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07-02-2013, 03:24 PM   #1
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1st colour roll...white balance all over the place?

Hey guys! So i developed my first colour roll...fuji. I love the result- its not as flat as my bw that i processed earlier. Its with a different developer too, this was with blacks.
Anyway, while i love the result, a couple things stood out :

Pic 1-3 shows the range of white balance...was there a white balance setting on my k1000? or how do I deal with this? Or was this something to be dealt with in the dark room? In some cases my pictures were greenish, in some cases they were reddish. Completely weird. I have to say that the lenses may have been different, in each picture, but i am not 100% sure.

Picture 4-5 shows an even more confusing situation, how did my cat picture turn this way? They were taken one after another...most likely with the same lens. Any opinion on what went wrong would be helpful

Pic 1




Pic 2




Pic 3




Pic 4



Pic 5



07-02-2013, 03:50 PM   #2
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Hi D4rknezz,

Was it colour print or slide film?

A brief guide to quite a complicated subject:
Film cameras don't care about white balance, the film on the other hand is manufactured with a specific 'colour temperature' in mind, mostly either 'daylight' (self explanatory) or 'Tungsten' (typical domestic indoor 'bulb' lighting). The choice for correcting it for prints is in the darkroom by using colour filters in the enlarger to compensate - or more recently, on a computer when scanning the negative. Slide film can be corrected by using filters to compensate on the camera during exposure, or when scanning. Corrections with filters during exposure (for daylight film) are blue filters for tungsten and magenta filters for fluorescent, correcting when scanning is much more convenient.

The colour of 'daylight' also changes throughout the day, appearing warmer at dawn and dusk and 'cooler' around noon.

From your shots, #1 has been taken in mostly tungsten lighting (orange cast), #2 looks like tungsten mixed with more daylight, #3 looks like mixed lighting (usual in shopping malls), possibly a bit of fluorescent (usually leads to a greenish colour cast).

The colour of 'daylight' also changes throughout the day, appearing warmer at dawn and dusk and 'cooler' around noon.

Regards,

John.
07-02-2013, 04:00 PM   #3
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Pic 2 looks like it may have been underexposed a little, and the developer (actually during the printing or scanning process) maybe tried to compensate. I'm judging based on seeing some color artifacts in the subject's hair.

I think that happened in Pic 4 too, but by a much greater margin.

Edit: In Pic 4, I also see some multiple light reflections in the cat's eyes, maybe due to a slow shutter speed and/or motion blur. The difference in exposure should have been obvious.
07-02-2013, 04:09 PM   #4
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HI Johnha,

it ...was err..colour print? I think. I am not aware of slide film.
I looked it up, and got an entry for reversal film on wikipedia - but it doesnt tell me whether what makes it a slide film is the development process, a special film roll, or a special camera. Could you elaborate on this ? Is it something I can go to my developer and tell them to develop this as a slide instead of as a colour?

Your explanation on the white balance make sense - and it finally made clear of the purpose for the 3 filter glasses that came with my helios a long time ago. Since none of my glass comes with these now, and unless i gel my flashes, i guess its correcting it in the scan then for me!

Would you know what could possibly have happened to picture 4? It was taken right before picture 5...



QuoteOriginally posted by johnha Quote
Hi D4rknezz,

Was it colour print or slide film?

A brief guide to quite a complicated subject:
Film cameras don't care about white balance, the film on the other hand is manufactured with a specific 'colour temperature' in mind, mostly either 'daylight' (self explanatory) or 'Tungsten' (typical domestic indoor 'bulb' lighting). The choice for correcting it for prints is in the darkroom by using colour filters in the enlarger to compensate - or more recently, on a computer when scanning the negative. Slide film can be corrected by using filters to compensate on the camera during exposure, or when scanning. Corrections with filters during exposure (for daylight film) are blue filters for tungsten and magenta filters for fluorescent, correcting when scanning is much more convenient.

The colour of 'daylight' also changes throughout the day, appearing warmer at dawn and dusk and 'cooler' around noon.

From your shots, #1 has been taken in mostly tungsten lighting (orange cast), #2 looks like tungsten mixed with more daylight, #3 looks like mixed lighting (usual in shopping malls), possibly a bit of fluorescent (usually leads to a greenish colour cast).

The colour of 'daylight' also changes throughout the day, appearing warmer at dawn and dusk and 'cooler' around noon.

Regards,

John.


07-02-2013, 04:13 PM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tanzer Quote
Pic 2 looks like it may have been underexposed a little, and the developer (actually during the printing or scanning process) maybe tried to compensate. I'm judging based on seeing some color artifacts in the subject's hair.

I think that happened in Pic 4 too, but by a much greater margin.

Edit: In Pic 4, I also see some multiple light reflections in the cat's eyes, maybe due to a slow shutter speed and/or motion blur. The difference in exposure should have been obvious.
Hi tanzer, when you say that the developer tried to compensate during scanning - do you mean what i understand it today in digital term : he scanned it, and then put it through photoshop and raised the curve for more exposure? As in , can i give the developer an instruction to give me untouched raw, and I'll do my own post?

Or is it a more...basic level , one which can't be reversed? As in, whatever blue I see in that picture 4 right now, is in the negative?
07-02-2013, 04:40 PM - 1 Like   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by D4rknezz Quote
Hi tanzer, when you say that the developer tried to compensate during scanning - do you mean what i understand it today in digital term : he scanned it, and then put it through photoshop and raised the curve for more exposure? As in , can i give the developer an instruction to give me untouched raw, and I'll do my own post?

Or is it a more...basic level , one which can't be reversed? As in, whatever blue I see in that picture 4 right now, is in the negative?
Well he probably didn't run it through Photoshop, per se. But the scanner is controlled through some software that will try to adjust things automatically. You might be able to ask the processor to not apply exposure compensation. Of course you would then need to adjust this yourself.

I suspect that the negatives will have some of the problem "baked in", since it was an exposure problem to begin with. At least, that's what I think is the cause of the problem. If you look at your negative for Pic4 closely, it will probably appear a little red (since it is negative film).
07-02-2013, 04:44 PM - 1 Like   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by D4rknezz Quote
HI Johnha,

it ...was err..colour print? I think. I am not aware of slide film.
I looked it up, and got an entry for reversal film on wikipedia - but it doesnt tell me whether what makes it a slide film is the development process, a special film roll, or a special camera. Could you elaborate on this ? Is it something I can go to my developer and tell them to develop this as a slide instead of as a colour?

Your explanation on the white balance make sense - and it finally made clear of the purpose for the 3 filter glasses that came with my helios a long time ago. Since none of my glass comes with these now, and unless i gel my flashes, i guess its correcting it in the scan then for me!

Would you know what could possibly have happened to picture 4? It was taken right before picture 5...

Hi D4rknezz - sorry I jumped ahead a bit:
There are two general types of film, negative (print) and positive (variously called slide, trannie, reversal or chrome). Print film (and its development) creates negatives (dark is light, light is dark etc.) so that when printed (projected through an enlarger onto negative paper) the process is reversed and the print is then a positive (two negatives make a positive...). Positive film (and its development) creates a positive image on the film that went through the camera - so it can be projected onto a screen using a slide projector.

It's the film type AND development that determine whether you get 'negatives' or 'slides' (the development processes are different), colour print film is usually a 'C41' process, and slide usually 'E6' - which should be marked on the film or box. In order to shoot slides you need a slide film and suitable processing - any film camera is fine.

Black and white film is almost always negative (print) type, the manufacturer specifies various suitable developers (which are different to both C41 & E6). Colour filters are often used with black and white to change the relative contrast of colours in the image - these are often red, blue, yellow or orange and this might have been the purpose of the filters you had with your Helios lens.

Some black & white film (Ilford XP2 Super, Kodak T400CN) are designed to be processed in C41 chemicals (so you could get them processed in a 1hr minilab for convenience).

John.

Last edited by johnha; 07-02-2013 at 04:45 PM. Reason: Minor tweak
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