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02-08-2013, 08:54 AM   #31
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I'm just going to slowly work my way through some different films =) I would like to end up using some slides as it's something I've never used before and they seem to produce fantastic results.

QuoteOriginally posted by russell2pi Quote
Dust... OMFG... when it comes to color fim, second after annoying processing labs that automatically "correct" your photos, this is the most annoying thing.

If you are at Swinburne, see if they still have the (b/w) darkroom available (my old haunt). Then at least (if you're anything like me) you only have yourself to blame for dust and everything else.

Hawthorn Photographics near Swinburne used to be good but I see they are no more.
Russell, I don't think I would be allowed in the darkroom since I am a student of the faculty of engineering and industrial science lol bit by bit I will move into developing film at home but for now, Croydon camera house can have my business =)

02-08-2013, 09:10 AM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by k0og Quote
I agree with Titrisol: You are off to a good start!

The dust spots on your photographs are not from dust in your camera, but from dust on the negatives when they were scanned for the computer. Dust is generally not a problem in the camera (but of course, it is good to keep it clean).

-Joe-
Dust in camera shoiws up as black/gray, not white. White is definately from scanner.
02-08-2013, 09:13 PM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by tuco Quote
It's more complicated than that. You just can't say, oh, Tri-X, everyone under expose 1/2 stop and you're good-to-go.
Well of course not. It depends on the composition and what you're trying to accomplish but it's a good rule of thumb. You have to get to know your film's characteristics. Some have more or less latitude. Some yield better results with a little underexposure, some with a little over and some work best right on.
02-08-2013, 09:48 PM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by wizowel Quote
Well of course not. It depends on the composition and what you're trying to accomplish but it's a good rule of thumb. You have to get to know your film's characteristics. Some have more or less latitude. Some yield better results with a little underexposure, some with a little over and some work best right on.
The reason it is a good rule of thumb and it applies to most all BW films to some degree is that many BW developers do not yield box speed. As a rule the replenishing developers usually do, however. And if you are scanning a good, full-tone image at 16bit gray scale, you have about much latitude in a RAW editor to pull up lows and recover highlights as digital camera's RAW file. So what is a half a stop mean. Not hardly enough to make or break most shots with BW film's latitude.


Last edited by tuco; 02-08-2013 at 09:54 PM.
02-08-2013, 10:07 PM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by wizowel Quote
but it's a good rule of thumb
To be honest, the best rule of thumb is to shoot box speed with normal development until you are familiar with the film. 1/2 stop exposure comp sounds good, but it is probably better to simply learn the basics of exposure and learn how to expose for the shadows if your subject demands it. Tri-X has pretty good dynamic range and does a pretty good job of holding shadow detail at box speed.


Steve
02-08-2013, 10:10 PM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by tuco Quote
It's more complicated than that. You just can't say, oh, Tri-X, everyone under expose 1/2 stop and you're good-to-go.
TRI-X isn't exactly my favourite film, I have been using T-MAX 100 for decades and I mix my own developer for it. I recommended that you read up on the Zone system developed by Ansel Adams. IMO Underexposure is not the best way to get the most out of B&W Negative films, the shadows tend to be grainier*. I always put my shadows at Zone III** rather than II like some people do, negative films handle over exposure in a more dignified fashion than digital does. But it you underexpose too much and your shadows will block up, badly.


*with transparency film the highlights are the grainier part of the tonal scale - so in that case you are better off underexposing by 1/3 or 1/2 a stop.
**though this is highly dependant on subject matter, there are High key lighting scenarios where it is next to impossible to Identify where Zone III is - and there are low key scenarios where finding where Zone VIII is is equally as difficult. In situations like that personal taste overrides Zone system guidelines.

Last edited by Digitalis; 02-08-2013 at 10:24 PM.
02-08-2013, 10:28 PM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
...
IMO Underexposure is not the best way to get the most out of B&W Negative films, the shadows tend to be grainier.
I've been shooting with a one-degree spot meter for over 20 years and still do today on a regular basis just so you know.

Yes under but over exposure is good. I shoot 400TMY at EI 50 as well as 100ACR/100TMX at EI 12 and get super fine grain and extreme dynamic range. It is called Minus-X development with PMK Pyro if you want to look it up. It is an radical case of highlight compression. Basically you place your low values, add 3 stops of exposure and cut your development time. I've post a night shot not long ago that recored detail 14 stops above the middle gray exposure.
02-08-2013, 10:37 PM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by tuco Quote
I've post a night shot not long ago that recored detail 14 stops above the middle gray exposure.
...Ohhhh, the pleasures of a staining developer! High sensitivity film...overexpose...underdevelop...build density in the highlights with stain!


Steve

(...is the OP confused enough yet?)

02-08-2013, 11:25 PM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by tuco Quote
The reason it is a good rule of thumb and it applies to most all BW films to some degree is that many BW developers do not yield box speed. As a rule the replenishing developers usually do, however. And if you are scanning a good, full-tone image at 16bit gray scale, you have about much latitude in a RAW editor to pull up lows and recover highlights as digital camera's RAW file. So what is a half a stop mean. Not hardly enough to make or break most shots with BW film's latitude.
tuco, clearly you are much more knowledgeable than I am about developers and scanning and such. I used to have a darkroom but gave it up in the late 1970's because I enjoyed taking pictures more than playing with chemicals in the dark. I've been shooting Tri-X since the 1960's and all I can say is that generally when I underexpose a bit I like the results better. I used to shoot a fair amount of Plus-X and Panatonic-X too and I always liked them best at box speed. I've had several friends over the years come to the same conclusions. One guy habitually shot his Tri-X at 200 ASA and then developed it to spec for 400 in Microdol. Anyway, the next time I shoot Gold 200 I will take titrisol's advice and underexpose it a bit to see if it helps.
02-08-2013, 11:45 PM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by tuco Quote
I've been shooting with a one-degree spot meter for over 20 years and still do today on a regular basis just so you know.
So do I.

I have been using a hand mixed developer that I have been working with for years which is based on Pyro with Kodak Tech-pan rated at ISO 12* on 8X10 and 4X5 format. I can comfortably cover 14 stops - it is possible to go beyond range that but that requires development by inspection, which is a very demanding technique. I only use T-MAX when I really need a higher ISO or when I don't want to waste the remaining stocks of tech-pan I have stockpiled - because there is no other film that is anything like it.

*Kodak technical publications recommend an ISO of 25 - for "pictorial work " screw that.
02-09-2013, 12:11 AM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
So do I.

I have been using a hand mixed developer that I have been working with for years which is based on Pyro with Kodak Tech-pan rated at ISO 12* on 8X10 and 4X5 format. I can comfortably cover 14 stops - it is possible to go beyond range that but that requires development by inspection, which is a very demanding technique. I only use T-MAX when I really need a higher ISO or when I don't want to waste the remaining stocks of tech-pan I have stockpiled - because there is no other film that is anything like it.

*Kodak technical publications recommend an ISO of 25 - for "pictorial work " screw that.
How about posting some scans if you can. I'm sure I'm not the only one who'd be interested in seeing them. I have some Tech Pan in 120 roll in my archives. I've wet printed and scanned them. Interesting but I have a hard time seeing why it would be so coveted on 8x10 sheet film. I guess you'd have to see and compare the results to know.
02-10-2013, 07:19 PM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by wizowel Quote
Ah, that's why faces seem washed out sometimes. I had the same problem with Tri-X until I started underexposing by 1/2 stop. Thanks!
You would actually be OVERexposing by 1/2 stop
Makes colors more vibrant
02-11-2013, 09:49 PM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
...Ohhhh, the pleasures of a staining developer! High sensitivity film...overexpose...underdevelop...build density in the highlights with stain!


Steve

(...is the OP confused enough yet?)
Maybe a little bit I am unfamiliar with some terms, which is expected lol
But it is real photography that can get really great results. I will learn in time
02-11-2013, 10:26 PM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by tuco Quote
How about posting some scans if you can. I'm sure I'm not the only one who'd be interested in seeing them.
Sadly the only kind of scanner that can do my 8X10 work any justice is a 10,000DPI drum scanner, I have had my commercial 8X10 transparency work scanned for clients, however I have never really have any of my Tech-Pan B&W work scanned as I prefer to get reproductions of my platinum prints captured by using a Hasselblad Multishot 200+ Megapixel digital back. The price for an original 13X19 inch platinum print of mine starts around $5000 mark, each print is unique. The reproductions are printed by the Piezography process - the only inkjet printing process that can come close to the archival properties of pure platinum, they don't cost as much as the originals do. I also make my own ph neutral fountain pen ink that I use to sign the matt board with each framed print.
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