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12-10-2013, 08:32 AM   #16
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Some overblown concerns for home users, that dump other (more noxious) chemicals in their drains every day
Unfortunately, in the era of the hyper information, common sense is a rare commodity .

QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
And what might those be???


Steve


12-10-2013, 09:02 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by titrisol Quote
Some overblown concerns for home users, that dump other (more noxious) chemicals in their drains every day
Your location is noted.

QuoteOriginally posted by titrisol Quote
Unfortunately, in the era of the hyper information, common sense is a rare commodity .
It will stay rare if those who possess it are unwilling to share it
(e.g. by editing Wikis that they consider to be misleading.)
12-10-2013, 11:20 AM - 1 Like   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by lytrytyr Quote
It will stay rare if those who possess it are unwilling to share it
(e.g. by editing Wikis that they consider to be misleading.)
Or non-substantiated as in the case of the linked entry.

I will leave the Wiki editing to those who have a burning interest in correcting the Internet and who also have first hand and reliable expertise to properly do so.

I am curious...Why do you (lytrytyr) bother posting a comment disparaging film use on the film topics? Also, it occurred to me that your original question,

QuoteQuote:
So how do you alleviate their concern about the effect of the chemicals on their environment?
remains unanswered.

I guess the most constructive approach would be to place the chemical contamination issue in perspective with the broader aspect of a person's chemical footprint. I would also compare and contrast to the environmental impact of various other art media, say for example, oil painting. As many of us know, oil painting is detrimental in the following ways:
  • The solvents (turpentine and such) are toxic and potential carcinogens*
  • The pigments themselves are often based on toxic compounds
  • The pigment tubes are lead and present an environmental hazard if discarded in a landfill or carelessly in a roadside ditch
  • Land used for cultivation of cotton (canvas) and Flax (linseed oil) could be better left fallow to reduce short-term cycling of greenhouse gasses
  • Mining activities for pigment minerals are bad too
  • Brushes are usually made of animal-based materials, many of which are harvested from animals in inhumane settings.
  • Discarded painted canvases (ugly paintings) are a landfill burden
And so on...


Steve


* Note that everything is a potential carcinogen unless proved otherwise...

Last edited by stevebrot; 12-10-2013 at 12:12 PM.
12-10-2013, 11:43 AM   #19
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Fixer is cheap, dump it after each use, so that the amount of silver is minimal
Developer, use Vitamin C and Phenidone.... no hazard in there

12-10-2013, 11:57 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by titrisol Quote
Fixer is cheap, dump it after each use
It ain't that cheap. I like to get 7 or 8 films out of a 500ml batch.
12-10-2013, 12:16 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
I am curious...Why do you (lytrytyr) bother posting a comment disparaging film use on the film topics?
Say what?

I am not posting a comment disparaging film use.

The original post discussed teaching "others, especially college age"
about how to "operate" a darkroom,
"to take the fear of the mystical process out of the equation".

I am asking how one alleviates the concerns of students,
which will be raised by access to sources such as the Wiki,
about the environmental impact of darkroom "operation".

Addressing those concerns is an essential part
of taking "the fear of the mystical process out of the equation".
12-10-2013, 12:20 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by lytrytyr Quote
Addressing those concerns is an essential part
of taking "the fear of the mystical process out of the equation".
Are you satisfied with my answer? To be honest, I don't see the environmental concern to be much different that teaching one's children how to do a load of laundry.


Steve
12-10-2013, 01:09 PM - 1 Like   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
To be quite honest, a home darkroom for B&W* present less risk than the witches brew of cleaning supplies, pharmaceuticals, dietary supplements, cosmetics, and partially processed food (feces) that constitute normal household sewage
This is a masterpiece of understatement. I always chuckle to myself when I hear people say how dangerous it must be for me to process / print in my black & white darkroom on an occasional basis. I mean -- I'm a card-carrying Socialist and strong advocate of environmentalist causes, but even I know that's absurd.

12-10-2013, 02:08 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
Are you satisfied with my answer?
If we want to encourage new generations of film users, the question is rather:
Will they be satisfied with what we can tell them?

As long as organizations such as Firstcall Photographic write things like
". . . chromogenic processes, which waste greater quantities of toxic dyes into the environment"
(http://www.firstcall-photographic.co.uk/userfiles/file/ilfochrome.pdf),
there'll be a lot of damage control that needs to be done.
12-10-2013, 02:27 PM   #25
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I love using film, but the problem is that scanning is extremely difficult and expensive. Proper colour balance from a scanned negative seems to be extremely rare. 35mm can't get close to even my phone camera's resolution once it's been through my V500, and the only solution would be to spend thousands on a better scanner. I can't afford that kind of money for digital photography and I can't afford it for film either.

Having said all that, I will keep using film because I enjoy it, but I can't forsee myself convincing anyone else to use it.
12-10-2013, 02:37 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by lytrytyr Quote
As long as organizations such as Firstcall Photographic write things like
". . . chromogenic processes, which waste greater quantities of toxic dyes into the environment"
(http://www.firstcall-photographic.co...ilfochrome.pdf),
there'll be a lot of damage control that needs to be done.
Strange reference. Ilfochrome has been out of production for a couple of years and Type-R chromogenic materials for even longer, although I suspect the toxicity concerns are same for C-prints. I guess you could point anyone interested to this section of the exhaustive post on PhotoNet regarding color darkroom myths:

Color processing myths dispelled - photo.net


Steve

Last edited by stevebrot; 12-10-2013 at 07:08 PM.
12-10-2013, 03:58 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by Jonathan Mac Quote
I love using film, but the problem is that scanning is extremely difficult and expensive. Proper colour balance from a scanned negative seems to be extremely rare. 35mm can't get close to even my phone camera's resolution once it's been through my V500, and the only solution would be to spend thousands on a better scanner. I can't afford that kind of money for digital photography and I can't afford it for film either.

Having said all that, I will keep using film because I enjoy it, but I can't forsee myself convincing anyone else to use it.

Resolution isn't everything. If you want more get a MF camera and you will get more resolution out of your scanner. I found my v700 to be pretty good with colours, requiring only minimal corrections.

I shoot 35mm for the gritty look, MF if I want it sharp. I got 1 of my coworkers who is avid digital shooter to buy a hasselblad 500cm with 80mm lens. Now he wants additional back and 50mm lens for it. And he only had it for 3 weeks.

I didn't force him, I made him want it. How? By taking better photos and improving. In the last 6 months I stopped reading all the technicalities of photography and focus on the art side. I realised the technical side wasn't doing me any any favours and helping me make any better photos.

It is a very underhanded tactic, since it's camera neutral, but film does have a quality which lands itself to it.

Now I'm working on another coworker. Well, in really it is just showing him my photos. He's big on panoramas and HDR. Things that I think don't lend itself to better photos. So I think he will be tough nut to crack. First I need to show him that primes and all mighty standard focal length is the best
12-10-2013, 05:22 PM   #28
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I would love to shoot slide film but no one does E-6 around here.
12-10-2013, 07:09 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nuff Quote
In the last 6 months I stopped reading all the technicalities of photography and focus on the art side.
Yep...do the art and let it drive the tech.


Steve
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