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03-10-2013, 11:40 AM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by B Grace Quote
I appreciate Colleen's response here. Good luck to Kodak because I want to continue using Kodak products. I do think the fine art approach for film is a good one but I believe Kodak has work to do if they want to pursue it. There needs to be a viable Pan F type product on offer.
There is a path open for Kodak film as a much smaller, more expensive professional, fine art and enthusiast product.

One reason Kodak film stays in business now (maybe the only reason) is to generate the cash flow necessary to pay the pensions of the thousands of former film company employees.

The reason film will be so much more expensive later is, once the capital already invested (and fully depreciated) in the high volume legacy manufacturing facilities is finally exhausted someone will have to invest NEW capital in new, efficient, low-volume manufacturing facilities.

It won't be easy to find that person, company nor capital.

03-10-2013, 12:14 PM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
There is a path open for Kodak film as a much smaller, more expensive professional, fine art and enthusiast product.

One reason Kodak film stays in business now (maybe the only reason) is to generate the cash flow necessary to pay the pensions of the thousands of former film company employees.

The reason film will be so much more expensive later is, once the capital already invested (and fully depreciated) in the high volume legacy manufacturing facilities is finally exhausted someone will have to invest NEW capital in new, efficient, low-volume manufacturing facilities.

It won't be easy to find that person, company nor capital.
Like Ilford has already done...

Robert Burley's Photos of the Moribund Film Industry - NYTimes.com

QuoteQuote:
With its very specific — and in the case of color, unforgiving — tolerances, film is not something you can produce artisanally, like some cheese in a Williamsburg basement. But black-and-white, especially among fine art photographers, Mr. Burley said, can have a small-scale future, because it is a simpler process that requires only one light-sensitive layer.

“I looked at the Ilford company and thought, they can do this,” he said. “They have 250 employees and they’re making batches of film and paper for two or three days, warehouse it, sell it off and make more. Everything is slower there. They coat at 60 meters a minute, not 300.”
03-10-2013, 12:36 PM   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by B Grace Quote
And one last thing. Make it easier to find still photography films on the Kodak website and then not change the location every few months. As of this morning, to find 35mm film from the main Kodak US website page:

Business Products & Services >> Personal Imaging - Businesses: Professional Photographers & Labs >> KODAK PROFESSIONAL: Products -- Product Information tab >> KODAK PROFESSIONAL Films
So true! Unfortunately the same is true of Fuji. It is very difficult to determine the current status of a product or to find the technical data sheets.


Steve
03-10-2013, 01:08 PM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by boriscleto Quote

"The analog process itself had a certain slow, deliberate — even delicate — quality. Years after he embarked on his project, Mr. Burley said his way of looking at prints by those photographers he admired in his younger days had changed. They seem small and start to feel like lithographs or engravings, he said.

“We can’t help but have an emotional attachment to physical things,” he said. “I haven’t figured that out with digital. I spend so much time managing data now. It’s a completely awful job. You don’t actually get to engage with the pictures along the way. The wonderful thing about an archive was going through it and finding new things and saying, ‘Gee, isn’t that a lovely picture I made.’ Now, we’re just looking at codes.


This simple extracted quotation says everything about all the discussions we have on this Forum. It most definitely explains my attachment to film cameras, even though I'm selling most of them.

At some point I have to recognize that aside from a few favorites they're just not useful, or at least used any more, yet still too valuable to simply display on shelves.

03-10-2013, 01:23 PM   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by B Grace Quote
And one last thing. Make it easier to find still photography films on the Kodak website and then not change the location every few months.
This totally.
When I was looking for a B&W film system to get into I actually failed to find the stuff on the Kodak site entirely so I figured they really were getting out of the market or at least didn't care enough to really bother.
I went with Ilford instead of Kodak for a complete system because their absolutely beautiful website shows a commitment to film and has everything wonderfully laid out with good explanations of what things are in an easy enough way for people who know nothing to use, and links with each product to downloadable complete instructions and technical details for each product. I was able to understand the different types of developers for example, and pick out everything I needed for B&W photography without knowing anything just by reading their site and its attached links.

If someone from Kodak is still paying attention if you want to keep film keep it, if you want to sell the division then do so but with the industry still shrinking and reorganizing to fit artists instead of general consumers there is no room for half way.

I'm thinking Kodak film division will end up merged with someone else one way or another, but its too established a line to just disappear, other film companies would want what they have.
By mid year I hear?

EDIT: Oh, but for film in general what is killing it is that its impossible in most places to cheaply develop color which kills it even if you mail order the film, and for black and white no new people can easily find the door to get in, it takes an honest commitment of time and money to get started.

Last edited by PPPPPP42; 03-10-2013 at 01:31 PM.
03-10-2013, 01:29 PM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by PPPPPP42 Quote
its too established a line to just disappear,
I'm afraid that when movies are no longer shot on film (just a matter of a very few years) Kodak color film will disappear. B&W will have a real challenge supporting itself then - and who would want to buy the capacity? Those with the capital (whether to buy Kodak Film or lend to Kodak to restructure their remainder) would think it better to just let the whole thing go (as it would have been for GM) and rationalize the entire industry in one more venerable product death.
03-10-2013, 01:56 PM   #52
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Hmm, yeah I had kinda forgotten that color film requires massive production to be viable. Seems like with consolidation B&W should be able to hang on though. Just a question of who will buy who to cherry pick the best of the industry that is known to sell, no possibility for a ton of competition or options in a market this small but room for a few at least.
When Kodak announced it was selling out I put my money on Ilford hanging in there since they are all B&W and are viable at the moment. Do they do everything in house or are they buying things from parts of the industry that will go under? If its all in house then they will only get stronger as well known companies like Kodak bow out of the race and their volume increases.

Btw I forgot to add lack of darkroom space to my list of things that makes B&W film very difficult.
03-10-2013, 02:15 PM   #53
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Well I kept one roll of Kodachrome for posterity, one of Plus-X and I suppose I should throw a roll of Tri-X and TMAX in the back, too.

03-10-2013, 04:43 PM   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Well I kept one roll of Kodachrome for posterity, one of Plus-X and I suppose I should throw a roll of Tri-X and TMAX in the back, too.
I have several rolls of Panatomic-X in the fridge.


Steve
03-10-2013, 05:00 PM   #55
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I ordered two rolls of Tri-X 400 B&W today from Adorama. I'll keep buying it while I can.
03-10-2013, 05:15 PM   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
I have several rolls of Panatomic-X in the fridge.


Steve
U-2 Film? Was Gary Powers your uncle?
03-10-2013, 05:44 PM   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
U-2 Film? Was Gary Powers your uncle?
No, mine is not the aero variety. I shot FX back in the mid-1980s souped in Edwal FG-7 and got hooked on the fine grain, excellent tonality, and moderately fast speed (IE 64 in FG-7 1:15). Sometime back, Tuco was good enough to send me a couple of rolls wound off a 100' roll he had. I liked the experience so well that I picked up an additional five rolls off eBay, but unfortunately have not shot them up.


Steve
03-10-2013, 06:10 PM   #58
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Panatomic-X was my favorite in college in the 1960s; although we shot more Tri-X at 1200 (in Accufine) for available light work.
03-10-2013, 06:19 PM   #59
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QuoteOriginally posted by PPPPPP42 Quote
This totally.
When I was looking for a B&W film system to get into I actually failed to find the stuff on the Kodak site entirely so I figured they really were getting out of the market or at least didn't care enough to really bother.
I went with Ilford instead of Kodak for a complete system because their absolutely beautiful website shows a commitment to film and has everything wonderfully laid out with good explanations of what things are in an easy enough way for people who know nothing to use, and links with each product to downloadable complete instructions and technical details for each product. I was able to understand the different types of developers for example, and pick out everything I needed for B&W photography without knowing anything just by reading their site and its attached links.

If someone from Kodak is still paying attention if you want to keep film keep it, if you want to sell the division then do so but with the industry still shrinking and reorganizing to fit artists instead of general consumers there is no room for half way.

I'm thinking Kodak film division will end up merged with someone else one way or another, but its too established a line to just disappear, other film companies would want what they have.
By mid year I hear?

EDIT: Oh, but for film in general what is killing it is that its impossible in most places to cheaply develop color which kills it even if you mail order the film, and for black and white no new people can easily find the door to get in, it takes an honest commitment of time and money to get started.
The price of processing is one thing, my local store just charged me $16.49 for a single roll of fuji velvia 100..... :O I didn't even notice cause I was talking about Kodak film that started this thread..... That's outrageous! My Extar 100 was 8.99 A roll, and they only sell pro- packs of 120 for over $60 a box of T-Max 100...... insane!
03-10-2013, 06:24 PM   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by CDKrenzer Quote
Hi there,

There's no truth to that rumor. Traditional films continue to be an important part of the our product portfolio. We have worked hard to create sustainable models for the traditional portfolios, which will enable us to meet marketplace demands well into the future. If you're looking for places to purchase and/or process Kodak film, our updated our Kodak Film App for the iPhone (https://itunes.apple.com/gb/app/koda...568463694?mt=8) should be available by week's end. This Friday, we're also kicking off our weekly blog featuring photographers who use our films and why they love them (1000 Words Blog | A Thousand Words is a place for stories from the people of Kodak. We love what we do, and we want to share our stories about imaging and its power to influence our world.)

Colleen Krenzer
PR for Kodak's Professional Film Group
I thank you for responding to my Thread on here. I will pass this on but I do suggest you tell your sales team otherwise, at least locally here in Rochester due to a few saying otherwise. Either way I am happy to know Kodak plans on providing traditional film for us artists and your traditional consumers as well as any new film users you may find. This is in fact why I posted this, to find facts and information so that others and I could plan accordingly. I thank you again! Dave L.
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