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05-19-2014, 09:20 PM   #1
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Film loading/winding/slipping problem k1000

Help!
This is my 3rd or 4th roll of film - and the first one that I loaded without it slipping as soon as i close the back cover. The first 3 just slipped out of the little thingies as soon as i started winding it.
I blame it all on my inexperience.

Then this last one - i loaded it all good and well . Shot 5 frames. then it slipped.
Is there a way for me to save this 30 dollar roll + development? >_<

I have 2 more film rolls to go through, and then thats it. I have decided that there is no advantage to shooting film today.

05-19-2014, 10:04 PM   #2
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I think there are two possibilities. Either you're not loading it properly, perhaps not putting the film in far enough, or there's a problem with your camera. I've been using film for two years and before that was very inexperienced and I've never had this happen to me. Perhaps you could take some digital shots of the inside of the camera & how you load the film and post them here so we can check if it looks ok?

The roll you have might be saved if it's slipped. Re-wind it just leaving the leader outside the canister, then you can open the back and load it again. Close it up and, with the lens cap on so no light gets in (might want to set it at f/22 1/1000s too), shoot your five frames plus another few to be sure you're past the shots you already got.

It's a shame you're having trouble as I feel shooting film and using these old cameras is a very worthwhile thing for any photographer to do.
05-19-2014, 11:38 PM   #3
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Are you inserting the edge of the film into the slit in the take-up spool first? Or are you just laying it down on the sprockets and closing the door? The film needs to be engaged with the take-up spool, else it will slip...
05-20-2014, 12:07 AM   #4
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Also, when you load it (leader into slit, sprokets in holes) are you then winding the takeup spool the right way round?

You should wind it counterclockwise (ideally just use the wind lever)



I load my SP1000 (same as a K1000 inside pretty much) as follows:

rotate takeup spool until slit is visible.
place film canister on lefthand side of camera and press down rewind knob.
draw film over to takeup spool and slide leader into slit (I slide it in pretty deep, usually until it's just poking out the opposite side)
slowly wind camera with lever (back still open) until the film is flat on the film plane, and the takeup spool has turned about once.
Close the back, wind on your usual 3 shots until the indicator reads 1.
Usually at this stage I then give the rewind knob a light turn with the arrow to get a little tension onto the film. This way as each shot is wound on I can see the knob turn, letting me know the film hasn't slipped.

Not that it's much of a concern, I've only ever had a couple of rolls slip. And with those it was always on the first shot or so.

(that's not counting some of the later film bodies, with the awful "auto" film winding rollers and other rubbish that never worked right

05-20-2014, 08:34 AM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by hks_kansei Quote
Also, when you load it (leader into slit, sprokets in holes) are you then winding the takeup spool the right way round?


draw film over to takeup spool and slide leader into slit (I slide it in pretty deep, usually until it's just poking out the opposite side)
Thanks everybody!
This may be my problem right here.

I am going to try this later - but I have never inserted till it pokes out the opposite side - in fact - i didn't know it was possible. It seemed to me that the slit only take a few millimeter in. Either something is blocking it inside, or i just never did it properly.

And thanks Jonathan - those first few images i really really wanted. I'll do as you suggested.

Thanks everyone!

In relation to shooting film - I've noticed the few things that made it (to me) a little impractical both for learning and to get that film look in today's world :
- Henry's in canada has discontinued their rolls, this year. last year it was buy their rolls, and they will develop it free. This year, its either fuji or ilford, and 15 dollar development fee or something.
- Total cost for rolls + development = 22-25 dollars.
- Additional cost to move to a CD, i think.
- possibly additional cost to get high resolution images (which defeats the purpose of having a full frame film camera, when you get scans at 72 dpi)
- Film development today isn't like the old day where I can mark areas to be dodged and burned. If i want more dodging and more burning - i'll do it in post after the scan - which makes the whole thing more digital anyway. The two rolls that I've developed so far came out flat - severely needing more work in the darkroom, or digital darkroom.

I think the only way I can fix all issues i have with film shooting is learning to develop my own film. I don't know the investment related to it (time/money/education), and i am a little worried about chemical handlings
05-20-2014, 01:13 PM   #6
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The sprockets must be engaged, both top and bottom. They are what drives the film transport, not the take-up spool. Wind once before closing the back. There should be no slack across the film gate and the sprockets should be engaged, then close the back and wind to the #1 position.


Steve
05-20-2014, 01:47 PM   #7
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Developing film can be expensive in some areas. I suggest you look for a cheaper local place or a service to send it away. If you're shooting black and white, then you can do it yourself at home very cheaply and it's easy. I got my B&W development kit for a grand total of €90, including chemicals.
05-20-2014, 04:49 PM   #8
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As for worry about handling the chemicals, as long as you don't get them in your eyes, or drink it, it's fine.

You probably use equally dangerous stuff when cleaning the house.

05-21-2014, 10:35 AM   #9
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Thanks! I'll look into bw development kits
05-24-2014, 09:10 PM   #10
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So a little update , both bad and good news :

Bad news : The next roll i loaded was again wasted - i inserted it as much as i can into the take up spool - however it really won't go all the way through to the other end. It wind up fine, and 5 shoots into the frame, it slipped.
I couldn't save the rolls - as i failed to unwind them just with the leader outside. I ended up unwinding the whole thing back in.

I have now loaded a new roll, and it looks like this one will be okay. But who knows? Maybe something is wrong with my camera.

Good news :
On a different note, the b&w ilford i just developed by henry's just got returned. out of , 27 ? photos, 7 were unusable, 4 of them from trying to load things properly. The other 20 images were gorgeous. I want to cry, lol. I've been shooting digital ever since I learned photography - something about these images - is magical. I am not even sure what it is!

- I am trying to figure it out. Maybe because I don't print my digitals? if i do maybe they all will be magical?
- Maybe because the expressions i got on them are genuine? Because no one is scared or intimidated by a tiny little vintage camera?
- Maybe because they looked good unretouched? Because they are film so I don't really want to retouch them?
- Or maybe because they are so expensive? more than a dollar an image to develop, and for me to start loading a roll to finish developing takes 3 weeks? I mean, the whole culling 500 digital images makes each one of them feels cheap and irrelevant?

Whatever the case is, I've shown the images to a couple other friends who're really familiar with my work, and they agree with how beautiful these ones look.
Sigh. I guess i am stuck with film for a while longer.

I wonder if this is what they mean by the leica look on digital .
05-25-2014, 12:32 AM   #11
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I'm glad to read you're getting some encouraging results. I think you should persevere, but if you've followed all the advice here and the film is still coming off the take-up spool then I really think there's something wrong with your camera. As for the cost, B&W film is much cheaper to develop at home, and very easy, so you might want to look into that.

By the way, there are devices for pulling the film out of a canister even when it's fully wound in, so those films may be salvageable yet:

film retriever | B&H Photo Video

And also, here's the B&W film picture thread for you to add your successes (or even your failures) so that we can all have a look:

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/8-pentax-film-slr-discussion/159796-post-...ilm-shots.html

Last edited by Jonathan Mac; 05-25-2014 at 12:37 AM.
05-25-2014, 02:49 AM   #12
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It seems odd to me that the film keeps slipping.
I've never had a roll slip partway through, only ever on the first shot.

My first thought is that either the film isn't lining up with the sprocket holes, or that perhaps there is a camera issue and either the sprockets or spool aren't winding?

With the camera back open, and no film in it, just wind and fire a few shots, as you wind each shot can you see the sprockets turning clockwise?
Can you also see the takeup spool rotating counterclockwise at the same time?

If either of those isn't turning with the winder there may be a problem with the camera mechanism.


If they are both working fine, would you be able to take photos of how you're loading a roll of film? (use one of the buggered rolls so you don't need to worry)
05-28-2014, 10:33 AM   #13
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thanks guys - i will check the camera out once i finish this next roll.
Next roll i load (prob next month, lol), i will take a quick movie.

I just uploaded a couple pictures on that thread

Cheers
05-28-2014, 07:15 PM   #14
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Have you kept the ruined rools?

Practice with them, after all, there's nothing to lose.

If you've lost the leader in the canister you can either buy a leader retriever, or just use a bottle opener to take the top off the canister and pull the leader out.
Then just press the top back down (it can be tricky)

If you do this in light the film will of course be fogged, and useless, if you have a dark-bag the roll should still work fine.
I actually use that method when I re-spool films to shoot redscale occationally.
05-29-2014, 10:30 AM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by hks_kansei Quote
Have you kept the ruined rools?

Practice with them, after all, there's nothing to lose.
Good advice. When I have taught newbies, I always have them practice in the light on the living room couch, first with eyes open and then with eyes closed.


Steve
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