[baro-nite]

This is one area where PF could fix up the marketplace a little bit. PF could make it against forum rules to list items this way.

I wonder if these sellers realize just how many buyers are put off by this practice. Might actually be a benefit to buyers and sellers both for the marketplace to institute your suggestion.

[montman]

I think part of it is some people don't know any thing about film cameras. My very first film camera was an MX I bought off the forum. The pictures were supper inconsistent. I ended up buying a Canon EOS 1V and all my shots came out great. I then bought a ME Super form KEH and all my shots came out great. The MX I had, had something wrong with the light-meter or the shutter but it was sold to me as in working condition. I almost stopped shooting film because the first camera I had was broken and I did not know it and all my pictures were inconsistent.

[Simian Summit]

The most annoying thing, though, is the number of PM requests I get to lower the asking price. I always state the price is the price. what makes someone I've never heard of think I'll accommodate a one-off special request?

All this is very interesting. Personally, I have never had any problems on the marketplace (in fact I just picked a M40 today...condition as promised, but I digress). Maybe I buy so little, the big resellers don't have anything that interests me, I don't know, but it's something to be on the look-out for. Although I just wanted to comment on asking to people lower prices. I feel that the marketplace is where two people can meet to sell and buy something. If there's something out there that I want to buy, but I don't want to pay the listed price for, I feel that asking the seller to lower the price is fair game. Just as it's his right to refuse my offer or offer a middle-ground. Haggling has a long an honourable tradition. I fully understand that some people don't like doing it. Some sellers are firm on their prices and some buyers never ask sellers to reduce their prices, that's fine. However, I don't think that anyone should begrudge someone's attempt at haggling.

[magkelly]

This thread is totally depressing and totally discouraging to anyone who might even attempt to sell in the Market who isn't an expert. Thanks. You folks have just talked me right out of yet another probably lame attempt at trying to sell off some of my gear to people who might actually want to use it.

Yes, I did get it mostly at thrift shops, at the flea markets et all, but if I may ask just where *else* am I supposed to get vintage camera gear? Since I have no way of actually knowing if my idea of "very good to near mint" is good enough and I am now way too bloody freaking intimated to even try going there again I'm going to just forget the afternoon I just spent taking pics of every freaking thing in my kit.

I think I'll just skulk back off to my corner, ignore the pile of bills I was trying to pay off and just resign myself to the fact that I have easily 2K worth of extra "stuff" that I can't sell off to save my life. I wish I was totally joking. Yeah, I am partly, but I'm not entirely. Reading this thread? I just feel way too...unworthy...

You know I used to think I had a pretty thick hide till I started hanging out around here. It's not like I haven't been selling shiz for half my life offline. But every time I even think about listing in the Market here? I just end up withdrawing my attempt and reaching for the Prilosec... :P

[Canada_Rockies]

Hey, mag, don't take this thread too hard. All you have to do to convince many of us, is exactly what you do - you post. You actually USE camera gear. Add a few good pictures of the gear, showing any warts as well as the shiny bits, and it will be bait for us.

[Blue]

This thread is totally depressing and totally discouraging to anyone who might even attempt to sell in the Market who isn't an expert. Thanks. You folks have just talked me right out of yet another probably lame attempt at trying to sell off some of my gear to people who might actually want to use it.

Yes, I did get it mostly at thrift shops, at the flea markets et all, but if I may ask just where *else* am I supposed to get vintage camera gear? Since I have no way of actually knowing if my idea of "very good to near mint" is good enough and I am now way too bloody freaking intimated to even try going there again I'm going to just forget the afternoon I just spent taking pics of every freaking thing in my kit.

I think I'll just skulk back off to my corner, ignore the pile of bills I was trying to pay off and just resign myself to the fact that I have easily 2K worth of extra "stuff" that I can't sell off to save my life. I wish I was totally joking. Yeah, I am partly, but I'm not entirely. Reading this thread? I just feel way too...unworthy...

You know I used to think I had a pretty thick hide till I started hanging out around here. It's not like I haven't been selling shiz for half my life offline. But every time I even think about listing in the Market here? I just end up withdrawing my attempt and reaching for the Prilosec... :P

Just do the best you can.

[pz1fan]

This thread is totally depressing and totally discouraging to anyone who might even attempt to sell in the Market who isn't an expert. Thanks. You folks have just talked me right out of yet another probably lame attempt at trying to sell off some of my gear to people who might actually want to use it.

I think it's just about being honest. Don't oversell your items and you'll be fine. Same as the auction site.

Another thing I've noticed in the marketplace are postings where the seller says they are the original owner of sometimes very rare items. A search of the forum, however, shows they acquired this extremely rare lens in the wanted section well after the lens went out of production. Doesn't original owner mean you purchased it retail new?

[stevebrot]

This thread is totally depressing and totally discouraging to anyone who might even attempt to sell in the Market who isn't an expert.

Don't be discouraged from selling gear that you aren't using or don't need. The intent of this thread was a general rant against unscrupulous sellers. If you were expert enough to buy and use the gear in the first place, you are expert enough to know what it is worth and its condition and to sell it in a fair transaction.


Steve

[womble]

Hi Mag. I've only had one bad transaction and that wasn't through a photo-forum. All you need to do is (a) be honest and (b) accept returns. I'd be tempted to add (c) if you can, sell to people you recognise. I recently bought an AF35-70. I was honest and said I wanted it for my ME-F and for the AF to work, the seller was honest and said he had no idea if it would work on a ME-F as he didn't have one. We did a deal, and after an initial hiccup (the battery terminals needed a little cleaning), all is well. Be honest, be reasonable and communicate. A mantra for life really. K.

[rbefly]

Well, guess I've been lucky, only 2 purchases from Forum members, both were exactly as described and are still working fine; A K-7 and an A 35mm f/2.8.
Generally, the PF members are well-informed about the gear and know what it should look like and how it should function. There are exceptions, of course, but overall I think it's a good place to find Pentax-related equipment.
You won't find the "deals" that may have hidden treasures, but you won't have to wade through a zillion 50mm f/2.0's, lens caps or batteries, either.
For that, we have eBay, thrift shops and pawn shops.
Sellers here with good reps, active posts/photos and an occasional item for sale are just like you and I; If I get a new 200mm f/2.8, I'll try to sell my M 200mm f/4.0.
Hopefully, a few bad apples won't spoil the basket!
Ron

[germar]

This thread is totally depressing and totally discouraging to anyone who might even attempt to sell in the Market who isn't an expert.

Oh, I hope I didn't contribute to that! As I said, it's a great place to buy but it's no longer just a small enthusiast marketplace, and as more and more folks join in the more users need to play heads up ball with their deals.

I like the idea of formally banning the "price if gifted" or "net to me" nonsense from the site. I think that all started when there was a glut of K-7's on the marketplace and someone got the great idea to post a low-ball, no-frills price for their camera ... with the buyer having to later figure in Paypal and shipping. It should be the seller's burden to have a price that covers everything he wants covered, should that be transaction fees or shipping. Clarity in posts will go a long way to make the marketplace as friendly as it should be.

[Blue]

Oh, I hope I didn't contribute to that! As I said, it's a great place to buy but it's no longer just a small enthusiast marketplace, and as more and more folks join in the more users need to play heads up ball with their deals.

I like the idea of formally banning the "price if gifted" or "net to me" nonsense from the site. I think that all started when there was a glut of K-7's on the marketplace and someone got the great idea to post a low-ball, no-frills price for their camera ... with the buyer having to later figure in Paypal and shipping. It should be the seller's burden to have a price that covers everything he wants covered, should that be transaction fees or shipping. Clarity in posts will go a long way to make the marketplace as friendly as it should be.

Unless someone rats on someone, the "gift" method would be next to impossible to enforce. The "net to me" could be.

[baro-nite]

Unless someone rats on someone, the "gift" method would be next to impossible to enforce.

It's not that the Marketplace should try to enforce whether or not buyers want to use gift payments, which is their concern. As I see it there are two issues with listings either explicitly stating PP "gift" as an option, or stating "net to me" which is generally understood to imply the same thing. First is that such a transaction violates PP's TOS, and on those grounds alone it is reasonable to forbid listings that request this. Second is that many potential buyers are put off by such listings. Now, sellers are free to turn away buyers if they want, but I wonder if the sellers who list this way realize that they are limiting the number of potential buyers? I think it would be better for buyers and sellers both to make this change.

[Blue]

It's not that the Marketplace should try to enforce whether or not buyers want to use gift payments, which is their concern. As I see it there are two issues with listings either explicitly stating PP "gift" as an option, or stating "net to me" which is generally understood to imply the same thing. First is that such a transaction violates PP's TOS, and on those grounds alone it is reasonable to forbid listings that request this. Second is that many potential buyers are put off by such listings. Now, sellers are free to turn away buyers if they want, but I wonder if the sellers who list this way realize that they are limiting the number of potential buyers? I think it would be better for buyers and sellers both to make this change.

"Net to Me" implies that the buyer pays the Pay-Pal fee. That isn't forbidden by PayPal. Again, the gifting is done by two people and they are the only ones that no about the "gifting." Listing a Paypal fee and gifting in an ad are 2 different things. Net to Me can imply both but not necessarily. I am not advocating "gifting" and admit that it makes me nervous with people I don't know real well. Just pointing out that to catch people doing that will require someone reporting someone when this comes up in a PM.

[SteveM]

This thread is totally depressing and totally discouraging to anyone who might even attempt to sell in the Market who isn't an expert.

You should give the marketplace a try. People do *know* you from your activity here on the forum, and I think everyone would agree that you would be the type of person they would be happy to purchase something from. Take lots of pics of the items, rate them as described in the sticky in the marketplace and you should be all set.

I like the idea of formally banning the "price if gifted" or "net to me" nonsense from the site. I think that all started when there was a glut of K-7's on the marketplace and someone got the great idea to post a low-ball, no-frills price for their camera ... with the buyer having to later figure in Paypal and shipping. It should be the seller's burden to have a price that covers everything he wants covered, should that be transaction fees or shipping. Clarity in posts will go a long way to make the marketplace as friendly as it should be.

I agree that the price of an item should be very clear up front. I also won't go the "gift" route for various reasons, but I had in another thread discussed reducing the price if someone uses electronic bank transfer over Paypal. Due to the reaction in that thread, I'll include it in the price regardless of the shipping method chosen. Ironically, it was an attempt to pass the saving solely to the purchaser.

I've had a lot of activity in the marketplace over the years (mostly buying ) and it's been a great place to find items. I keep telling myself that I should "clean house" so to speak and will eventually get around to doing so. I am happy to put items on the market here instead of ebay primarily because we have a good group of people to deal with, and with any luck I'll get to see here on the forum the results of someone else using the items.