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12-22-2012, 12:16 AM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by yusuf Quote
I just noticed from specs that P3N viewfinder is even smaller than k-x (DSLR) which I wish was little bigger & brighter. So just wondering how good P3N would be for manual focus.
I believe that VF size is based around sensor/frame size.
The K-x DSLR is APS-C while the P3n is a 24x36 frame, so the VF of the P3n should be a fair amount larger.

12-22-2012, 02:15 AM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by Swift1 Quote
I believe that VF size is based around sensor/frame size.
The K-x DSLR is APS-C while the P3n is a 24x36 frame, so the VF of the P3n should be a fair amount larger.
Exactly right, and I can confirm that the P3n's VF is way bigger than the viewfinder on a K7, let alone the Kx.
12-22-2012, 06:38 AM   #33
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Do not be fooled by overall size, the VF is bigger and brighter than the D-KX

QuoteOriginally posted by yusuf Quote
I just noticed from specs that P3N viewfinder is even smaller than k-x (DSLR) which I wish was little bigger & brighter. So just wondering how good P3N would be for manual focus.
12-22-2012, 08:01 AM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by Swift1 Quote
I believe that VF size is based around sensor/frame size.
The K-x DSLR is APS-C while the P3n is a 24x36 frame, so the VF of the P3n should be a fair amount larger.
Got it, thanks for clarifying.

Just bought a Super A with M50/1.7 and I can confirm that viewfinder is larger and much better than my k-x

12-22-2012, 08:30 AM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lowell Goudge Quote
Don't confuse auto aperture and open aperture metering, with body controlled aperture
You mean Aperture Priority? That came along with the A series lenses and the SuperProgram.
12-22-2012, 10:05 AM   #36
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To clarify.

Aperture priority exposure means the aperture is manually set and the shutter speed is set automatically by the camera. This was done by putting the shutter-speed dial on A and manipulating the aperture ring on the lens.

Various Pentax cameras have had aperture-priority exposure since the Electro-Spotmatic (ES) of the very late 1960's.

The last Pentax camera not to have aperture-priority exposure was the MX.

Shutter-priority exposure, which is what the A-setting on the aperture ring is about (aperture set automatically) was introduced in the A series cameras and lenses. Shutter-speed priority metering means in-body aperture control. In-body aperture control means the aperture is passed to the lens from the body through the extra contacts on the mount (introduced in the A series lenses/bodies). This can be done either programmatically, or manually through pushing various dials and buttons. Nowadays, all aperture setting is in-body, whether it's manual or automatic, since today's lenses don't have an aperture ring.

When both the shutter and the lens is on auto, you get programmed mode, in which the camera calculated a suitable mean based on the ASA (ISO) setting.

The first Pentax cameras to set the ASA automatically were the P series we've been talking about. In that sense they are the first all-auto-exposure cameras. (They are also the last manuial-focus-only cameras.)

Since Pentax SLRs and DSLRs have the shutter in the body, not on the lens, ALL shutter control has been in-body since the Asahiflex.

Nowadays people use the Av, Tv, P abbreviations, but I am more comfortable with the longer 1970s/80s terminology.

Last edited by asaru; 12-22-2012 at 10:23 AM.
12-22-2012, 10:20 AM   #37
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I would use a MZ5 (ZX5 in America?) with spotmetering.
12-22-2012, 10:29 AM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by asaru Quote
The last Pentax camera not to have aperture-priority exposure was the MX.
By introduction date that would be true as the K1000 was introduced in 1975 and the MX in 1976. However, the K1000 went through a few revisions and continued in production till 1997.

And of course there are new production K Mount Vivitar V3800N fully manual only 35mm film cameras available today.

12-22-2012, 11:19 AM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
You mean Aperture Priority? That came along with the A series lenses and the SuperProgram.
No, I mean the original auto aperture lenses in the Kseries had open aperture metering, with an aperture ring coupling to the body (the topic of the crippled KMount) and the aperture automatically stopped down when shooting. This is not Aperture priority, it is simply the ability to meter wide open then stop down to shoot.

Aperture priority is a form of auto exposure, as app owed to matched needle metering in manual mode
12-22-2012, 01:26 PM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lowell Goudge Quote
No, I mean the original auto aperture lenses in the Kseries had open aperture metering, with an aperture ring coupling to the body (the topic of the crippled KMount) and the aperture automatically stopped down when shooting. This is not Aperture priority, it is simply the ability to meter wide open then stop down to shoot.

Aperture priority is a form of auto exposure, as app owed to matched needle metering in manual mode
I was talking about aperture priority via a program mode on A series and newer bodies that can take advantage of A series and newer lenses. Also, open aperture capable bodies and lenses weren't required for aperture priority on older cameras but they required stop down metering. Granted some program cameras can't control the aperture from the body and those require a lens with aperture ring to use the aperture priority mode.
12-22-2012, 01:56 PM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by asaru Quote
The first Pentax cameras to set the ASA automatically were the P series we've been talking about. In that sense they are the first all-auto-exposure cameras. (They are also the last manuial-focus-only cameras.)
Your post is a good clarification. However to clarify the last MF camera there was one exception, I believe Pentax released the oddball MZ-M/ZX-M as their last purely manual focus camera. I'd certainly recommend the P series cameras before the MZ/ZX series though. But then there is the other oddity Pentax added to that series, the MZ-S, which doesn't fit in with the rest of the series.
12-22-2012, 10:00 PM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
You mean Aperture Priority? That came along with the A series lenses and the SuperProgram.
Aperture priority? I think you mean Shutter Priority (Sv).

All K-mount lenses and M-42 screw mount lenses allow aperture priority automation (Av mode) on bodies that support the same. (You choose the aperture and the body sets the shutter speed.)

Only K-mount lenses with "A" contacts allow shutter priority automation (Sv mode) on bodies that support the same. (You choose the shutter speed and the body sets the aperture.) Happily this feature also allows for programmed exposure automation. (The body sets both the aperture and shutter speed.)


Steve

Last edited by stevebrot; 12-22-2012 at 10:09 PM.
12-23-2012, 08:25 AM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
Aperture priority? I think you mean Shutter Priority (Sv).

All K-mount lenses and M-42 screw mount lenses allow aperture priority automation (Av mode) on bodies that support the same. (You choose the aperture and the body sets the shutter speed.)

Only K-mount lenses with "A" contacts allow shutter priority automation (Sv mode) on bodies that support the same. (You choose the shutter speed and the body sets the aperture.) Happily this feature also allows for programmed exposure automation. (The body sets both the aperture and shutter speed.)


Steve
Steve, that is what I was talking about, i.e. Program modes. You ignored post 40. This started at post 26 when open aperture metering and aperture priority got brought into it. I was trying to point out that Aperture Priority via the body requires a body that can control the aperture via a program mode and that such bodies require an A series or newer lens. Obviously, an FA Ltd lens for example can be used on a K2 just fine with aperture priority since they have an aperture ring.

Last edited by Blue; 12-23-2012 at 08:38 AM.
12-23-2012, 09:01 AM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
You ignored post 40.
Actually, it was because of post #40 that I felt a general clarification would be helpful. I am still not sure what is meant by "aperture priority via program mode".

Historically, Av mode has been the easier type of exposure automation to support since it generally requires no physical coupling between the lens and body. The major exception being where the lens has no aperture ring. In that case, (obviously) the body must support both the coupling to set the aperture and a user interface for that purpose. So yes, "Aperture Priority via the body requires a body that can control the aperture"...duh!

In general, I feel that it is best to avoid drilling too deep on these sorts of things. The basic definitions are usually quite adequate. How a feature is implemented is often TMI (too much information).

Steve


(Has this thread gone deep enough down the rat hole yet???)
12-23-2012, 09:33 AM   #45
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I'm with you on the TMI. However, I believe we have been remiss in providing visual aids especially for a thread asking for a recommendation of a camera body!

I think the only question now is, do you want your MX in chrome or black . . .

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