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12-21-2013, 01:19 PM   #1
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For those that have an interest in film:


The Agenda usually presents Current Events in the political sense, but I thought this was worth sharing here.

12-21-2013, 01:59 PM   #2
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There is no arguing that film is no longer the media of choice for photography, but I don't think its dead and gone. The typical argument that follows is your standard technical ones, but personally, I just enjoy using it. I like the process and complexity of it, and really enjoy the suspense.

Where I think this is going is that digital photography is going to result in film being seen as a craft again - a very specialized and somewhat backwards craft, but a genuine craft.
12-21-2013, 02:26 PM   #3
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Obviously a narrow minded uninformed video. Clueless about film use and results from it just to put it mildly.
12-21-2013, 02:46 PM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by LesDMess Quote
Obviously a narrow minded uninformed video. Clueless about film use and results from it just to put it mildly.
I wouldnt go so far as to say that. Mr. Burley has plenty of history: Robert Burley - Graduate - Ryerson University

But then maybe the white towers of academia dont accept "The impossible project" or Ferrania as viable commercial forms.



12-21-2013, 03:03 PM - 2 Likes   #5
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I've read that [EDIT: some] elementary schools in the USA no longer teach Cursive handwriting. That doesn't mean our digital overlords will make Bic pens obsolete - just that forming pleasantly attractive letters with ink on paper will return to an art form reserved for the few, much as it was before near universal literacy in the West.

Same can be said for the use of film in photography. There is an emerging craft printing enclave in the arts district in St. Louis - I'd say that speaks volumes about what is coming.

Last edited by monochrome; 12-21-2013 at 03:58 PM.
12-21-2013, 03:49 PM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
I've read that elementary schools in the USA no longer teach Cursive handwriting. That doesn't mean our digital overlords will make Bic pens obsolete - just that forming pleasantly attractive letters with ink on paper will return to an art form reserved for the few, much as it was before near universal literacy in the West.

Same can be said for the use of film in photography. There is an emerging craft printing enclave in the arts district in St. Louis - I'd say that speaks volumes about what is coming.
Cursive writing is still taught in Waldorf Schools. My daughter started learning it in 4th grade.
12-21-2013, 03:57 PM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mr Bassie Quote
Cursive writing is still taught in Waldorf Schools. My daughter started learning it in 4th grade.
Perhaps I should say some elementary schools.

In my area wealthier suburban districts still do - urban and poorer don't any more. I attended a Country Day school which was a movement 100+ years ago but which has now devolved into just a rich, private preparatory and politically-formative abomination. We live in a pastoral semi-rural community tucked away within the urban landscape (12 miles from the city center), stay pretty much within it, and sent our children to the heterogeneous public schools. Not quite Waldorf, but they received by intention a similar outcome. Of course that was pushing 20 years ago and much has changed since.

I should also note that Walgreen's still sells and develops C-41 Process Kodak film and there are plenty of places to get color film developed locally. We can still mail away B&W Tri-X and TMAX for developing and printing, but no one does traditional 4x6 monochrome prints any more except the artist labs - and they're pretty busy doing pro stuff so they often simply can't take the time.

The smart ones are buying up the machines whenever a Walgreen's, Walmart or Costco stops printing film. It's a 30 minute drive, so it's also a lunch and gallery tour - kind of an entire Saturday (two of them actually).

Last edited by monochrome; 12-21-2013 at 04:07 PM.
12-21-2013, 04:49 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by mattt Quote
pandering to the masses.
Yup. I enjoyed the clip. The title was (purposely) misleading because he wasn't disputing that film is not dead, he is just talking about the end of the film industry as it was. I think more and more of us who are into photography know it's a world where both are valuable and have their strengths and weaknesses, and that analog will live on.

We just need some further technical advancements so we can have cameras that take analog and digital exposures at the same time with a device that develops and scans our film for us while our digital exposures are transferring... We'd pay for that, right?

12-21-2013, 07:54 PM   #9
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Well I guess he called it.. Technicolor Closes Glendale Lab as Film’s Fadeout Continues | Variety
12-21-2013, 08:02 PM   #10
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How does this apply to those who are interested in film in the Pentax film slr discussion?
12-21-2013, 08:45 PM   #11
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You are absolutely right - better move this to Photo industry. A trained photographer using news programs to promote his project is brilliant marketing (and the limited edition print set looks great).

That being said, a film SLR with no film is but a rear lens cover. May the goodwill of the season brighten your day.....
12-21-2013, 09:10 PM   #12
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What an interesting and inspiring interview!
The few images they showed from the book...gonna have to buy that! On another note, I don't think film is dead nor will it ever be. Yes, Kodak, Agfa, Polaroid and others failed to see the change in the industry and perhaps weren't as well positioned as they should have been. At least that's how it looks from my chair.

When I was growing up in the 60's 'the' point and shoot camera/film was Kodak. Brownie, Instamatic, Super 8...and then there was Polaroid. Polaroid was like Apple but before. Twenty years ago I found myself in charge of a rather large training operation; at that time, all the lesson plans were on paper. ALL of the visual materials were overhead transparencies (How many of you teachers remember writing on the thing with a grease pencil to teach an auditorium-sized class?) slides or maybe....VCR tapes. The first thing I did was convert the paper lesson plans to computer and then standardize them. Then over a period of five years I digitized the visuals into Powerpoint and went totally digital by 2000. I remember buying a digital camera for this project, a Kodak, around one point-something MP. All that seems so very old fashioned, now.

In the piece, they compare the demise of film as starting around 2005. Probably about right. They also compared it to the change from horses to automobiles which, they said, took thirty years in comparison. We no longer use horses for transportation except for 'craft' endeavors and in many places, horses (or mules) are used to go where machines cannot go. The horse industry is thiving albeit smaller than a hundred years ago but I doubt that industry will be fading away soon. And neither will film.

The movie production companies would like to go totally digital because production costs are significantly cheaper than printing and developing rolls of film. The other side is the digital technology improves as fast as the digital projectors are installed. Last month's standard of 2k was surpassed by 4k and next year it will be??? How many times can a theater afford to 'upgrade' versus film projectors which have remained pretty much the same for...a while.

Some old classics are simply not available on digital; there's a strong market for these both on the little screen and big screen. No, I do not think film is going to go away. Is it going to get smaller? Yes. Companies that produce it will have to adjust their business plans accordingly. On the other hand, I've read that the digital media they store films on isn't as stable as film. Of course with film, it degrades every time it's used. Nothing is perfect.

I'll end with a comparison to another of my hobbies, ham radio or more correctly, amateur radio. Growing up in the 60's radios had tubes. There used to be a whole lot more amateur operators out there but as technology changes, so has the hobby. Used to be a ham built a lot of his equipment, sometimes from scratch. Now one simply chooses the device, plugs it in and operates. There's very little 'tinkering' as there was back when. Actually, ham radio operators provide a valuable public service during disasters; name any of the hurricanes, tornados or other natural disasters and you'll find that amateur radio operators were right there providing, sometimes the only communications available when the grid goes down. With my modest station I can communicate to anybody (who has a radio) worldwide using a number of different modes from voice to morse code to digital radio teletype or TV modes. Amateur radio has changed a lot from the 60's not only in number but how the technology is employed.

They still use tubes in large audio systems because solid state equipment can't handle the power. And I can personally attest that the audio produced by these 'antiquated' systems using tubes is richer and better sounding. Sort of like film. I can print a photograph on my inkjet using the very best DPI and resolution I have access to and it still looks...different (better) from the same photograph printed on photo paper.
No, I don't think film is going away anytime soon!
12-21-2013, 09:48 PM - 1 Like   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by mattt Quote
That being said, a film SLR with no film is but a rear lens cover. May the goodwill of the season brighten your day.....
That being said a camera with no eye behind it is merely a paperweight.

As a sign of goodwill, here is a tip for your long exposure problems you posted in https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/38-photographic-technique/235922-long-exposure-tip.html. Use a Pentax LX as it doesn't require the viewfinder to be blocked due to stray light and it is the only camera - past or present by any brand, that can aperture priority autoexpose a scene for as long as it takes (or batteries die) while monitoring the scene in realtime and adjusting exposure time accordingly.

This shot of the Hoover Dam using the LX's long autoexposure feature with Kodak Ektar 100 was greater than 30 minutes. Straight up automatic scan with no pre or post anything except copyright.

12-21-2013, 10:47 PM   #14
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That is truly gorgeous, Les!!!
12-22-2013, 08:55 AM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by dubiousone Quote
That is truly gorgeous, Les!!!
Thanks! For as good as the LX is, it still needs someone to point it at the right direction, fiddle with some settings and mash the shutter . . .
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