPPPPP42 Quote
You all deserve to be beaten with a sock full of quarters, the sock will be replaced when it rips.
[does quick calculation] That's great as we can buy a 55mm Takumar after three socks if we get to keep the quarters when the sock rips...
03-14-2012, 06:00 AM   #56
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For m42 bodies, I'll put in a plug for either an "AP", "S", or "K" but the K is a very usable body from 1958 and has the best lines and compact form of all film bodies in 135 film made by Asahi. The early and late versions of the SV are also sleek. I also like either the ES or ESII (in chrome ) because they are a lot like the later K2 only the K2 has the metal shutter and K-mount. The ES and ESII can be cla'd but the ElectroSpotmatic can't due to every body having a prototypical body. The Spot F is another good option since it has open aperture metering like the ES and ESII.
03-14-2012, 09:50 AM   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
For m42 bodies, I'll put in a plug for either an "AP", "S", or "K" but the K is a very usable body from 1958 and has the best lines and compact form of all film bodies in 135 film made by Asahi. The early and late versions of the SV are also sleek.
Thanks for pointing this out. There is a tendency for people to lump all of the M42 Pentax bodies together in regards to form factor when in reality they are not all the same. I found that out when I tried to buy a full case for the Sightseeing Screwmount. I figured that a Spotmatic case would work. Wrong again, Steve! The Spotmatic is a taller camera by several millimeters and some Spotties are taller than others. Gotta make room for all those wires, I guess.


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03-14-2012, 11:12 AM   #58
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
... I found that out when I tried to buy a full case for the Sightseeing Screwmount. I figured that a Spotmatic case would work. Wrong again, Steve! The Spotmatic is a taller camera by several millimeters and some Spotties are taller than others.
Right. I've picked up a couple H3v's in Spotmatic cases. You can tell by the abrasion on the case from the wind lever - and the cutout for the self-timer.
03-14-2012, 05:23 PM   #59
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I'm glad you found cheap film; that was one of the things I had planned on mentioning once I finished reading all the posts in this thread. I typically use the cheap stuff unless it's for a customer or I'm feeling the need for something nicer. I've picked up middle-of-the-road film for really cheap just past their expire dates from stores by asking for a discount (usually buy one, get one free).

If you're not developing the film yourself look in the local drug store circular ads. Walgreen's has a lot of coupons for photo developing or scanning. If it's not an important job I just have Walgreen's develop and scan the image onto a disc instead of prints. If it's important a pro lab does the job for more than just a sock full of quarters.

If you want to go the inexpensive drug store route try a few different ones. You'll find a location or an employee who does a better job than the rest. Keep using that person.
QuoteOriginally posted by Nesster Quote
Also, drug stores will vary - I sometimes try a different store just to see how they do. Some scan larger than others, some have more dust, some over sharpen, etc.
03-14-2012, 05:47 PM   #60
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As far as recommendations for film cameras I'll have to preface my reply with this: If the camera were to sit in a sealed glass case and I had the money, I'd start with the gold LX and the rare unopened LX 2000. That's not going to ever happen, and I use my film cameras regularly.

I've owned each of the K series except the KX. It's on my list to acquire this one some day. I'd also like to own an SV and maybe an AP but since I no longer own any M42 lenses I don't think I'll head that direction any time soon. But back to my point... I hear the acclaim for the KX and I will get one eventually, but I can't recommend it until I've tried it for myself. My favorite K camera is the K2 DMD. I hated the K2, but the DMD is my second most-used camera and would never get rid of it.

I sold my LX due to the high-maintenance but it was a joy to use, especially with the sports action finder combo. So what tops my list? The MX. This is my most-used body and I have plans to find a cheap M 40 2.8 to go with it one day. I reach for the MX (loaded with color film) before any other camera and the K2 DMD often accompanies it with B&W film loaded.

The Super Program is used more often than my ME Super, but neither of these offer the same shooting experience as the K1000, KM, MX or K2 DMD provides me. I hope you embrace the film experience and continue with it. Just like you said film offers high quality images and as others have mentioned the look can't be Photoshopped into a digital picture. If you haven't yet browsed one of the bigger threads on this entire forum, here's a link to get you started: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-film-slr-discussion/53503-cool-let...ilm-shots.html.

Keep using your digital camera too. You'll find a nice balance between digital and film that makes us all the enthusiasts we are. If you have any questions let us know here and we'll try to help. Also, one more resource for you: A great place to find PDF manuals for older film cameras: Free Camera Instruction User Manuals!. The list is smaller than some other places, but the quality is nice and it doesn't require a password to open the documents. Here's where you can get a manual for your Super Program (listed as Super A): Pentax Manuals. The password is "Pentax" for all manuals here.
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